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"School Shooters"

Discussion in 'Rants, Musings and Ideas' started by RCC, Aug 24, 2007.

  1. RCC

    RCC Well-Known Member

    I was just wondering, does anyone sympathize or defend the acts of the Columbine shooters, since they went through many of the same things we're going through and could relate with? If 'yes' why and if 'no' why, please.
  2. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    Having read "Catcher in the Rye" by Salinger, I kind of understand it..but can never condone it..if that makes sense :blink:
  3. Blackness

    Blackness Guest

    I guess we get angry at people around us, but to MURDER innocent people is just wrong. I don't think it's any excuse.
  4. johnsmythe

    johnsmythe Well-Known Member

    I can understand why they would do it but I don't condone it. I don't believe innocent people should have to die just because you can't take it anymore. They could have just as easily taken only their lives instead.
  5. Zueri

    Zueri Well-Known Member

    I'll make an attempt to justify it, but I will never condone it.

    The Columbine shooters were, if you did some research, basically the outcasts in their school. They were the geeks - the "Dungeons and Dragons" kids - it was not "cool" to associate with. They made attempts to assimilate into their society, but failed miserably. They were basically left alone to deal with their feelings, obviously harboring a growing dislike/frustration with the society they were living in.
    I see their acts of violence as a final attempt to make their voices heard by society. Their pain, their loneliness, their agony over being rejected by their fellow students was too unbearable for them to deal with it alone...They had no where to turn, nobody to talk to, and so they set out to "teach everybody a lesson."

    johnsmythe brings up that "they could just as easily taken only their lives instead." True, it would have made the whole ordeal a lot easier for everybody. However, that was exactly the point! They wanted revenge on the people that had turned their backs on them...those "innocent" people that simply wanted to blend into the crowd. The act of killing others was an expression of anger - that of terminating themselves, a final statement of their internal pain.

    :dunno: That's just how I see it.
    And, I repeat, I will never condone their actions, just attempt to sympathize.
  6. RCC

    RCC Well-Known Member

    After much thought, and after an experience with some jocks tonight, my mind both defends the idea and condones it, my heart doesn't, but my mind is Pro-Harris & Klebold
  7. Greenforest

    Greenforest Well-Known Member

    Killing innocent people is always wrong. Who have done nothing.

    But I can't blame them for killing bullies and dickheads. They had it coming, at least they always should have. Bullies get away so easy. They pick on the weakest ones, or silent persons who would just want to stay invisible. And they never get anything back. They have wonderful lives, girlfriends, friends, succes in work. They don't even have any other reason to bully than to just show their power and how much support they have.

    They are invincible.

    Unless someone shoots them.

    I had my difficult times, and there were tens of people I wouldn't have felt any sorry to see dead. But I'm not a killer person myself.

    I repeat what I said: Killing innocent people is always wrong. Good people don't deserve to die.

    R.I.P. Klebold & Harris
  8. RCC

    RCC Well-Known Member

    Think about this for a second; Point: Those two boys killed themselves too.

    The jocks of Columbine bullied them so badly, made them feel so worthless that they actually became mentally ill, so mentally ill that they ultimatly died from thier illness.

    The jocks who died in Columbine are the real killers,not Klebold or Harris.
    The jocks killed themselves and killed Klebold and Harris.

    Matt Kechter, Dan Rohrbough, Rachel Scott, Isaiah Shoels
    John Tomlin and Lauren Townsend, were not innocent.
  9. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    Well, I think most teens (or people who used to be teens) have been in similar frames of mind but I think it takes a real sociopath to honestly defend something like that.

    Unfortunately, kids that age often don't really understand the full weight of what they're doing. I mean, they know it's wrong but they just don't really get it. Kids act before they really think sometimes.
  10. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    This is such bullshit. Yes, I feel sorry for the people who were bullied. But I have known people like this. They feel like outcasts, so they become withdrawn and further alienate themselves, saying "fuck this bullshit and everyone here". Fine. That is their right, lots of people do this. But we all play the game. We all have to find a way to fit in with society. That doesn't mean we are going to be the head cheerleader or the quarterback of the football team, but hey, we all learn how to make it work. Unless of course you are a psycho killer, in which case you blame everyone else for your ineptitude and go on a murderous rampage.

