selfish?

Discussion in 'I Have a Question...' started by someone uk, Jun 26, 2010.

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  1. someone uk

    someone uk Well-Known Member

    people often describe suicide as "selfish"
    am i the only person who thinks it's more selfish to pressure someone who is obviously suffering to live against their will?

    idk what is your perspective?
     
  2. Dave_N

    Dave_N Banned Member

    I think that both perspectives are valid. Suicide is a selfish act because the suicidal person kills him/herself without considering how his/her loved ones will be affected for the rest of their lives. The people left behind have to deal with the emotional scars inflicted by the suicide. So yes suicide is a selfish act. It is also selfish to force a suicidal person to live against his/her will, but I think it's morally correct to try to encourage someone to continue living and overcoming their crippling depression.
     
  3. Things

    Things Well-Known Member

    This is kind of a difficult question to answer.

    I don't believe suicide is selfish. That's like saying being in pain is selfish, at least in my view. Suicide is what happens when one can no longer cope with life, when they lost all will to live. I don't believe it's really chosen. When you can't take anymore, you just can't take anymore.

    I don't think "pressuring a suicidal person to live" is selfish either, but I can see how it can be. Loved ones believe things will get better, that the suicidal person will miss good and important things in life if they died.

    I'm not really wording this post right, it's hard to find the words. But hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say.
     
  4. someone uk

    someone uk Well-Known Member

    yeah i get where you are coming from
    it's just that i have been accused of being selfish because i am suicidal but i think it is however selfish to try and use such an accusation
     
  5. Bambi

    Bambi Well-Known Member

    I used to catergorically say no it was not selfish until I met someone who is unwilling to do anything about their situation and continues to hurt others with his disease..to me he wants to take the easy way out, no make an effort to change...he will hurt his parent deeply and continues to lash out at others on his spiral downward so in my mind he is selfish as all get out....harsh i know but i have been the target of his anger too much and seen him unwilling to change to say much else right now..i will soften i am sure...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2010
  6. Things

    Things Well-Known Member

    Feelings can't be controlled. You can't be selfish for things beyond your control.

    Edit: It's a horrible thing to say to someone who's hurting too. But I think they're under the impression that somehow, making you feel bad will save you. Some people believe if you shame someone enough, they won't do what they view is bad.

    But I don't know enough about what's going on to be sure, I'm assuming it's your loved ones or friends saying this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2010
  7. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    No, I don't think it's selfish at all if the person has no dependents. I've considered what the effects on my family will be when I die. I've just managed to reason that the benefit of my death outweighs the short period of any grief they will endure. As all things when they die, the world goes on, people grieve and move on. When someone in the family dies, people move on. There's no great loss. They keep living and the world keeps turning.
     
  8. Viro

    Viro Well-Known Member

    Selfish is irrelevant.
     
  9. Madam Mim

    Madam Mim Well-Known Member

    I believe it depends on the circumstances. As has been suggested by others, if the person does not consider the effects of their actions and does not make any attempt to help themselves or accept the help offered by others, then I think that it can be a selfish thing to do.

    However, I also agree that you cannot be called selfish for wanting to end the pain. Most suicidal people only come to such a conclusion as a last resort when they have tried every other option available to them. How can you call that selfish?! In such a situation I would say that it is selfish to expect them to continue living in such pain.

    I'm sorry if this touches nerves with anyone, I don't mean it to, but I hate it when people understand the suicidal ideations of someone in intense physical pain more than someone in emotional pain. Why should it be any different?

    Mim
     
  10. johnnysays

    johnnysays Well-Known Member

    What you see as the easy way out might be hard for them. Not everyone is the same.

    Instead of getting angry at that person, you should try to educate them about how to do it the way you think is hard. Maybe for them it's harder than hard. So they need extra help, kind of like someone who has learning disabilities needs a tutor to keep up. Long ago, deaf and blind people were assumed to be incapable of becoming better. We now know they can learn things.

    Or... games. Some games are so hard that you just don't even try. Ever seen a mountain so high that you decide not to climb it?

