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Should Britain Leave The European Union?

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by Aquarius123, Jun 27, 2016.

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  1. Aquarius123

    Aquarius123 Well-Known Member

    Second EU Referendum


    If you are one of the British citizens who do not want to leave the European Union and have not yet signed the petition for a second referendum, please follow the link below:

    Click the green button ‘Sign here’ and follow the instructions.​

    The petition at this moment has already 3,837,822 signatures.​

    We, the undersigned, call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.

    With love – Aquarius

    * * *​
  2. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    From the States but very happy Britain decided to leave. They deserve the right of self governance.
  3. Corvette

    Corvette Active Member

    This topic is so complicated. I was so shocked when the results were coming in on the box one by one. It was true popcorn reaching stuff.
    Aquarius123 likes this.
  4. Brittless

    Brittless Well-Known Member

    def think Britain should stay for their own good.
    Aquarius123 likes this.
  5. DrownedFishOnFire

    DrownedFishOnFire Seeing is Believing Forum Pro SF Supporter

    over the pond......as long as majority of you guys are happy and want this.... as long all can be smart with micro and macro economical decision think it'll be alright
    BadWolf22 likes this.
  6. Louise K

    Louise K Active Member

    Duly signed
  7. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN SF Author

    Whatever you think or do not think about whether Britain should leave the EU, it was a democratic vote. You can't just say "lets vote again" because you didn't like the outcome - that isn't how democracy works.

    Honestly, the nasty pettiness of people after the vote disgusts me. People exercised their democratic right to vote, without fear of reprisal (is how it is MEANT to work) for what they wanted. Then the people describing the people who voted to leave as bigoted and racist and narrow-minded are exactly the people who want to throw democracy out of the window because they didn't get their own way. The scaremongering and pettiness and - seriously? Drumming up people on a suicide site to go sign a petition to ignore a democratic vote?? Really??

    And this petition is basically saying unless over 60% of the people want to leave we should stay... why should the "stay" vote only need 40% to win but the "leave" vote should need 60% to win?

    Lets apply it to something else shall we... everyone votes to decide whether or not slavery should remain legal. Everyone gets a say but the people who want to abolish slavery need 33.3% MORE VOTES to get rid of it than the people who want to keep it. That's fair right?

    There should not be a "second vote". You don't just keep voting until the people screaming the loudest get the result they want.

    Good grief.
  8. Brittless

    Brittless Well-Known Member

    hmm. I have to defend Aquarius. Drumming up people on a suicide site? It's something she's passionate about and I think she should share her passion. She's not forcing anyone to sign. She's just giving the option. (sorry if Aquarius is a he, didn't check) And from what I've heard and read, there was a lot of misinformation thrown around during the campaigning on both sides and facts weren't disclosed. People were hurt and affected when Britain split from the EU, even people that voted leave. So if people did not know everything and do know more now than before and people want a re-vote that's as democratic as anything else.

    The thing I will agree with is the percentages aren't fair.
  9. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN SF Author

    Firstly - I was not intending to attack Aquarius and when I read it back, it does sound that way, so I apologise to Aquarius.

    Secondly - Britain has not split from the EU so any effect currently is a manufactured effect. Britain is still in the EU - there have been no alterations to any trade agreements. If people were incapable of discerning misinformation in the run up to the vote, why would they be any better at discerning misinformation after the fact? The anti-leave propaganda paints pictures of horror and a tanking economy - the pro-leave cite the highest employment in years, stock indexes that are higher than France or Germany who are still "in" and predictions from the world monetary organisations that show a growth on the British economy by the end of 2016 second only to the United States. The fact that people are afraid because the media is doing their damndest to make them afraid, and that the "pro stay" camp are so utterly vitriolic and vocal about "the people who destroyed the country" by voting leave, should not mean a 'second vote'. Fear is not a good reason to ignore a democratic voice and disenfranchise over half of the people who chose to vote. There is already massive apathy in this country around voting and whether or not to "bother" as it makes no difference. How can you expect to get a genuine representative result on a second vote, if you just told millions of people that their vote doesn't count?

    The fact is that it should never ever have been put to a referendum in the first place. It was a stupid thing to put to a public vote - but it was, and democracy did its thing.

    I really don't care about Europe or Not Europe - I do care about living in a country that tosses out a democratic process because people 'don't like it' after the fact. And I question whether or not the people who are signing petitions to throw out a democratic vote in favour of a system so blatantly undemocratic as to say one side should have to have a third more votes than the other to win actually understand the premise of a fair vote in any case. (Once again - not attacking anyone - just a genuine concern for the view of fairness that allows for saying 'the side I wanted to win should need 33% fewer votes than the side I don't want to win).
  10. Brittless

    Brittless Well-Known Member

    I see where you're coming from and yes, I should have said Britain is in the process of splitting from the EU, but that doesn't mean people haven't been affected. This decision has caused certain markets to fall and/or crash as well as the pounds value to drop (and that's the decision).. So, of course people have been affected. I don't think it's the end all death trap for the UK that the media makes it out to be. Well, from what I've heard and what I've read, more information has come out about the intention of those campaigners for the leave decision and the lies that were spread.

