Scientific Method

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Mardoct, Mar 2, 2008.

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  1. Mardoct

    Mardoct Member

    Hello one and all. I've already been diagnosed with acute depression, a schizoid personality, schizophrenia -- I hear voices -- and may also have Asberger's syndrome. All this is enough to justify suicidal thoughts, but my real problem lies in my logic. That is, my logic is making suicide look like the best option. Let me explain.

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    Scientific Method:

    1.Define the Question
    2.Gather Information
    3.Analyze Information
    4.Draw Conclusion
    5.Cross-reference Conclusion with others

    1. The Question: What is real?
    Terms: Real; Existent; True: To have an undeniable substance
    observable by any observer.

    2. The Information: Nil.
    All forms of information gathering employed by humans
    intrinsically require that the human senses have some
    modicum of ability to output data consistent with reality
    to our minds. Acting on such an assumption is folly, and
    undermines the intent to gather data consistent with
    reality, what ever "reality" may be; thusly making all data
    gathered by science up to this point in time useless.

    Since we have no information that can be argued to be real
    and have no mechanisms by which to gather information without
    the use of the human brain at any point, or any way to create
    such a system, all information gathered by humans to this
    point in time is worth nothing more than trivial mental
    playthings.

    3. The Prognosis: Nil.
    We have no framework of reality given to us from any
    reliable source, and have no reliable source to search for
    such a framework, therefore we are eternally damned to the
    lack of any idea of what reality is, or whether there is
    such a thing as reality.

    This leaves us to live a life based on what could be called
    nothing more than a string of postulations without any
    substantiation from a reliable source of information. This
    leaves all our thoughts, actions, past, present, future,
    or more accurately the entire cosmos of humanity as viewed
    from the interior to be trivial musings for the mind.

    Humans are, by this logic, doomed to a life devoid of any
    form of certainty or idea of what we are, have been, will
    become, or any other such form of categorizing states of
    being. It also bounds humans to a life of irrational
    existence. To believe anything, or acknowledge anything,
    we are required to act on postulations of what reality is;
    something that leaves all forms of rational thinking
    about our beliefs to be rendered inoperable. There is no
    information known to be true with which to dissect our
    thoughts and/or our/other's beliefs.

    4. Life and all experiences/thoughts within the confines
    of life are trivial and unsubstantiated. They hold no
    more value than assertion, for that is what it is.

    5. I have as of yet to find a peer with which to
    cross-reference.

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    So, do you see any flaws in my logic? I've come to the decision that living a life of complete uncertainty is not worth it, but it would be folly to not put this under the scrutiny of others to see if I have erred somewhere.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2008
  2. fojerbachas

    fojerbachas Active Member

    interesting post!
    gonna read it once again
     
  3. andytheone

    andytheone Member

    What is real

    I have asked the same questioning and have found trying to find an answer very interesting

    Reality is what your mind is able to interpret, your mind has never seen sunlight or felt heat or cold it is reliant on what your 5 senses are able to interpret and turn into electrical signals and feed them to your brain
    If you could sever this connection from say your eye to your brain and feed in a different signal then you would be able to see what ever is feed in there, the same could be done for either of the other senses
    If you where born into this world and told this is how it works you would believe that is all there is and become part of it without questioning it, the same as if you where born into one culture and taught one way of thinking without ever knowing about any other cultures, that would be your operating system and you would only be able to conduct yourself with that programming

    I think there is more out there than what science can say, science is a modern day language of measuring thing that are able to be measured and things that can not be measured are dismissed as hocus pocus and myths and magic

    Thinking of reality does your life ever feel like it is written and you, not your body, your consciousness the observer inside is just along for the ride, do you ever feel like you do things without thinking about them and catch yourself in the moment observing what your doing ?

    We only use 10% of ower brains and 90% is left redundant and we are able to detect 10% of the universe and 90% is unknown, I am sure there is more to reality than just the narrow time we spend between birth and the grave and each one of us gets to find out through this experience a lesson to take forward with us

    good luck
     
  4. Abacus21

    Abacus21 Staff Alumni

    I'll move this to the Soap Box, as that's the place for debate, and the like. :)
     
  5. Mardoct

    Mardoct Member

    "We only use 10% of ower brains"

    No, we can only use ~10% at any given time. Throughout our lives, however, every last neuron in every section of the brain will fire at least once.