    Act out, smoke some pot, wear your black clothes and Doc Martin's. Fine. These people can always fit in somewhere. Do you know how many people there are going through the same thing? "We want to be different, just like everyone else". Please.

    People rise above this sort of thing. People can gain some perspective and say "Hey! Maybe I shouldn't go to school with bombs and guns terrorizing people and asking if they believe in God before blowing their brains out all over the school cafeteriagymatorium!"

    For fuck's sake. The problem is not the bullys, it's not the "emos" and it's not "the system". It is the fact that for some reason every teenager on the planet thinks that they are the center of the fucking universe, and the minute someone disputes that "fact", they go into major (sometimes violent) depression.

    There is NO excuse for this behavior, and I cannot believe that YOU RCC are saying that they are the real heroes and that some of those people deserved to die just because they were acting like stupid, idiotic teenagers. I shudder to think of what would happen if the fate of the world were in your vengeful hands. You are a Christian for God's sake. What do you think Jesus would say about this? Certainly not that these people deserved to die because they acted like assholes for a couple of years to some people who thought they were too cool to bother with the social structure of high school.

    If kids can no longer handle the politics of high school, then they are going to have a very rude awakening when they actually enter the "real" world, where you actually have to play by the rules.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2007
  11. jhayes0027

    jhayes0027 Well-Known Member

    It's kind of weird and wrong of me but, I really don't think either way on this. Honestly i really don't care. It's hard to explain but after reading all the posts about people, I agree with everyone in some way and just don't even care that it happened at all really. If I had been there, yes I may think different, then again I could be dead.
  12. RCC

    RCC Well-Known Member

    Let me ask you a question and be honest. Do you have friends?
  13. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    Assuming (probably falsely) that this is a sincere question and not a way of dodging the issue entirely, then I will answer honestly. Yes. I have wonderful friends who are a blast to be around. I also have a loving husband and family, as if this has anything to do with the subject at hand.

    Once again, how is it following the Christian principle to say that these people deserved to be killed in a horrible and terrifying fashion because they happened to be adolescent jerks?

    Wait...never mind. I'm pretty sure that you got that directly from the gospel of bullshit.
  14. RCC

    RCC Well-Known Member

    See, then you don't understand.
    It has everything to do with the topic at hand.
    I would never shootup a school, I'm passed that stage.
    My life revolves around Christ now.
    However, and perhaps it's the Devil whispering in my ear, but I just have a hard time directing any choler towards Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
    They missed out on so much, becuase of some "adolescent jerks".
    That's not good enough for me.
    Society never gave a shit about Harris or Klebold, until they killed 13 kids and then society dubbed them evil, pathetic and so forth.
    Face it, society cares more about whether Johnny or Andrew will be the quarterback of their local high school team, then us suicidal folk.
    Society cares more about the 13 kids killed on April 20, '98 at Columbine High School, then all of the high school students, who were bullied in such an acute way, they ended their lives, sometimes in a very barbaric way.
    It's not good enough for me

    There is nothing Christian about it, it's just a thought that is rote, at the meantime.

    Again, you have a family, wonderful friends. All I have is my dog.
    Besides my two cousins and my sister, I haven't seen anyone my own age in 11 months. You gain perspective, let me tell yea'.
  15. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    I am also not directing any choler toward the boys who committed this heinous crime. I hope they are with God and finally at peace. But they ARE guilty of murder. They have taken people from their families, ruined not only the lives of the dead, but the people who knew them, loved them, etc... What a horrible myopic crime!

    I think the Devil may not whisper in our ears, but I DO think that you are so wrong in this. Some people are bastards, jerks, idiots (I know very well that these are not Christian things to say, but as far as the world goes...these people can be and ARE jerks.)

