Sea Pirates...Pay 'em or spray 'em?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by shades, Apr 14, 2009.

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  1. shades

    shades Staff Alumni

    As many of you know the entire world is currently, and has been for some time, being held up by Somali pirates off of their coast, which happens to be one of the major shipping lanes for the international community. They board and hold the crew until a very large ransom is paid. Sometimes in the neighborhood of several millions of dollars.

    Until recently, they pretty much ran the show until a couple of countries fought back. The French and U.S. recently thwarted such acts by using force against the pirates, killing some of them.

    All ransoms paid are of course passed onto us, the consumers. And of course, as they hold prisoners, very few countries are willing to take a chance that we or the pirates might kill some of the prisoners when trying to release the crew and ship.

    What do you think we should do? This is a lawless country with very little, if any, government control.

    I'm not taking a position on this as yet, still trying to figure it out. Just asking. It is a very difficult dillemma! Should we just continue to pay, or use force?
  2. Shogun

    Shogun Well-Known Member

    Use force.

    You pay criminals like that and you give them license to continue their pillaging. Then it's a continuous circle that never ceases.

    They are the most disgusting types of thieves. Kidnapping the very people who are delivering aid to the unfortunates that are suffering in their own country. They're not only kidnapping kind hearted people, they're killing Somalia's poor that need that aid to survive.

    People like that stop being seen as human beings when they make the choice to do such despicable acts as far as I'm concerned and as such need to be dealt with by the toughest force possible.
  3. shades

    shades Staff Alumni

    I agree with most of what you say, but if they start shottin' up the crew and hostages, etc... it could get kind of messy. On the other hand, what's the em all they want? I don't think so.
  4. Shogun

    Shogun Well-Known Member

    Hostage situations need to be handled with care, there's no doubt about that. But tackling the problem at the root is key. Hitting these criminals before they get a chance to get their hands on anymore victims.

    Putting pirates sailing around the (Indian, is it?) Ocean under constant surveillance is a little tricky admittedly, but there must be some way of monitoring their actions and striking before any innocents become victims.
  5. shades

    shades Staff Alumni

    I heard that some of the major players such as England, U.S. France and Germany are talking behind the scenes about some kind of land invasion to stop it at its source. Although, this would appear to be a declaration of war if they had any government to declare to. What's your feeling on this?
  6. Shogun

    Shogun Well-Known Member

    It's a serious situation that isn't going to get better unless extreme action is taken. If that means provoking war, then so be it. Like I say, these thieves are preventing aid reaching people who will die without it. War is usually fought for the greater good, to bring peace and to benefit the majority.

    I've been following this pirate story for months now, way before it began to make it into the main stream news. So I have witnessed it gain momentum. It's gradually gotten worse as the pirates continue to get away with their atrocious crimes, so it's not going to go away.

    I believe criminals should be dealt with with the greatest force possible. I don't even view criminals as human beings, so maybe my views are biased, but these criminals hijacking ships full of aid need to be stopped by any means necessary.
  7. shades

    shades Staff Alumni

    OK, I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb by saying that we should spray 'em with bullets before even thinking about pay'in 'em. Maybe we could send a little food their way if we can be sure it gets to their poor which is another problem entirely. But paying them 2-3 million to allow a gas tanker to pass through open international waters...there's something wrong with this picture.
  8. Crue-K

    Crue-K Well-Known Member

    To pay them is most definately not the answer, as for killing them I am unsure at the moment.

    Somalia has a long history of civil war, weak governments and an increasing militant faction of islamic fundamentalism who are pushing for sharia law. I would speculate that any ransom paid will be going towards financing further civil war and possibly installing a de facto militia governement. It's true that ordinary Somalians are poor and lack the basic necessities to live.

    One thing I would not like to see is some form of US military involvement, we just need to remember the lives lost in Mogadishu in the early 90's.

    For the time being, these cargo ships should employ heavily armed security personnel to be a visible deterrent who have some form of rules of engagement should the situation arise.
  9. Shogun

    Shogun Well-Known Member

    They've just hijacked another Freighter off the Gulf of Aden.

    The 3rd ship to be hijacked by Somali pirates in the space of a week.
  10. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Prime example of Anarchy working for the benfit of all.
    But at the end of the day, who poisoned their fish?
  11. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    Interestingly, until the most recent incident with the Maersk Alabama, these pirate attacks rarely resulted in loss of life (or even injury) on either side.

    While many of these pirates are nothing more than thugs and criminals, a number of them are also desperately poor men (mostly ex-fishermen and pastoralists) who have been driven to these heinous acts out of desperation. As such, the key as I see it at least is:

    1) Deterrence: these ships need to be provided with security, just as anything transporting precious cargo is. This security could include smaller but faster escort ships, guards on board the ship, or even both. The navies of these ships home nations can also provide support, albeit through providing a lot more ships then they currently are. And additional catch: apparently its too expensive for the taste of most corporations.

    2) This is the trickier one: stopping the piracy at its source. These pirates are a sympton of the anarchy, poverty, and absolute non-existence of Somalia as a cohesive state and entity. There are no schools or clinics, no real infrastructure or government...nothing that discourages desperate people from seeking piracy or stops the common criminals from perpetrating it. We'd have to invest a hell of a lot of time, money, and men into this operation, making it unbelievable difficult, if even guaranteed.
  12. hammockmonkey

    hammockmonkey Well-Known Member

    There is no possible way for businesses nor navys to provide security for every ship in the area. Arming the boats will increase the number people killed. That is a few thousand square miles, actually a lot more. Changing the culture of Somalia is also nearly impossible. What's the point of being a fishermen if you can go out with a gun and make a few hundred thousand? The odds of getting caught and killed is going up, but it's still actually not very high. Somalia is still a very much a war torn territory, there is a civil war that has divided the country. The UN has already withdrawn from the area, for the most part.

    Also, according to the tenents of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the decreased number of pirates is directly responsible for global warming. Therefore, we should encourage these people to be pirates to stop the spread of global warming, so says the FSM.
  13. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    Hence my Second tactic. Its the only truly effective, permenant solution, but a highly unlikely one, especially given these trying times.
  14. shades

    shades Staff Alumni

    ISSACCS: Along with over-fishing their own stock, yes we did contribute to the problem and if there were a valid government there we should offer some kind of solution for that, no doubt. But the pirates are taking their money and building giant palaces on the shoreline and not putting any of the money into research, etc., to get their fisheries back to some semblance of effectability. Regardless, the world should look at some solutions other than just blasting away, unless they simply won't negotiate, then...what's left.
  15. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    i think the problem is people forget eveyone is just out for a living, all they want is a secure life, a secure future for their families etc, why not find a way to hire them to protect the ships from others, giving them a bloody good pay would still save money compared to the amount being lost due to ransoms
  16. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    if not just shoot them, theres only so much we can do to help.
    even then why dont the UN ushers the ships around instead of fart arsing around with beaurocractic bullshit
  17. pit

    pit Well-Known Member

    It would be different if they were pirates with class, kidnapping corporate CEOs, stockbrokers, health insurance magnates, robbing from the rich and redistributing the wealth, like the Dukes of Hazzard.

    If they operated like that, I'd join them and say har, har, matey.

    But since they victimize the poor and pretty much everyone, I say we wipe em out.
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