Rape punishments

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by Hae-Gi, Sep 14, 2008.

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  1. Hae-Gi

    Hae-Gi Banned Member

    I woke up this early morning and couldn't keep sleeping after starting to think about how, a few days ago, a man was sentenced to two and a half years in prison for just dumping mouldy hash on a tip, while, a couple days later, another man was sentenced to two years in prison for rape. Somehow it is worse to get rid of hash, that no one will even end up using, than ruining someone's life. It's always the same thing; year after year I powerlessly read or hear how someone has gotten his or her life ruined by rape, and, even if it was a child that was raped, the perpetrator never gets more than six years in prison (here in Sweden). Then I keep on reading and read about how some drug smugglers of such a relatively harmless drug as cannabis or cat get up to twelve years in prison (it may be "just" ten; not entirely sure). Or maybe I read about some embezzler that gets more years in prison than a rapist could ever get, or maybe it's just someone that has been withholding tax money and gets a harsher punishment than that of someone who has performed what is seen as a "milder" form of rape, if the word "mild" can even be applied to rape. It infuriates me and makes my blood boil with hatred towards my country, and the whole world for that matter. Rapists should be tortured to death in the most prolonged way possible, yet people generally do not even seem to care much at all. I have never heard of any country where rape is considered even just below murder, despite that murder is perfectly justified, often, and should cause the killer to get a bloody medal. That is, I have never heard of a country where rape leads to severe punishments, outside of those countries where women culturally are seen as properties of men, and as damaged goods when they have been raped (NOT forgetting all the men out there that are raped by both men AND women). Is there even ONE country in this world where rape is considered one of the very harshest acts? And this with empathy for the victim, not because the victim now is less worth for someone else. Is there anyone here who agrees that dumping mouldy hash is worse than raping someone? If not, why isn't the law changed? Is it simply so that basically all people who become politicians in this world are cruel and lacking in empathy?
  2. Petal

    Petal SF dreamer Staff Member Safety & Support SF Supporter

    I am not completely sure but I have heard that in Egypt a rapist will get tortured and killed for his crime. Being a victim of rape myself, I think that is the right punishment. Here in Ireland there was a well publicized case where a man was found guilty of breaking in entry to a young woman's home and raped her and got only 2 years probation:mad: The punishments for rape are a total disgrace.
  3. Hae-Gi

    Hae-Gi Banned Member

    Egypt is one of those countries where women culturally are seen as property of men, unfortunately. Pakistan, for instance, apparently has very harsh punishments, as well, but it's the same with that country.
  4. The_8th_Wonder

    The_8th_Wonder senior Member

    A countries equality is based on their punishments. This is why the US and Europe are superior to Australia in my mind. Torture is not the right system of punishment in any situation. I see no reason why somebody should not regret commenting rape with life in prison. The ultimate punishment would be when to punish the person who got raped to carry the baby should they get pregnant when they don't want to. That's another issue thought so I'll try to stay on topic... Instead of using the "An eye for an eye" punishments a great man by the name of Gandhi said "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Gandhi thought that god will punish you for your actions and here on Earth there is only so much we can do. I believe this entirely even though I am not very religious.
  5. wheresmysheep

    wheresmysheep Staff Alumni

    I think they should be tattooed on their face and hands so every where they go people will know what they done. that is unless they are tortured to death
  6. Arcturus

    Arcturus Active Member

    (Note that any observations/suggestions are made in the context of the United States justice system. Your countries justice may work differently, and I respect this. Also note that this post is overwhelmingly long, and you can feel free to skip sections where it grows redundant.)

    Let me start with two observations from the real world.

    I knew a girl once who was raped when she was 12. The guy who did it was caught and convicted. Due to a lack of "sexual predator programs" available in the state of Wisconsin, he got 1 and a half years in prison, and had to attend therapy.

    A young adult in my high school class had consensual sex with a girl one year younger than him (18 vs 17), and ended up being sentenced to 20 years in state prison.

    Now, when looking at these punishments as far as how appropriate they are to the crimes committed, most people can obviously see two problems: real rapists can go free easily, and "statutory rapists" get charged harshly. How can we solve these problems? The first step would be to create real, effective, yet humane, punishments for real sexual predators.

    Now, as it happens, I wrote a paper for a literature course once about my proposed punishment for sexual predators. I believe that because of the nature of sexual predation, that a predator who can be proved to definitely be guilty (beyond even the normal criteria, perhaps) should be given a choice between capital punishment and living in a sort of "society" made up entirely by other sexual predators. The convicted rapists could have limited freedoms, controlled access to various sources of information/communication, and a limited number of jobs within the society to choose from (if they want to).

    My reasoning is thus: Sexual predators, because of the nature of their crimes, cannot be rehabilitated into normal society. In fact, a somewhat recent study revealed something interesting about a program in the United States used to "rehabilitate" rapists: those who went through the program (which is commonly accepted as the BEST rehab program for sexual predators) had a slightly HIGHER re-offense rate than those who didn't. Keeping in mind the goals of a civilized society, what then can we do to ensure humane treatment of sexual predators, while still keeping the general population's safety as our primary goal?

