Rebounding from rock bottom?

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Tim., Nov 7, 2009.

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  1. Tim.

    Tim. SF Emoti-King

    I've read several stories of people that have been in some pretty bad places on here. A lot of people have mentioned being homeless and things like that.

    I'm wondering if people that have been in these situations, or something you would describe as 'rock bottom' have noticed that it caused any change in your mental state?

    That's the short version for those that don't want to read the tome that follows.

    To give more detail, I feel kind of dead to the world at the moment. When people ask me how I'm doing, 'not terrible' seems an honest answer. Just this longstanding numb sadness. If that makes any sense.

    One of the ways this plays itself out is that I don't do well at getting stuff done. I don't always get into work, don't return phone calls, don't pay bills, etc. I guess the last one is big, because while my finanical situation isn't spectacular, I could keep myself afloat if I just kept on top of things. But I don't think I've checked my mail for two months even.

    I've felt for awhile that it's inevitable that something really bad results from this... something like bankruptcy and being evicted and on the street or whatnot. Maybe prison if I don't respond to those IRS letters (I don't even owe them money but can't bother myself to fix the situation).

    But I also know that I have all the ability in the world if I could just change my mindset.

    And that's why in the back of my mind, I wonder if having something bad happen like being kicked out on the street would be a good thing. Since I've never really had to worry in my life about having a roof over my head or being able to find something to eat on any particular day, maybe having such truly basic needs as motivation would help.

    But maybe I still wouldn't care and I'm fooling myself thinking that would help.

    And so that's why I want to know what experience others have had.

    Thanks.
     
  2. DS

    DS Account Closed

    Prior to opening my mouth and inserting opinion, do know, I'm not quite stable at this particular moment, so if what i say sounds off in any way, disregard it please. Also, if i say anything that causes pain, do know it is unintentional. Also, forgive my lack or articulation and inability to form rational sentences or express coherent thought.

    Personally, I don't suggest Rock Bottom. Been there. Done that. It's not productive nor is it helpful. I daily see a lot of others there. If you need a fight...that is what Rock Bottom will give you. I suppose it gives a person a reason to fight...as there remain no choices. It can motivate a person to action...

    Noticed that about the answers you give...to whether you are okay. Heart went out/goes out, to you. Didn't want to push...but did/do care.

    I deal with homelessness daily. Deal with folks who need basic needs met and have nowhere to turn. Folks who become so frustrated, for instance at not being able to put food on the table, they start by kicking the dog, then end up kicking loved ones. Not a pretty picture. If you have other options I'd suggest them. If you need help brainstorming...it's one thing i am capable of .

    No passions? A Hobby? Interests? Not enough to sail you through this? Perhaps a forced change...something to spark an interest...in a positive way? Might have to drag yourself to task until some enjoyment kicks in. Not knowing you, it's hard to make suggestions.

    Can you, connect...with another human being. Sometimes a person can get so low, they simply cannot connect. Isolation is about the worse thing ever. Do trust me on this one.

    Is it a lingering profound sadness? Anything in particular set it off, that you are aware of?

    Could you perhaps be desiring a change? Would you feel comfortable just up and starting a new life or would you require a forced change? You mention some of the consequences of not attending to responsibilities/tasks. You are fully aware of the consequences over time. Perhaps that is what you want. Could always choose a change...instead of being backed into a corner. Sorry if I'm not making sense...no sleep. I know what i'm trying to say

    You can up and start over, by choice. Without hitting bottom. You can start a new life. Change of place, people...as long as you don't think the sadness will follow you. Been there. Done that. It can work.

    Chemical imbalance? antidepressants? In this case, hitting bottom likely wouldn't be assistive.

    You know, had you not been there the other day, likely would have been a very very bad outcome. ...thank you.
     
  3. Tim.

    Tim. SF Emoti-King

    Thank you for the thoughtful response.

    I'm not sure what I'm going to do or what positive steps I'm capable of taking. But that motivation to act is what I'm wondering about. I don't know if it will be there or not. Used to think so, not so sure anymore.

