Reproductive rights and ugly people ?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by NYJmpMaster, Sep 6, 2013.

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  1. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I just had a brief exchange of messages with somebody very justifiably upset. Less upset perhaps than pissed off. I had to delete a post of theirs as potentially flaming. I will not restore the post because it was in fact inflammatory and not really directed at the original poster both of which make it inappropriate. But since the topic comes up 12x a week on here it is worth mentioning.

    It is said all the time on here how it is fault of parents for having the kid since they were ugly or that the kid is ugly - so they doomed the child to a life of misery . That ugly people should not reproduce and blah blah blah. The response i deleted was replying to somebody that said exactly that - ugly people should not reproduce... the response

    The simple fact is I do not disagree with the reply. Does not make it appropriate but I find i often delete the replies I most agree with here.

    This belief that your personal self worth is determined by your ability to have sex with a person or multiple people that you believe are "attractive" (and even often blatantly claim "I want to have sex with hot women" "I want to get attention of good looking men with jobs and not after just sex" or other really enlightened views -

    If you believe your life value is determined on number of sexual conquests and where they rate on your personal grading scale of 1-10 then yes, you do have issues. It has nothing at all to do with your physical appearance and 100% to do with your bad attitude. The help you need is not in a way to get laid, it is in a therapist to help you reset your personal values.

    Invariably it is always the same thing - I am ugly and I want sex with hot attractive people only. It is your personal value system that is making you unable to find satisfaction and lose all appeal to others interested in a romantic or sexual relationship. If you are so convinced you are ugly then no, you will not put out an image that is attractive to most other people. Your personal lack of confidence and shallow view of the world based on the physical attributes whether it is size of penis or being obese or small chest or too skinny or short or whatever else you think has any value is the issue.

    I really love the added bonus statement "I have even tried dating ugly women" that so often accompanies these posts. I am certain that your belief they are ugly and unworthy was in no way apparent .... right.

    So you believe people you find attractive are not attracted to you because you are ugly or some physical genetic defect? Consider the possibility for a moment it is because they see the way you are looking at half the people in the room with them - with disdain and and a feeling of superiority or that those people are not worth your time when they are all the same as you. It is that self righteous, self entitled, bad attitude that is your enemy. It is not the genes dictating your physical looks- it is your bad attitude that is so ugly. No haircut, cosmetic procedure, or endless working out and dieting will change that.

    Do hot looking attractive people get a lot of attention? Yes, probably. So what? They are far from the only ones - just they are the only ones you and people that share your skewed set of values are looking at. Because it is easier to pretend that it should be "easy" for you and that you should not have to work or put effort into achieving what you want. So instead or effort at achieving all of your energy goes into hating those that do achieve.

    Stop lamenting the physical appearance that you may or may not be able to change and instead put your energy into getting help for yourself from either self help or therapy in treating the actual issue which is perception and belief that it is supposed to be easy and you should not have to work at making yourself better. That it is "unfair". There certainly is a problem that needs to be dealt with but it is all a problem with attitude and values - those are very minimally genetic and easily changed by having a more open mind. But hey - that takes work to too if you try to change attitude and the issue is wanting everything to be easy in end so it may be an uphill battle.
  2. meaningless-vessel

    meaningless-vessel Well-Known Member

    Probably worded better than I ever would have done. I daresay I wouldn't have been as disciplined. For me - I actually concur with what was put in the OP.

    Aren't the "ugly looking" also people? Do they not - as people - deserve equality? Sure, they look different, but the further "different" someone is - the further away from "social acceptance" they seem to find themselves. It's a pattern i've noticed - that frequently - "depressed people" are isolated by those around them - because of their "different views" - rather than accepted for being who they are and having their own mind. The same results for the "ugly" categorisation.
  3. Butterfly

    Butterfly Resident SF Sims Enthusiast Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

  4. FrainBart

    FrainBart Staff Alumni

    Well said.... I really cannot say more than that... except share the words of a picture a friend sent to me via facebook

    If someone wants to judge me by my size, height or looks, they best look in the mirror and be 100% certain that they look like Johnny Depp or Brad Pitt.
  5. pit

    pit Well-Known Member

    I feel I've been cursed by ugliness and weakness throughout my life thanks to my parents. But I made the best of it by buying sex.
  6. meaningless-vessel

    meaningless-vessel Well-Known Member

    Something else I can quote that would probably indicate a better attitude towards things...

    Reading that - I just wanted to throw a party. That's the hidden qualities that some do not spend the time looking for... Because they want things handed to them on a plate. It does take effort - and sometimes it might be awkward/difficult - but the end results are more likely to be more rewarding. And that's where I think the attitude in the quote I put here - is the most rewarding to achieve.
  7. Butterfly

    Butterfly Resident SF Sims Enthusiast Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    And this is the kind of example NY is talking about. Women are not just sex toys, ragdolls and things you can use whenever you please. Evaluate your attitude, then you may find you have more luck on the ladies front. You could be the best looking guy in the world, but a bad attitude makes you ugly.
  8. Raven

    Raven Guest

    Bald people should not be allowed to have offspring. Beauty is not found on the outside of a person, it is far more on how someone treats others in their life that should matter, looking at the shallow end of things only leads to disappointment as you see what the person is really like and balk and their mannerisms. Really physical attraction should mean so little where the pairing of the ethos should mean so much more. But we as a people are beaten to death on what should be *sexy* what should matter to us is how chiseled a guy’s abs are or how skinny a girl is that it is so far unhealthy, we have lost sight of what should really matter, all manufactured by some add agency.