    Well, for some people the mountain won't be so high. Maybe they have climbing skills? Maybe they have wings? Who knows.

    Don't judge. Sometimes when you're close to someone you're also the furthest away from them.

    I give every suicidal person or depressed person benefit of the doubt. My gut tells me that they have a history of bad choices and bad habits that have led to their situation, but life has taught me to keep my gut in check.

    Well, that is only part of what comes out of my gut. And the other parts also help to keep it in check. Scarcity is man made. It's an illusion. It's just a matter of educating ourselves about the wealth all around us so that we can use it. And most of the problems we have as a species are a result of bad choices and bad habits stored in our culture and dna. Yet, this is the way things are. Maybe it's just human nature. We can't go back into history and change the course of events to prevent things like WWII or 9/11 or slavery. So getting angry about it or dwelling (hating) on our enemies is only feeding the unnecessary. We have to take the moment as is and see how we can move forward, while remembering that things will never go precisely as we want them to go and there will be many sour moments.

    We can never completely right the past. So at some point we simply have to forgive or forget and move on.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2010
  11. johnnysays

    johnnysays Well-Known Member

    Shaming someone is less effective than educating them about the way out.

    I don't honestly believe people are THAT in control of their lives. That's giving them too much credit. The top 10 percent of our population owns 90% of the worlds resources. So that means 90 percent of us are lazy and unproductive? Just because it's not obvious why someone is making bad choices or is not getting better, does not mean it's all their fault.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2010
  12. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    I have to agree with this. My words and feelings exactly.Blessings..
     
  13. iammary

    iammary Member

    Doesn't any body believe in mercy suicide. My mother suffer for 6 long years.
    She new I did drugs and ask me to get her some so she could kill herself, I told her no , but after seeing her suffer and now I have the same disease I regret not helping her.
     
  14. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member


    No, it is murder to me. I believe that Yahweh can heal everyone of all suffering, as I have been healed. Blessings..
     
  15. TrentGrad

    TrentGrad Well-Known Member

    It's a hard topic! I do understand the perspective that it seems cruel to ask someone who is in a state of constant suffering to continue that suffering so that those who know and love them do not suffer.

    However I have to admit, I also think it is selfish...perhaps more selfish...to take one's life.

    Why?

    Well first off, I have to say that in general, I resent the move to "mend fences" when a person is tranquil about the decision because it is, for all intents and purposes, self serving! They get to wash away the bad feelings themselves, whilst denying others that same right...and we know why: because if they admitted they were going to commit suicide, their friends and/or family would almost certainly resort hospitalization or the police.

    Secondly, no matter how hard those who take their lives try to spin it, the reality is that their family and friends will never get over the action. They will forever ask themselves what they should have, could have and neglected to do; they will forever beat themselves up over any perceived slight.

    Thirdly, on a quantative basis, suicide usually leaves more victims than it takes. Parents, siblings, friends, other relations, co-workers...the potential list of those impacted usually spills far beyond one!

    Finally, there is always the possibility that suicide may inspire someone else! When George Chuvalo takes stock of the losses in his family, he can see that one son took his life, one died of a drug overdose, and the combination of this led to his wife's suicide. Did the first son mean to kill his mother? Of course not...but he contributed in at least part.

    We never know how far the impacts of suicide go because it is internalized to great extent!

    On the flip side, I think society has to begin looking at mental illness in a new way. The reality is that most mental health ailments either have a high risk of recurrance, or may never be rectified.

    If someone is suffering with cancer, and treatment is unsuccessful, then society tends to be forgiving of euthanasia- perhaps society should be as forgiving for someone who suffers debilitating mental health conditions that destroy their quality of life!

    However to be honest, I can't describe it as anything BUT selfish for a person to take their life before they've exhausted any and all treatment options!
     
  16. Things

    Things Well-Known Member

    Oh I agree completely. It's just many people believe that shame works (ever seen abstinence programs?).

    "No, it is murder to me. I believe that Yahweh can heal everyone of all suffering, as I have been healed. Blessings.. "

    Better to die quickly and painlessly than to suffer slowly.
     
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