    I don't think my reaction would be frustration, or at least not anger. I've never been an angry or violent person in any way.

    As for trying a change instead, I used to think that would work. I've jumped between about four different jobs in the past several years and moved across the country because I thought that might help. I've moved to be around friends and family. I've changed to less demanding jobs. I've joined groups and taken classes to make sure I spend time on my hobbies. Doesn't really change anything. I now figure that it's not my job, it's not the people around me, it's just me.

    But every time I've tried to get help, it really hasn't worked. Just more of the same. Nothing really sets it off. It just is. And it just seems to get worse over time. I kind of hoped that the survival instinct will kickstart my brain a bit where all of that has failed.

    So that's pretty much why asked and I appreciate your insight and experience. I still don't clearly know if it would really help change my mindset or not, but you've given me something to think about. I do hope I can find something to help at some point.
     
  4. DS

    DS Account Closed

    was the cross country move a radical change?
     
  5. ODIECOM

    ODIECOM Well-Known Member

    rock bottom for me hit about 4 times. rock bottom to me was being without home belongings job etc.
    if you are WILLING to pull yourself out of the bottom of the barrel ... yes, there is a mental change. although its not quite the same as the mental state we are in while we are spiraling downwards. for me, the mental state after regaining CONTROL of MYSELF was more positive.

    loss of job can wipe you out mentally. i have been in the place where i was afraid to deal with the creditors, knowing full well i would owe. that would make things tuff.
    you dont have to reach rock bottom to change. you have to sit down figure out what it is you want. only you can make things happen. i know that from experience. its not easy to face what is hiding in those letters. its not easy to face yourself and admit what is wrong. but ... in order to rebuild .. you have to be HONEST with yourself first.

    face that which is bringing you down. i did. it sucks. but ya know what??
    im slowly gaining ground. things ARE working out for me. it didnt crash over nite and wont get fixed over nite either.

    you decide what you want to do and who you want to be.
    its not gunna be easy to rebuild, but it can be done. the question is ...

    WHAT DO YOU WANT ? AND WHAT DO YOU WANT BAD ENOUGH TO WORK ON IT ?
    i wish you the best
    odie
     
  6. Tim.

    Tim. SF Emoti-King

    Thanks for your post, experiences, and honest opinion.

    I guess I just don't know what I want. Or more like I don't know if I really want anything at all. At least not bad enough to do anything about anything.

    Kind of figured being hungry and cold at some point might change that. Not sure it will though, based on what I've seen so far.

    I don't know.
     
  7. perfectempire

    perfectempire Active Member

    This is the point I am at. Great thread. I am following it. Anyone else have advice? Cause I need it too.
     
  8. Stranger1

    Stranger1 Forum Buddy & Antiquities Friend

    My advice is to show up for work everyday and pay your bills.. I have been homeless.. Living in abandoned homes and buildgs.I have lived under highway overpasses andin graveyards..You never know if you are going to eat.. You are always on your guard so you don't get mugged.. I have dumpster dived just to find something to eat..There is no glory in being homeless..I eventually joined the Marine Corps so I would have three meals aday and a roof over my head..So I suggest you start fighting now, don't wait until things get that bad..
     
  9. ODIECOM

    ODIECOM Well-Known Member

    i think mtntim,
    that if you sit and realize that you have purpose in this world, you will start to see yourself in a different way.
    i used to be the same way when i was younger. i didnt know what i wanted, liked, or what i wanted to do.
    its not abnormal to feel that way. alot of us get into a slump in life, sometimes early on. just step out of the boat and see what you are missing. i found alot of things that iam good at and i actually enjoy doing.

    the problem is, when we sit and sit, we get into the dont feel like doing anything mindset. when that happens we can get our self into trouble.
     
  10. DS

    DS Account Closed

    I don't know how to quote your text, so hope you can follow my responses.