    Society may not have cared about these young men, but does society care about me? NO! But I made my way. I turned shit into gold (as it were) and I blame NO-ONE for my problems (even though I COULD very easily do so according to these ridiculous standards). I am responsible for myself, for living in our society and for "playing the game".

    Bullying is wrong, and teachers should most assuredly be more acutely aware of what is happening in our schools...but this is NO excuse for the murder of people who are just trying to fit in and get by. These psychos want to buck the system and say "fuck the world", but that is childish bullshit. You cannot do that and hope to be a success in life. It sucks, but you can't. So learn to deal with it. This is not fantasyland, this is not a Disney movie, and this is not an 18th century French poem. Deal with life, or don't, but killing people is wrong on every level.

    Step out of your own pain for maybe 15 seconds and realize that we ALL have bagloads of shit we need to get rid of.

    Me? Deceased father (car accident, I was 16, wanted to die), Mother who married said Father's Brother, then divorced him because he was a dick (good for her!), Brother who is suicidal because he can't cope with the shit through which he is going (no wonder).

    In High School, every friend I ever held dear fucked me over, betrayed me in the most horrible ways possible and then pretended it never happened TO MY FACE.

    Question: Did I go to school with weapons and kill them all? UM...NO, because I am not a psycho. Because I recognize the sanctity of human life and I honestly hope to this day that they have found the happiness that so evaded them in high school.

    They were sociopaths, who I truly hope found happiness in the afterlife. But their behaviour can NEVER be condoned, and they are most certainly NOT heroes.
  16. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    BTW RCC, I am sorry that you feel alienated and I am sorry that you feel like you don't have friends. This saddens me, and I am not being glib or sarcastic here. But it does not excuse murderous behavior and it does not make it O.K. for people to do whatever they wish. It most certainly does not make the people who commit these acts "heroes" as you say, nor does it make the victims deserving of such a horrible fate. We ALL make mistakes. We ALL at one time or another treat someone like shit who does not deserve it. Shame on us, but shame on them as well. No-one deserves to die because of this.

    If anything, they deserve more compassion.
  17. RCC

    RCC Well-Known Member

    I agree.

    I understand. I'm saying that the victims aren't as innocent as we say they are the the perpetrators aren't as guilty as we say they are.

    Naw. Some much more then others.

    Well, God bless you.
    But I'm talking about the high school football players whose worst case scenario is getting cut, verses the bullied.

    Well Klebold and Harris were not psychotic, one. Secondly, my point is that it's not as "black-and-white" as victims: innocent; Klebold/Harris: guilty.

    I know, I know. But my question to you is; the jocks that bully kids to the point of suicide, are they not as "guilty" as Klebold & Harris.
  18. RCC

    RCC Well-Known Member

    No, like I literally have no one to associate with. I'm not the typical quite kid who doesn't chum around with a large group of people, and come on the internet to whine about it, I have zero friends, I don't go to school or to work, I'm ethier walking my dog, sitting in front of the computer screen/TV or sleeping. My MSN contact list is made up of people from this site and a Christian site. Not one person living in my province, our Atlantic Canada for that matter.

    God bless you for caring, I appreciate it.:hug:

    All I'm saying is the innocent is not as innocent as we think and the guilty is not as guilty as we think.
  19. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    I really and truly thank you for your kind reply. (Please do not think I am being cynical or derisive here).

    No. The victims were not innocent. None of us are.

    And yes, unfortunately, some of us have more pain than others...but at such a young age, we cannot necessarily perceive or comprehend that. Too self-centered at such a young age. Certainly not old enough to be culpable enough to DIE for their crimes.

    And NO WAY were the perpetrators of this horrible crime innocent, just because they were bullied by a couple of people. Bad? YES. Idiotic? Absolutely. But worthy of death? That is for GOD to decide,, not 2 fucked up kids with a grudge.
  20. RCC

    RCC Well-Known Member

    Can't disagree with any of that.