    In addition, this isolated society could produce various products, or provide various services at (arguably) a lower cost, thus helping consumers in the nation it is implemented.

    Of course, this method of punishment would have to be carefully examined on a case-by-base basis for it's appropriateness. There are some rapists who might be turned into normal citizens again, and it would become important to have competent judges who can tell the difference between a normal criminal and a sadist.

    Now, onto the second aspect of the two-fold problem: statutory rape is being punished more and more harshly. It is a firm belief of mine that the United States justice system focuses too much on the letter of the law, and not the intent. The problem is, politicians, activists, etc, will spot a problem in society, and attempt to remedy it with a law. Once the law is written, however, judges do nothing to interpret the intent, and instead only look at exactly how the law is written. This can lead to obvious problems.

    What is the intent of statutory rape laws? My first thought is that statutory rape became a crime in order to prevent pedophiles from having "consensual" sex with young children, and not being charged with anything. However, the law was set up carelessly, and now, the letter of the law states that any (male) over the age of 18 who has sex with anyone under the age of 18 is guilty of statutory rape, period (note: females do not usually get charged with statutory rape, they usually get lesser, more general charges, such as "soliciting sex from a minor" etc.). Now, take into consideration the fact that different judges view punishment very differently, and it is no wonder that such obvious discrepancies can occur.

    My proposed solution would be to re-write statutory rape in a way that it reflects more upon the intent of the law. Change the law to make it so that legal adults are granted a certain % of their age in age discrepancies. Ie: If you could legally have sex with somebody within, say, 15% of your age, this would allow an 18 year old to have sex legally with someone 2.7 years younger than him (which would end up being a little over 15 years old), and would allow a 20 year old to have potential sex with someone who is 17 years old. I'm not saying these exact figures would be the best formula necessarily, but you get my idea. In addition, there would be (if I was able to re-write) a certain "Age of responsibility," say, 13-14. Anybody soliciting sex from somebody under this age would be given harsher punishments. Furthermore, the general punishment bracket would be less severe for sex that is claimed to be consensual, but is still not legally considered acceptable.

    My reasoning is that people should have a little leeway when choosing a potential, consensual sexual partner. With just one mandatory cutoff, you run into problems like that of my former classmate (and yes, that is a real story - to make things worse, he is now registered, permanently, as a child sexual offender). The intent of statutory rape was to make sure that one person is not at an emotional/intellectual advantage over the other person, and I think there are certain age discrepancies which would be considered acceptable when considering this.

    Again, sorry for the overwhelmingly long post, I just have very strong opinions about this. :D (If anybody actually managed to read the whole thing, I <3 you.)
  7. HappyAZaClaM

    HappyAZaClaM Guest

    yikes... a serious can of worms. oh dear. I better take a pass.
    I see you all have it well in hand. which is more than we can say for
    the justice system of about any country in the world anywhere.
  8. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    I can only hope some form of coping with this sort of thing eventually comes along other than festering hate and rage. From someone who knows, hatred will destroy you. It isn't the rape that makes you a victim 20 years later. It's your own inability to let go of the anger.

    We only have so many ways that we can deal with a rapist and inhumane punishments are not on the menu.

    While I would certainly agree that two years is not enough time for rape, that seems to me to be an extreme exception to the rule. As far as I know, where I live, convicted rapists routinely have the book (and the desk) thrown at them.

    My advice to victims would be not to dwell on the punishments but instead, focus on healing yourself. Your hatred and your anger is not hurting the rapist. It's hurting you.

    I've seen it before. You will not find healing in the knowledge that your attacker meets "justice" unless you are willing to let go of your anger. You will just let that hate keep eating you up and it will eventually become all you know. And it won't be restricted to just bad people. You will find yourself a very unpleasant person. You will become what you hate without realizing it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2008
  9. darkplace

    darkplace Well-Known Member

    they should die. period.
  10. Hae-Gi

    Hae-Gi Banned Member

    This type of reasoning also angers me. :mad: No mercy for the merciless. Gandhi's words that an eye for an eye leaves the world blind reeks with naivety and lack of perspective.

    Letting go of anger and hatred against people like rapists means you have been defeated. As long as you have your hatred, at least you have a friend in that. A friend that will drain you of your energy, but maybe one which may help you in delivering vengeance.

    I have never been raped but it is my natural duty to never even slightly change my mind on this. Everybody with high morality should look at it the way I do. Rapists are lesser than a crushed fly.
  11. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    I noticed.
  12. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    Like I said, what you'll have is a "friend" that'll eat you up like a cancer. That's a cliche, I know, but that's because it's true. Just read your own posts objectively. If you're not a rape victim yourself, I don't know what you're angry about but you're clearly carrying some kind of rage around for something.

    As I said, I'm telling you because I know. I was never raped but I had my fair share of injustices inflicted upon me during my childhood. And I carried that anger around with me for a very long time. I refused to let it go. I know exactly what it's like. I used to have the revenge fantasies all the time.