    I would guess it to be a matter of brainstorming with someone, to figure out what positive steps you can take. Motivation, this is where other people are critically important. They'll help hold you accountable for following through...that really is what friends are for. For caring enough to be the uncomfortable motivation that leads to those we care about, being truly happy. Friends are willing to be there and physically push you through the actions, while being cursed, until the actions become easier. Friends are not afraid of stepping on toes. Trust me. Recently went through this over a life and death matter.

    I have friends who've left their former lives to follow dreams; farming, cabinetmaking, opening a dive shop in Belize, moving to another country, sailing, etc. I've done something similar. Have you tried anything this radical? Not just a move.

    Mmm...you would need to define for me, getting help.

    We don't just want you to simply survive. Surviving is more like existing. Perhaps something more along the lines of really living...being involved in living as an active participant. I suspect you have a lot to offer. Along the lines of finding at minimum, some drive, and at best, some passion...?. Ha, perhaps meaning... but i think that comes later. For some, life can be so rough just meeting basic survival needs, they are unable to spend a moment of it living...it's purely survival and all consuming.

    I have friends, who if I allowed them to merely think about the type of change needed, it would never happen. They are brilliant and thinkers by nature. For them, getting involved with people, or actively doing something that contributes, is absolutely necessary...and at first they only go through the motions. Otherwise they will just keep thinking...no end to it. I'm watching a young man go through this right now. He is at the brink of hitting bottom. He's been there before but he gets stifled/stuck, can't figure out the proper actions to take prior to hitting bottom. He is brilliant! Could offer this world so much. He sleeps. Wakes up and watches movies, or listens to science podcasts, works on page after page of math problems. Sleeps. That is absolutely it. Nothing more...no little things in between like dishes, chores, visiting, shopping, community involvement., no school or work, however he does take a shower. In the 4 years I've known him he's had a flat affect. Perhaps 5 times, I've actually seen a glint in his eye of hope or some sort of happy-ish, rarely something of a smile. He doesn't come across as sad, no highs or lows, it's more a constant state for him of what appears to me, as melancholy. Ah, this is the son of the man with the felonies. I know a few things that could help him...but what he needs is not within my capacity to help.

    I do hope things get better.
     
  11. Reki

    Reki Well-Known Member

    I think hardships do shape people more than any other kind of experience. I wouldn't want to see you go homeless and am tempted to tell you it isn't the way to go, but honestly I really don't know. I was homeless from time to time as a kid and while I can't say the experience did anything other than give me memories, you do appreciate the little things once you lose them. The situation was out of my hands at the time but it isn't a time I'd like to revisit either now that I control my own life. Hearing someone say it doesn't give you the reassurance of experience though so if you think it will help, and you're sure you can come back, I wouldn't stop you.
     
  12. Tim.

    Tim. SF Emoti-King

    Thanks all for the replies. I don't even know what this thread is for me anymore, whether I'm looking for motivation now or searching for optimism that things may get worse, but will eventually get better. But I appreciate hearing about everyone's experiences and thoughts.

    Intellectually, I totally agree with and understand everything you said in your post. But I just can't make myself really believe that it's worth it.

    I have often wondered if something like joining the Marines would be helpful to me in terms of making a long-term change. Kind of brainwash or teach myself to be more disciplined. I have no interest in the military otherwise, and I'm probably getting too old, but I wonder if something like that could work.

    I think that sitting makes it a little worse over time... it builds on itself. But I've been out and tried things. I've had the good job, the friends, the hobbies. I've joined causes.

    The result is usually the same... I'm never really happy and one day it just isn't worth it.

    I don't know.

    Motivation does seem to be the thing. But I just don't know how to fake it.

    I'm interested in what you think this kid could use for help. Your description doesn't sound so different from what I find myself going through, even if our situations are not exactly the same.

    Yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking in terms of helping me appreciate life more. Find some motivation. I wonder, assuming it did help my mindset for some time, if it would be lasting. Or would I just revert the minute I had things back under control.
     
