Right to Choose?

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by music_junkie, Dec 29, 2008.

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  1. music_junkie

    music_junkie Well-Known Member

    I have been hospitalized TWICE in the past few months for suicide risk - locked psychiatric wards, both times involuntary. Both times, it seems, unnecessarily hastily.

    It just strikes me as odd, how adamant people are about "protecting" those suffering from suicidal ideation... How strongly society seems to desire to "keep suicidal individuals safe by whatever means necessary."

    But drug addicts, and alcoholics can sign out of rehab whenever they want. VERY RARELY are families able to get addicts "committed" to a rehab program unless they very clearly demonstrate that they are a danger to themselves - in the eyes of the law, and in the eyes of the state.

    Further - Those terminally ill patients, or medical patients in general, are allowed to sign out of the hospital against medical advice. Why is it then, that those exhibiting suicidal ideation are treated like prisoners? Why can't we CHOOSE the type of treatment we want?

    I know this site is pro-life... and I am by no means advocating suicide. It just seems odd to me that because I am suicidal I get locked up for a week (or more depending on the state you are in), and others are able to choose the treatment they desire.
     
  2. jessikah2k8

    jessikah2k8 Well-Known Member

    If I got locked up it would make me worse.

    Suicidal people are in need of HELP not being made to feel like an outkast.

    I agree with you there.
     
  3. music_junkie

    music_junkie Well-Known Member

    Exactly.
     
  4. hellwithhugewounds

    hellwithhugewounds Well-Known Member

    music junkie I couldn't have said it better myself.

    No matter how secular our society seems to be, no matter how "separate church from state" our ideals seem to be, they're still deeply rooted in religious thought, so well hidden to the point that it isn't even recognized as religion anymore. The oldest text that says suicide should not be allowed is the Bible. Coincidence?

    But people tend to think they're good enough to make judgments for us. They think they're good enough to make the decision for you that your problems are not big enough to die over. As if they know you better than you do. When you can't solve your problems, they think they're good enough to take it over from you, even if it means by force. I don't know where people get that kind of arrogance. In a perfect society this would be illegal coercion.
     
  5. Dave_N

    Dave_N Guest

    Suicide is illegal simply because you are murdering yourself, and murder is illegal.
     
  6. music_junkie

    music_junkie Well-Known Member

    So the same should hold true for drug addicts, alcoholics, terminally ill medical patients, etc etc etc.
     
  7. Ciartan

    Ciartan New Member

    And what if your murder of yourself saves the lives of other people? It's easy to claim that an action is good or bad depending on your belief system, but when looked at objectively it's impossible to state categorically that that opinion is right or wrong.
     
  8. Aeterna

    Aeterna Account Closed

    That's rather circular logic.

    Murder is (legally) defined as killing that unlawful (As opposed to say, justified homicide). You're essentially saying, "Suicide is illegal simply because you're killing yourself illegally, and killing illegally is illegal."

    Anyway, Music_Junkie, the logic they use is probably something like this: "If you're suicidal, then you're not thinking rationally enough to make your own decisions, because rational people don't try to commit suicide." They tell you that you can't choose your treatment, because you're not competent enough to make your own decisions. (Especially if you're a minor.)

    I don't agree with the logic, but that's generally why.
     
  9. music_junkie

    music_junkie Well-Known Member

    Exactly! And who's to say that those substance dependent/addicted are in the "rational" minds? They're on mind altering drugs!

    sigh.

    It's just a point of frustration for me recently.
     
  10. Aeterna

    Aeterna Account Closed

    Well, here's the thing.

    IANAL, but sometimes, if you are on mind altering drugs, the courts (At least in the United States), can make a decisions on your behalf, or give you a guardian who will make decisions on your behalf.

    If your a minor, then your parents automatically can make most medical decisions on your behalf, even if you aren't on mind altering substances.
     
  11. music_junkie

    music_junkie Well-Known Member

    Its much rarer to get committed for substance abuse then it is psych complications - and of course, minors don't have any rights. It's unfortunate, really.
     
  12. Petal

    Petal SF dreamer Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    I totally agree with you.Patients should have the right to choose.
     
  13. Leiaha

    Leiaha Well-Known Member

    I took back the right 2 choose for myself by not telln anybody anymore when i feel suicidal. Now i get 2 choose when i'm ready without having 2 rushit.
     
  14. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    The paperwork actually says that suicide is not a right and that suicidal intentions are a sign of mental illness that poses a risk to the individual and can skew their thinking, so they can be held against their will if a doctor thinks they are unfit to make decisions for themselves.

    Do I agree with it? No. But that's they way it is.
     
  15. LenaLunacy

    LenaLunacy Well-Known Member

    I think we should have the right to choose, but in some cases the person is not in their right mind and may not accept the help they need. For instance, in my old house, opposite there lived a woman with very serious Bi polar. And she used to go through like hallucinations i guess. She'd accuse us of hanging off her roof and watching her undress! And she threatened to stab the children with a sword :/ In this case, we were forced to call the police, as the lives of the kids were at potential risk. She was taken to court for indecent behaviour or something and commited. She's recently come out on licence, meaning if she takes her meds and behaves she can stay out.
    Whilst i think it's sad it came to that, she became a potential threat to the neighbourhood and was upsetting many. And she lost her right to choose.
     
  16. music_junkie

    music_junkie Well-Known Member

    And I am all for the law stepping in in cases like this - What is puzzling to me is that they dont step in for again, substance abusers who let's say have a hx of drunk driving. Or the heroine user who will very likely die if they relapse again. They let them walk out of rehab. They let them CHOOSE their treatments - and aren't they of equal "threat" to the rest of society?

    Couldn't it be said that they too, are suffering from a mental illness that is incapacitating them and not allowing them to think logically?

    Substance abuse and substance dependence are diagnosable criteria in the DSM-IV... Why is it that some things (eg alcohol, drugs) dont "plug people in" the way suicide does? (or even suicidal gestures, eg. cutting.)

    Or honestly, even the medical patient that is refusing treatment - they are given the "right to refuse" treatment... Example. A patient knows they are going to most probably die without an operation - However, he/she elects to NOT have it done, for financial reasons, they dont want the long recovery time, they dont want to put their family through that, etc etc eitc. The hospital doesnt force them to stay - even though a life is very likely in jeopardy. They are allowed to choose to walk out of the hospital and continue on with their lives the way they see fit.

    I just dont get why suicide is any different. If I walk into the ER and ask for help, and a few hrs later I realize I do not need inpatient treatment, nor do I want it, and I want to leave, it puzzles me that I can't sign myself out THAT DAY. (usually they have a waiting period for suicidal pts?)
     
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