selfishness vs. selfishness

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by thought, Aug 29, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. thought

    thought New Member

    Good Evening all,

    I am new to the forums and I have a question I would like to pose to all of you. First however, a bit of backround.

    I think about suicide about once a week and seriously consider it at least once a month.

    The reason I come here is that a while ago I sunk into a deep depression. I was tired all of the time and didn't even have the energy to smile. I could not even get myself to eat, as if by eating I would prolong my feelings. Every where I went I would look and see different ways to end my life. I did not talk to anyone as I was/am afraid of affection and pity. I continued to get slower and stopped laughing. A few weeks went by and my mother (I was 17 and still living with my parents) asked if something was wrong. I replied "I want to blow my fucking brains out".
    After that she told me how selfish suicide was and of how I would hurt so many people.

    My response was that it was more selfish to keep the suicidal person alive. To endure a pain so great it causes them override what is thought to be our natural instinct.

    As you are on this forum you must understand the suffering a suicidal person goes through. Which do you think is more "selfish"?
    As you can only prove that you think, are your thoughts more important than the thoughts of others?

    I hope this finds you in calm spirits,
  2. Menchi

    Menchi Well-Known Member

    Its a logical quandry which depends entirely from your own perspective. (and the first thing i will say is that being "selfish" isn't neccessarily a bad thing)

    For suicide, it depends entirely on the circumstances, and there tends to be three "logics" in suicide. I wont go into the debate of whether or not these logics are justified or right, just as a part of how a person feelss.

    The first is that someone believes that its not only in their own benefit, but for the benefit of everyone that they commit suicide, if they believe that they are a cause of harm in others, a drain on others etc. This is entirely unselfish, even though the logic may only be to try and make it easier to commit the act, because the individual is considering others.

    The second is that a person is preoccupied with their own pain, and only considers suicide in terms of that "i hurt so much, i can't take this any more". This is somewhat selfish, as it is someone absorbed in themselves, and their own feelings. But it also isn't usually intentionally disregarding the feelings of others, its just that someones own pain drowns out any other thought.

    Finally, there is suicide because of external sources of pain, maybe because of something someone else has done to them, a break-up or abuse or something. This is entirely unselfish, simply because the logic involved, while not neccessarily true, doesn't ignore others (there are too many depths of this to go into great detail).

    As for the other side, living for other people... Its a hard one to analyse. It depends on whether the person saying it, actually means other people in general, or other people as in them. It can be considered somewhat selfish, simply because it is what they think is right, disregarding your pain and feelings, if stated that bluntly. But it can also be used as a motivational statement, simply because if someone suicidal isn't strong enough to live for themselves, they still might find it in them to live for others for a time.

    So basically, its 9 in the morning, i'm wrecked tired, so am probably not structuring my thoughts well, but i think comparing "selfishness" in these two statements is pretty much impossible, as there is a lot of the logic and emotion behind them missing, and even with that, its not really something that can be compared.
  3. Madison_Rose

    Madison_Rose Active Member

    It's a difficult one. The fact that people would miss me is on my "reasons to live" list, but it's not I reason I ever found particularly compelling. When you get to the stage where you're desperate enough to kill yourself, other people's feelings just don't seem real, in my experience. My chain of thought goes "Sorry guys, but it's my life, and I'll end it if I feel I must."

    If someone kills hirself out of a feeling sie can't take it any more (not because sie feels like a burden), it think, in a non-judgemental kind of way, it is selfish. It's a subtle distinction: I think suicide is selfish, because it's something you do for yourself, but no blame attatches, because you just can't feel other people's feelings, you're ill.

    I don't think it's unethical to prevent a depressed person killing hirself. Often, people can be treated, they can feel better, they can get to a stage where they look back and they're glad they lived. Also, the friends and family of the depressed person will likely be very glad.
  4. Account Closed

    You are right, most people are selfish even if they think otherwise!
    they say its selfish to harm others by suicide
    but its also selfish to let one suffer just so that others wont right?
    so i dont know about others, but as far as i know that most people are selfish
    including my parents, and i will kill myself eventually, in my note i will write:

    "if you want to feel sorry about yourself, go ahead, its your right
    but i felt sorry for my self for my entire life, and i made my choice to end it
    i am a grown up man, if you respect me for who i am, then you will respect my choice"

    Ah yes, and its the modern selfish society is the one that banned suicide!
    Samurai's committed suicide for many reasons
    from a shame to a broken heart
    and to relief their family from the burden of taking care of them
    in all cases it was a honorable thing to do!
  5. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    the key here as others have been pointing out is all in the perspective!
    simple really.
  6. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    I like to view it as communism vs. capitalism. In a communist system, the group is more important than the individual so you should suck up the horrible depression and stay alive. Under capitalism, fuck the rest, make the depression go away.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.