  9. WildCherry

    WildCherry Staff Member ADMIN

    I couldn't agree more with what's been said in this thread, by the OP, Corvuise, and others. And this quote, posted by FailingHope, is awesome;

    "If someone wants to judge me by my size, height or looks, they best look in the mirror and be 100% certain that they look like Johnny Depp or Brad Pitt."
  10. Kurouin

    Kurouin Member

  11. 3.141592654

    3.141592654 Well-Known Member

    I sometimes wonder why other people put so much emphasis on appearance. But then I realize that the rest of the world aren't awkward idiots, who have a lot of trouble striking up a conversation with anyone, let alone a somewhat attractive person of the opposite sex.
  12. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    And even then while lamenting the difficulties you or the people you are referring to you feel compelled to add qualifiers on the physical appearance and characteristics of those you would agree to be with. "let alone a somewhat attractive" so while saying it is unfair to be socially awkward you think is perfectly reasonable to be judgmental of those you might be able to have a quality bond with and are not interested unless they meet your ideal of physical attractiveness. No, I do not have sympathy, I am sorry.
  13. LightInTheDarkestNight

    LightInTheDarkestNight Well-Known Member

    The mating rituals of humans are kind of strange. Basically it's about finding someone you think is at least your equal if not better.

    There are many good looking couples who have far from attractive kids, as well as not overly attractive people by any standards who have children who are deemed to be highly attractive.

    Sadly people are always looking for things to judge people for so they can feel better about themselves...
  14. Øyvind

    Øyvind Senior Member

    HOLD ON!
    That is said on here? Suicideforum? My god what a bunch of hypocrites. Then the people on suicideforum are the people responsible for real suicides! The victimizers, not the victims. As for the comment you deleted, I saw nothing wrong with it. The comment it was a reply to was the one that should have been deleted, it's disgusting that nazi ideas of eugenics are allowed here(especially since it's the SUICIDE FORUM) and that the people standing up for good are cencored. This is why I hate humanity
  15. Raven

    Raven Guest

    If you are not able to see what a person is on the inside and only the outside you are missing so much of what the person is, most of this stems from a hate from what you see in the mirror regardless of what the general public sees. It is seeing a monster, flaws no matter what, hate for the self. Beauty is bullshit branded by some company trying to sell you a bunch of shit based of an unhealthy self-image. Be yourself, who you are is so much more entertaining than how your hair looks, fat, ugly, tons of freckles, it is all outward, and a lot of people will judge you on it. Your friends, your real friends will not care, they will know the real you.

  16. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I misunderstood your comment on first read so deleted my original reply to your comment (that you may or may not have seen). You were referring to the comment I referred to as having deleted which prompted me to start this thread. As I mentioned, I did not disagree with it but it was more personal attack than comment, so simply because I agreed with it did not mean a personal attack was acceptable on this forum, in my opinion.
  17. Øyvind

    Øyvind Senior Member

    That is not at all a personal attack, it was what was needed to be said. Same as defending yourself or others against a bully, or speaking up against Hitler. When someone says something so evil and pretty much genocidal ("ugly" people should not reproduce) in a forum for life's victims and very vulnerable people, they should be told off. Deleting the comments telling them off is immoral and indefensible, especially since the evil, bullying and triggering comments they're (rightly) reacting to are allowed to say. You're protecting people who should be banned from sf
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2013
  18. mulberrypie

    mulberrypie Well-Known Member

    i think this post is very nice, but a few things popped in my mind.

    - the idea that suffering is limited to those that are physically unattractive is flawed.
    suffering (or harm) comes in many forms and all procreation inflicts potential harm on a sentient being.

    - as lightinthedarkestnight said, phenotypic expression is random. two ugly people may not necessarily
    have an ugly child.

    - i disagree that attractiveness is "largely socially constructed". there's more evidence that attractiveness has measurable, objective indicators.

    - i think the desire for ideal mate(s) is a healthy biological imperative. it's only when it isn't met it causes bad feelings.

    - not directed at op, but i often see people here tell others that if they want to better they just need to "go change" their values or beliefs. i find this ridiculous on so many levels lol.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2013
  19. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    That is a very wise statement, whether directed at me or not and one worth reminding ourselves of anytime we are offering advice or criticizing the actions of others.

    While it may be clear as day what a change should be or needs to be, "just change" is not nearly as simple and expecting that person to do that or understand is not fair or reasonable. If it were that simple none of use would be here....
  20. thorns_all_over

    thorns_all_over Green Thumb Staff Alumni

    Those that are deemed ugly by society's standards on the outside should have reproductive rights no matter what!
    Just people with ugly personality should not have reproductive rights which unfortunately are hard to spot...
    because these kinda people cause a lot of problems for their offspring and society while looks do not cause anything bad at all...
    Good or bad genes have nothing to do with looks!
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2013
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