Respecting (Wrong) opinions (Probably insulting)

Discussion in 'Rants, Musings and Ideas' started by Krem, Aug 29, 2010.

  1. Krem

    Krem Well-Known Member

    Why are we, as people, supposed to respect opinions or believes which are blatantly wrong? I'm not talking about pure opinions, such as taste (Blue v. Green, metal v. pop), but such utter nonsense as religion (In all forms, including ghosts and unicorns), events at 2012, aliens-are-coming, karma, all that crap.

    Spend a small amount of time learning about the subject, and it's revealed that there is nothing to suggest these things, and thus they should be regarded as FALSE.

    And yet, we don't put them in mental hospitals, like we do with most delusional people. Is it simply because they're not dangerous, even though many see nothing wrong with eternal damnation in agony for believing in something else? Is it because there's too many of them? If 10% of a nation would start to worship a can of baked beans, devoting their lives to it, would they not be considered bat-fuck insane?

    It infuriates me when, if you go and actually confront people on how utterly wrong their believes are, you're closed-minded, a bigot, and a heap of other negative terms. What the hell? If one belief is not insanity, then no belief is insanity, since they all have the same amount of proof, logic, and reason. (None whatsoever.)

    Sure, you can find support and whatever, but you're still WRONG. No matter how much you want to think that you, your mother, your aunt, your friends, are not completely ignorant of reality, it doesn't make it so.

    And I have a special dislike to people putting this abomination of thought to a place of serious discussion. Saying that "Hey, here's an interesting possibility that, in theory, could be true." is a good start for an intellectual debate about, say, a teapot floating on the same orbit as earth, at the same speed, exactly on the other side of the sun. Saying that "OMG! There's a teapot copying earth!" is not.

    Example of this logic: There might be aliens. There probably are aliens, given the amount of planets out there. However, since we have no proof of aliens, our stand must be that there are none.
    Example the above example without this logic: There are so many planets out there, that there must be aliens. The probability of there being no aliens out there, amongst the billions and billions of planets, is so high, that our stand must be that there are aliens.
  2. Robin

    Robin Guest

    So am guessing it's a case of either no trees fall if no-one can hear them and/or what you can't see can't hurt?

    But is that the truth? Or is any truth just a delusion?
  3. Krem

    Krem Well-Known Member

    If a tree falls in a forest, a tree falls in a forest. You don't, however, asume that a snorlax was involved.

    You can't see bacteria, but by the gods they can hurt you. If you feel pain without a visible cause, you don't asume that someone hexed you.

    The rest of your comment is, to me, pretenteous hippy pseudophilosophy. (I have first-hand experience from when I was younger; I know when someone is trying to look smart, even when not realising they are.) Not saying that you are, I'm saying that that part of your comment/reply is, to me.
  4. Robin

    Robin Guest

    I am fighting the urge to look smart, so maybe it is seeping out a lil without my realising. Kinda happens when I listen to loud music, which am not able to for various reasons.

    The message does stand though despite the delivery and is one I've struggled on for a couple of decades in that I do not disagree with you in what you said but at the same time I do not agree with it.

    Science is by far the best method of exploring the world around us at this time, in that I am in agreement with you but so long as a belief harms no-one I am not against it either.

    There is this blogger I come across on stumble sometimes, and it really incenses me, he's always vociferously posting against religious (nuts) of which I don't disagree with either. It's pretty clear that dinosaurs weren't around at the time of Jesus and am pretty sure he didn't ride one. It's the method I disagree with, it just feels like the same human tactics were used back when Galileo was trying to put forward the idea that the Earth went round the Sun. Humiliation, known facts and solid wisdom borne from an infinite being an open to all those who read in an advanced society. (Inquisition aside, though, folks still do that sort of thing today too).