    Science isn't about measurements at all, science is a method by which to attain knowledge, or as is the case with me, the problem of not being able to attain knowledge. The body of knowledge called "science" is really the output, not science itself. Furthermore, things that can't be measured in some way are useless because they won't have any defined effects on anything. Science, however, does contain things that have no measure, like quantum mechanics includes randomness.

    Assuming that modern physics resembles reality, we are just observers of a pre-written play. Outside of quantum mechanics, everything is written in stone by the calculations that are always observed as being true by modern physicists. All matter moves predictably, thus making our lives pre-written... Assuming modern physics resembles reality, or that there is such a thing as reality.

    As for senses, that is what annoys me. I can only interpret what they give me, and I do not know if they are feeding me any sort of truth. This is what makes me unable to have any certainty in my life.
     
  6. andytheone

    andytheone Member

    so your feling is that your life is pre written, i must say i have felt this myself and have wounderd who or what is the force that wrote me and for what reason, but he must have been haveing a laugh at the time :)

    science today is the language of the past thousands of years that explain where we are and everything around us, theorys do change with time

    if you subscribe to the holagraphic universe then how can you know what you have been told is true unless you experience it for youself we could be living in a matrix and never know

    if you look for a definition of time, the harder you look the harder a explanation is to come by science is able to measure it but not explain it,

    most people are able take life and everything around them for granted and just go about the experience and not worry about it, i dont know how and obviously you cant
     
  7. Mardoct

    Mardoct Member

    Life seems to be a matrix to me. (A REAL matrix, nothing about the movie.) Simply an array of arrays explaining where we are, where we are going and where we have been. All clockwork. I wish no part in it.
     
  8. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    A quote from Karl Popper:

     
  9. jonstark

    jonstark Well-Known Member

    Mardoct, I also have those heavy nihilistic thoughts most of the time.

    Camus examines this exact topic in his essay The Myth of Sisyphus. He concludes suicide is not an option. I'm not sure I agree with him.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus
     
  10. nedflanders

    nedflanders Well-Known Member

    Actually, you probably have Asperger's Syndrome. Asberger's syndrome is what Alois Asperger had when he had a code in his dose. :)

    Sigh. By dressing your thoughts up in this way, you've made your conclusions artificially unassailable, because you've made them sound scientific. Do yourself a favor, and just let your thoughts be, without the window dressing.

    Science is fundamentally about measuring things. If you can't measure something, you can't study it with science. Therefore, questions like

    are not amenable to scientific study.

    So you've found your way into Spinoza's philosophy (short form--you can't prove you're not just a brain in a jar, so therefore you can't know anything). It's quite careful with its logic, but it's not a very interesting place, is it?

    Plus, there are non-trivial forms of knowledge that don't require the input of the senses. A classic example is Euclidian geometry. Even though everything in geometry follows from a small set of assumed postulates, the things you can learn, and the logical paths you follow on the way, are quite interesting.

    Indeed, all of us--even the atheists--make a leap of faith in organizing our daily lives.

    But what's so bad about that?

    This comes across as either arrogant or sloppy. People have wrestled with epistemology (the study of what can be known) for millennia.


    Yes--right there. You've made a leap from accepting big limits on your ability to know things with certainty, to deciding to die because of those limits. You hint in your post that this fundamental uncertainty makes you feel unhappy. But you haven't fleshed out any logic that would require you to feel that way about uncertainty.

    Accepting uncertainty means accepting the possibility of unexpected discoveries and insights. It means accepting the possibility of re-interpreting past events and thoughts.

    Perhaps it's a schizoid thing, but I really don't see uncertainty as a fundamentally bad thing.
     
  11. downnout

    downnout Well-Known Member

    oh god... this can't be happening. the scientific method. infallible. made by fallible human beings.
     
  12. amicus

    amicus Antiquitie's Friend

    Dear Mardoct,
    I found your thread very interesting. You must be an outstanding student. I am also a student. I wanted to offer a few thoughts of my own. First, since all data gathered by science up to this point is useless, making science absolete, your psychological diagnosis would be implausible. Psychology, as we all know, is not an exact science. Secondly, if what is real must be an undeniable substance observable by any observer, would that not make the voices you hear unreal? Have you defined yourself by something that is not real? Some things are certain. If we touch fire, we burn. If we cut, we bleed. Do you not think that having the ablity to think on our on and chose our own realities is a gift? Is not your reality different from mine? Could it be that we both use Freuds' defense mechanism of intellectualization? I love your logic and your mind. I look forward to your response.
     
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