  13. ODIECOM

    ODIECOM Well-Known Member

    ok,
    my question is ... WHY arnt you happy ?
     
  14. Tim.

    Tim. SF Emoti-King

    I don't know.
     
  15. ODIECOM

    ODIECOM Well-Known Member

    hmmmm,

    interesting. who are you mad at ?
     
  16. Tim.

    Tim. SF Emoti-King

    No one comes to mind.

    Maybe myself.
     
  17. ODIECOM

    ODIECOM Well-Known Member

    well, something is bothering you and only you know what that is.
    may be its time to do some soul searching. be honest with yourself. if your angry read my post on anger. dont give up.
     
  18. DS

    DS Account Closed

    Just a few random thoughts. I have plenty of others.

    You know, I imagine you are quite the capable independent fellow. Not knowing anything about you, I kind of have to second guess things.

    It almost seems you are seeking ways to pull yourself out of this, on your own. Admirable, but i harbor concerns. Also, you can't be expected to know how to fake it...nor can you expect yourself to do it on your own. Again, it's admirable.

    I found one upside to homelessness...it forces one to "connect" with people (usually). That is the only benefit I see to you from that option.

    Doing it alone, sure it can be done, but connecting with others may perhaps provide a more stable solid ground.

    The other thing, when the heat is applied, it may become difficult, but it's really important not to flee, withdraw, or seek an escape. Emotionally connecting with others is really important...it can be a life line. Not because you need them, more because we need those connections to thrive (if that makes any sense). It may take a month of jaw clenching to get through it...but over time, it becomes easier.

    I have more...
     
  19. bluedays

    bluedays Well-Known Member

    This is a really interesting thread, I am just now reading it all and musing over it. I hope it's ok that I jump in.

    When I read your original post & thought it over before reading replies, my first thought was how much I could relate to that feeling. Depression sucks you dry & leaves your range of emotion from flat-affect apathy (i.e. barely surviving enough to even take care of the basic physical needs & not caring about anything at all) to sadness, anguish, anger. "They" say that depression is anger turned inward. I don't know.

    Letting everything slide because you don't care enough to fight to take care of job/bills/whatever is a symptom of that. I call it the "why bothers". I go through that a lot. What's the point? Why fight so hard to do stuff you don't want to do in order to live a life that offers no payback & no reward?

    During the times in my life I've had to shift into crisis mode - i.e. sick parent, being forced to move due to landlord selling house, etc. etc. - I've handled the practical things in the midst. Emotionally I was a wreck from the anxiety, but anxiety & having to kick into functioning hit that "fight or flight" adrenaline we all have, which would at least force me to function & take care of everything / everyone. Then when things calmed again, I'd crash into apathy & misery, barely able to get out of bed (which is how I feel 95% of the time now). I've had fantasies (sick, ain't it?) about being able to scrap it all & go to a homeless shelter, effectively rock bottoming on purpose so I wouldn't have to try to hold on to what I have that is already not bringing me any happiness, and watching what little I love & cherish slip away anyway. I'm sick of looking down the road & not seeing positive endings. I'd rather endgame it myself, one way or the other.

    Also, there's always the movie fantasy of hitting rock bottom, fighting your way out of it once & for all and finding motivation, desire, support & a happy ending in 210 minutes or less complete with DVD outtakes. Those little kid dreams die hard.

    Listen, I have no answers for you because I'm in bad shape... but I thank you for pulling me out of my shell tonight. I wish you peace.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2009
  20. Tim.

    Tim. SF Emoti-King

    Thanks, that post made a lot of sense to me. As near as I can understand it, the 'why bother' mentality is about as close as I can come to explaining my current mental state.

    And as I think about this idea of finding motivation as my world collapses around me, more and more I think you are right that it is only a fantasy created in my mind of what I want to happen and not what would happen. I'm believing more and more that even if I got to a point that could be considered rock bottom and that gave me motivation to fix a few problems, that motivation would leave as soon as the most pressing problems were fixed.

    Thanks for your thoughts.
     
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