    My point is, whatever truth we can prove today, tomorrow might not be so easy to do so. We shouldn't base how we treat others on what we know and what we believe.
  5. Krem

    Krem Well-Known Member

    I'm not saying we should stone people for believing in the easter-bunny. :p

    I'm saying that why is it considered rude to flat-out say that people are wrong? Why must we tolerate large-scale ignorance? It just.. angers me to see people "respect" opinions which even they believe is complete, utter nonsense. I can understand not shouting at them "HAH! RETARD!", but what I can not understand is why we don't correct them, why we let them spread their nonsense. Instead of "Oh, you believe that? Good for you.", "Why do you believe that? What reason to you have for it?", because if they were right, or even had a reason to believe it other than 'just because', they could defend their views.

    Excluding pure opinions, that is. You can't reason, really, why you prefer one flavour over another, one colour over another.

    Why do I care? I'm just anal enough to value correctness, if that's even a word. If everyone reasoned with themselves why they do what they do, why they believe what they believe, we'd get further as a species.

    ..or it'd break down into amoral every-man-for-himself, but people aren't THAT logical.
  6. cult logic

    cult logic Staff Alumni

    I respect the right to have ridiculous opinions, but I do not respect those opinions themselves, and will meet them with the ridicule I see fit.

    That's the way I've always felt it should be.
  7. Robin

    Robin Guest

    I still have issues with meta-cognition, it was especially debilitating for me. Have learned many things while here, one thing I learned from a self confessed NY Jewish Buddhist with a great Brooklyn accent (and currently spending her birthday in hospital today) is that there is no such thing as altruism, after a couple years of CBT and many many more wisdoms from many many friends I started to really break hold over constantly wondering why I do or say things and started to see where she was coming from.

    I don't know why I like 1 flavour over another but I have more important things (to me that is) than to lose sleep over that particular dilemma.

    There is no way to know what is correct or true and just the same, I very much doubt anyone could truly question their motives and find the correct answer. I mean we know a lot and we can do things we couldn't do 10 years ago but we are only ever, at best, one discovery away from a revolution.

    If that revolution proves conclusively to those with the power to resolve the situation that people are little better than cattle (which some might argue now), we might just have another holocaust on our hands. Not that religion hasn't caused it's fair share of evil, am just saying, we shouldn't seek to replace 1 monster with another.

    Folks need, at least at some point in their lives, some spirituality, but like anyone, there are always going to be those that take it too far. But there will be those that take science to far too, folks want something to believe in, we worry that we are so tiny, what hope do we have of accomplishing anything in this galaxy/universe/reality.

    We're all under the same sky so to speak (ty Billy Myers) and not one of us thinks or feels exactly the same as any other person on the plane, but in that regard, we're just gonna have to set some rules all of us can live by and tolerate those that quite frankly, piss us off.

    It's not exactly what I had stumbled to me but it's the same woman and it's the same story :)

    I think we are small and should concentrate on small things, eventually, given the opportunity we may have the opportunity to answer every question, stamp out every evil and ignorance but I don't believe we would otherwise if the foundations of our ignorance today isn't built on kindness.

    We can't all be Einsteins but we can all do small kind things.

    It might not be correct but it's a better belief in what I used to have and I'm not saying that you believe differently, or that you don't think kindness is important because the majority people on the planet do feel it is important, am just saying that we are gonna have to get a long until someone with an answer can solve this/these problem(s).
  8. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    I suppose that's the best thing. They probably think the same way about your logic lol . Atleast we're not killing eachother atm by talking about it which is the best thing we've got atm.

    Atleast now, we are learning to explain things on a more simplier way. We're helping build connections that other people can understand. If they are actually in the wrong that is.
  9. poison

    poison Well-Known Member

    aliens undoubtedly exist. if you don't believe they do, then you are definitely egocentric. there's lots of shady evidence and logic can be used to deduce the strong probability of their existence. however, that doesn't mean they're coming.

    people respect opinions in a social atmosphere because it is respectful. most people do not like confrontation/debate.
  10. morning rush

    morning rush Well-Known Member

    the thing is this is YOUR OPINION not can believe all you want but let others believe what they want...sounds like you're a control freak...need to control everything around you because you can't control your own life....