    But you know what happened? Eventually, I found that I didn't like the person I was becoming. I didn't just hate those people who hurt me. I started hating people who had never done anything to me and people who just upset me. They didn't have to do much. I gave myself completely over to being revenge-minded. Everybody who ever pissed me off was going to pay in some way or another. I was angry all the time. For no reason. I woke up angry. When I went to bed, I couldn't sleep because I was so wound up. So I laid there and plotted my "sweet" revenge on those who deserved it and it made me angrier and I still couldn't sleep.

    It didn't just drain my energy. It turned me into an ugly, nasty person who alienated himself from the world because feeding my anger was more important than anything else. If you want to keep anger as a friend, it will probably eventually be your only friend and you'll eventually find that you don't like the company you keep.

    Perhaps. But that's why we have a justice system. It isn't flawless. Some people are punished way more than they should be and some aren't punished enough. Victims are not dispassionate enough to dispense justice fairly. Some victims would have just about anyone punished just for the sake of seeing someone pay for the crime. Victims are too close to the crimes to be objective, fair and humane.

    At any rate, I find nothing moral in reducing any human being to the equivalent of a crushed fly. To me, that says you know (fundamentally) that what you're talking about is morally wrong. You have to try and imagine the person isn't a human being in order to feel OK with what you're saying.

    I notice this often. Such people are often called animals and other such. Not simply because they sometimes behave like animals (they do but that's beside the point) but because in these fantasies of torturing and murdering them, you're behaving as badly as they are. Unless you can believe they aren't human. If you can dehumanize them, you don't feel like you're doing the same thing they did. It isn't murder if they aren't human, right?

    The simple truth is this - If you've been a victim (of anything), nothing will ever satisfy you until you let go of the anger. That may not be what victims want to hear but the truth is often a bitter pill. And that's not just me talking. I came to that conclusion myself but wiser men (and women) than myself have come to the same conclusion.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2008
  13. Hae-Gi

    Hae-Gi Banned Member

    How can I be so unempathic that I do not carry this rage? What difference does it make that me myself hasn't been raped? I should be just as angry, anyway... well, not let it take over as much, though, of course, since my life isn't already ruined.

    Sounds like you were a lot like me, then. The difference, however, is that I keep controlling my anger, all the time, so that it will not devour me.

    I agree with this, actually, but this does not apply to all victims. As long as some similar perpetrator is punished, though...

    I never said they are the equivalent of a crushed fly; I said they are lesser than a crushed fly. So much lesser. You're very wrong with your assumption; they are humans, alright. Lesser humans, but still humans. I don't see why I have to see them as something other than human to want to torture them to death in the most extreme way possible... this is a very odd comment. Don't you see that it'd be fun? The more fear I'd see in their eyes, the more fun it'd be. They would nothing but deserve everything they'd get.

    Better not to be satisfied than to be defeated. Of course, if it's something minor, like a company going bankrupt before you've got the order you've paid beforehand, and you not getting anything back from the state, since the banks are prioritised before you, then it's probably better if you let go of your anger.
  14. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    Hey. Just trying to give you some good advice. Take it or leave it. Negativity breeds negativity. People either want to heal or they want to go on hurting.
  15. Hae-Gi

    Hae-Gi Banned Member

    I know you think you're giving good advice, and I do understand how you look at it, but I could never look at it the same way. Actually, you're forgetting that I'm trying to give good advice, as well.
  16. InnerStrength

    InnerStrength Well-Known Member

    There is no justifiable reason for "Hatred." It is a natural human response, especially to the victim, and within the victim it is completely understandable. Justification is another thing entirely, however. Even if you separate the moral issue from the justification, hate is just a useless emotion.

    Hate means there is a little monster, a creature, inside of someone, capable of reproducing. It's *corrupting.*

    As for the appropriate punishment...that I haven't decided on yet. I've read many studies of psychology, general human behavior, and to make a simple statement on this would be to err.

    However, my ideal scenario would be to stop rape altogether, rather than punish with hate. Well, actually, my ideal scenario would be if rape never existed, and would continue forever in that capacity.
  17. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    Well, if it makes you feel any better, Keith Chester Hill was convicted of only one male rape (out of the 5 that he actually committed) and received 99 years in prison.
  18. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    I don't want to read about this, I hear quite enough about it, and I think it's the worst crime in existence. Rape has a very low incidence of being reported. Higher penalties reduce that rate. If the penalty is death, and you knew the perpetrator [usually the case], you would have to hate him pretty hard to go through with it... Most don't report it anyhow.

    I wouldn't mind killing the guys who did it to the women I know, though...
    Or even better, raping them, THEN killing them.

    An eye for an eye might make the world go blind, but no other woman's being raped by him.
  19. LenaLunacy

    LenaLunacy Well-Known Member

    In some country, i can't remember which one, a rapist gets castrated so he physically can't re offend. I think, as a victim of rape, this is the perfect punishment. It's like torture for him, and safety for any would have been potential victims.
  20. Little_me

    Little_me Well-Known Member

    I agree.
    In Sweden, the punishment for rape is the same as for copyright infringement- 2 years in prison, and the damages are much higher (5-10 times the money) for CI... It's so so sick. I hate our legal system. Here, the rapist/criminal is seen as the victim, not the victim itself.
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