    If democracy works the way it is supposed to then there should be no fear of a second vote as long as the petition is fair (which in this case it's not) and I truly think that people would take the time to inform themselves and/or have felt the affects of the decision and possibly changed their mind. It may even cause those that didn't vote to crawl out of their holes and vote this time. Furthermore, this new vote would include all of those votes of those that voted before so it's not as if they are being silenced. They have the option of voting again. And the outcome could even be the same. They may not like having to do it again, but their vote still matters. A petition is as democratic as anything else like I said. It requires signatures of the people, then if it goes to vote again it does it's job. That being said, I'm not disputing the fact that this particular petition's conditions are unfair, but if it were, then in my eyes there would be no issue.

    If the outcome is the same as it was before then the brexiters would just point and laugh, but if it's not then the people will have spoken again. I'm not arguing that in particular that the people's decision should be thrown out. I'm simply arguing that a petition, if fair, is as much of the people as the vote is. That's why we have the ability to petition.
  11. Aquarius123

    Aquarius123 Well-Known Member

    Thank you all for your comments. For some time I have been working on a new part of my jottings about the God's great plan of life and how it has always been unfolding in our world. Naturally, the latest European Union developments are part of it. Please bear with me and wait till I share my insights into this theme with you here. With love - Aquarius
  12. Louise K

    Louise K Active Member

    Final thought on the matter Aquarius:

    From a religious point of view we are all one. The third world has been redefined as the developing world, proving we are all one; the only thing that makes us separate from each other is organised religious beliefs (Catholics/Methodists JW's/Mormons/Muslims) to name a very few

    As for ISIS, who claim to be Muslim, they are of no religion (established or not). They just play the Muslim/Islam card to try to justify the genocide they commit.

    Talking of which there is a video (possibly from ISIS) on a certain video platform (Not YT) that is too true, I reckon, to be real; not acting.

    There is no way it would be acceptable for me to post a link to said video on here; not even by pm.

    I have pm'd the link to friends on FB for their opinion. Only two reckoned it was acting out of the twenty friends I pm'd the link toa
  13. Louise K

    Louise K Active Member

    If anyone is interested then pm me. I wont post a link to it; but I am prepared to give you a brief sypnosis.

    Perhaps admin or mods could advise me if it is ok to explain (not post a link to it) the content of said video

    My guess would be not even a brief sypnosis pm let alone public
  14. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I am not in UK so will keep my comments strictly to the democracy issue- Democracy is typically a majority vote- so why should that suddenly change? And while 3.5 million signatures on a ballot seems like a lot- is millions and millions less than voted to leave or stay- so is just a small percentage of people that did vote before trying to change the results of the last vote isn't it? I am not implying should stay or leave- I have no skin in the game on that one... but I know how I would feel about efforts to change the results of an election here- and would question it anywhere. The claims of not enough people paid attention- not enough people voted- that is a failure on their part- or perhaps not- maybe is just saying what it implies- they did not have an opinion strong enough to feel the urge to bother to vote on it....
  15. Aquarius123

    Aquarius123 Well-Known Member

    In my view, a bit of plain ordinary human kindness and friendliness towards each other does go a long way towards making our lives more pleasant and agreeable, in many small ways. That's where freedom of choice enters the picture. Do you personally – never mind what those around you are thinking and how they are perceiving the matter – wish for the negative and destructive ways of the past to continue or would you prefer that our world moves forwards and upwards on the evolutionary spiral of life? The future of our world lies in the hands of simple folks like you and me. The more of us together move in the same direction, the more we as a race grow into an increasingly powerful force. An unknown author said: ‘Many small people, in many small places, doing many small things can alter the face of our world.’ This is very true and the seemingly impossible dream of a peaceful world will in due course become a reality, for the simple reason that God and the Angels will be working with us and helping us to bring it into being.

    From The Impossible Dream’

    * * *​
  16. jxdama

    jxdama Staff Member Safety & Support

    If they had a second vote and voted to stay should they then have a third vote? 4th vote? 5th vote? I think they are lucky to be out of the union.
  17. taniababy

    taniababy Member

    We have had our say now lets just get on with it. Whatever happens our lives will go on good and bad. At the end of the day we are a tiny planet floating around in a massive universe - it should somehow be simpler...
    Aquarius123 likes this.
  18. Aquarius123

    Aquarius123 Well-Known Member

    I believe that much good will come out of it in the end and share your views on the matter.
  19. Yes they should. Every nation needs to dictate its own destiny.
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