    I'm so glad I'm not you....:) thank you for making me realize that there are worse people out there than me
  11. cult logic

    cult logic Staff Alumni

    All aboard the passive aggression train.

  12. Krem

    Krem Well-Known Member

    Why, you sure make me feel better. I mean, it's not like I come to this forum for support or anything. I came here for the passive-aggressiveness of people who're so much better than me. I make threads, where disagreeing with me is welcome, although futile, but I also get a decent slush of insults. How nice. One's instinct when faced with opposition is to attack somehow, and is most often done with profanity, but I won't bother. We have moderators. If it were your thread, and I were going against your point, go ahead and tell us how "better" you are; I'll just ignore the thread. I won't go in your thread(s) and tell you how better I am, because, if/when I believe I am, I can keep it to myself, for it is irrelevant to the thread.

    You have no proof of their existence. It's likely, but without proof, there is no fact for them to be here.

    un·doubt·ed (n-doutd)
    Accepted as beyond question; undisputed. See Synonyms at authentic.
    undoubtedly [ʌnˈdaʊtɪdlɪ]
    1. certainly or definitely; unquestionably he is undoubtedly talented
    2. (sentence modifier) without doubt; certainly or indisputably
    "My logic"? No, not really. If it were just "my logic", then the scientific method, and all reasoning, is wrong, and we should accept things as truth without fact-checking, without testing it.

    If something has yet to be proven, it should be considered untrue, a 0, but evidence for it should not be ignored.
    If something has been disproved, unless the disproved evidence is "defeated", evidence for it can be ignored. (You shouldn't, but you can.)
    If something has been proven true, it can still be tested, and should be, but until disproved, should be considered true.

    But, nah, that's just my opinion, yeah? You'll go ahead and go to your Numerologists, psychics, fortune-tellers, and other swindlers, con-artists, liars and pretenders, ghosts, unicorns, trolls, faeries, gods, angels, and any other mythical creatures, because they're been written about they must be true. Those doctors, scientists, and other thinkers are just wrong, lol, they don't know anything. Those decades of school and experience were just spent staring into space.
  13. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    you need a hug ... or something. You seem very closed off to one aspect of life. Which is cool, im just curious though, what do you want out of life if you don't mind me asking.
  14. Krem

    Krem Well-Known Member

    That question is completely off-topic, but whatever.

    I'm going to answer with the realistic one, since what I actually want is impossible unless I become some sort of overpaid and overrated artist. But, what I'd like, is to graduate school and get a stable, interesting job doing astrophysics. (Or, well, to have the brain-capabilities of learning the stuff I need to learn which is bringing me down, even though it's unrelated and completely uninteresting)

    Also, which aspect would that be? I think I have an idea, but I can't articulate it without coming off ruder than I intend to.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2010
  15. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    To be perfectly honest with you, Id rather know the "unrealistic" one. But I presume that's, very personal for you. :) Thanks anyhow for the reply on that. Are you looking to understand the universe and existence?
  16. Krem

    Krem Well-Known Member


    The impossible one is to get a free pass for everything- No need to work, pay for anything, or do anything at all. I could take any class I'd want at any level, and when I was done with that, I could play video games, read stuff, and watch stuff, for as long as I wanted, no need to work, pay bills, or any of such annoyances. Free food, free internet, free electricity, free housing, free furniture, free Warhammer figures and paint, free books, etc..

    Yeah, I'd love to be a 10 year old forever, leeching off some adult figure. *dreamy sigh*

    But, no, reality doesn't work like that; ka just wishes to see us die alone, afraid, and broken, having humiliated ourselves with out body shutting down, every single person you know having died away or stopped caring. But only after wasting ~80 years doing absolutely shit all, in loneliness, tossing some of us little nuggets of joy just so we know what we're not getting.. Ah, good times, good times.

    But, I abhor off-topic.. ness. If you wish to continue this discussion, start your own thread or PM me.
  17. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    Sure thing Krem. :)