So do you think it is right or wrong--not religiously--to kill yourself?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by ToHelp, Sep 20, 2008.

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  1. ToHelp

    ToHelp Well-Known Member

    We are a pro-life forum.

    Well, we sure try to be.

    But the question arises in my mind... given these facts of life for SOME of us--in your opinion--can a person really be held in contempt (or think comptemptable) for just cutting the drama short when there is suffering?

    I mean goddamn they euthanize DOGS, for Christ's sakes. They euthanize animals out of compassion for their suffering.

    So weigh in but please--if you will honor my request as topic starter--refrain from sharing religious convictions so that we can have a more secular examination of the discussion.

    -JOHN-
     
  2. gentlelady

    gentlelady Staff Alumni

    Since this topic can be one of debate I am moving it to the sopabox forum.
     
  3. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    I think suicide is from the devil.

    Just kidding.

    Non-religiously, I think you are taking any potential good that you could ever do in this world and putting and end to it. I think suicide for the most part is a failure to acknowledge the fact that things can and usually DO get better. No-one lives in a bubble and suicide is bound to hurt many, many people. Just look at how many people on here found this site for the simple reason that they are in despair over another person's suicide. I think the selfless thing to do is to continue on with life in order to avoid hurting others.

    So, non-religiously, is suicide wrong? Yes.
     
  4. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    I think we often, in situations like ours [ie. suicidal], ignore the things that people try to do to make us happy. I don't think it's fair to those people in our lives to kill ourselves.

    This forum is actually quite uplifting. Everyone here is in their own personal world of shit, but we all do our best to support eachother. So it's not fair to SF to kill ourselves after getting people here emotionally involved in our problems.
     
  5. ToHelp

    ToHelp Well-Known Member

    This statement is just inaccurate. Really. I mean, you need only glance in the largest forum ON Suicide Forums to find many people who have absolutely have no one in their lives.

    "I think the selfless thing to do is to continue on with life in order to avoid hurting others."

    And that's saying "SUICIDE IS SELFISH." MANY people in years of dispair, and on here vehemently disagree with this contention.

    -JOHN-
     
  6. smokeystokey

    smokeystokey New Member

    For the person who completes suicide, NO- they see it as their only way to escape from their unbearable life.

    For the person(s) left behind, YES- for me personally, I have never before been affected by suicide. I have never before contemplated suicide.........until recently. The love of my life committed suicide 9 weeks, 4 days, 12 hours & 18 minutes ago. Every one of those weeks, hours, minutes & days has been hell on earth for me & his Mother, sister, brother, daughter, son & friends.

    So, how do I face life without the love of my life? Do I take the same way out???

    :confused:
     
  7. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member


    The people who say they have no-one are 9 times in 10, deluded. How many people HONESTLY have not ONE single person who will be hurt by their death?

    And of COURSE suicidal people don't think suicide is selfish. That's because they are not in their right minds. If you think about it rationally, suicide is by its very nature a totally selfish act.
     
  8. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    The pain a suicidal person feels is not always obvious to anyone other than his or herself. In fact, it usually isn't. Their reasons often don't make sense. I think, sometimes, they take things with them when they go that nobody will ever know about. There are things we all keep inside. Things that are unexplainable. So it's hard to make a blanket statement about it.
     
  9. Victori@

    Victori@ Well-Known Member

    In some cases, Suicide is inevitable… Some people will die of old age, freak accidents, illness (cancer ECT..), murder, nature (hurricanes, tornadoes…) and suicide. My heart goes out to the people who end their lives and to those who they leave behind. Some people will choose to end their own lives and that is just their time to go, just as those people who die of other causes. Hopefully more of us can stick around and fight through our troubled times and live a little longer.

    There are so much more recourses available to mentally ill people. And it’s only up to us to reach out and ask for help!! We all need help sometimes!

    This was written in the common room of the hospital I was in

    “You are not responsible for your illness. You are responsible for you recovery.”
     
  10. ToHelp

    ToHelp Well-Known Member

    Smokeystokey, I was nearly without words to express my sorrow for you. My heart reaches out to you. There really can't be a worse experience except perhaps for that of a parent losing a child, the ultimate unnantural sequence in life.

    Hi Ana :flowers:
    Well, that opens a whole different can of icky worm as to whether offing yourself can be a logical, sane, and rational act (see my next post).

    I'm one started this topic and with no hidden agenda. (I promise! lol) The fact of the matter is - whether I LIKE it not, you are wholehearedly entitled to express your opinion and position.

    And you know what else? I really respect you for it! :yes:

    My currently being in an unremitting really stubborn :mad: ) depression bestows upon me absolutely no "authority" on the question at hand.

    My personal misery means not a damn thing objectively, really--despite how I responded to you at first.

    Anastasia, thanks for weighing in, eh? :hug:

    -JOHN-
     
  11. ToHelp

    ToHelp Well-Known Member

    MY answer:

    LOL, my answer is that I can't believe I posed (worded) the question that way. There is practically -no- penultimate answer to this, as the question is conditional to too many variables.

    I cannot even answer it! C'mon John "right" or "wrong"?

    Hey, it's a great example of the ultimate rhetorical question, for the answer is both or even none.

    Boo, Johnny. :thumbdown An amateur mistake.

    Question is too damned broad. I'm giving myself an "F" failing grade for this topic, though I know what precipitated this--I promised a link (see #54} whilst in the midst of expressing rapt anger and frustration.

    Still. I fancy myself a writer. I shoulda know'd better.

    -JOHN-
     
  12. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    I think you're conflating two very different things here. First, you seem to be looking for some sort of general principle or set of such principles that would offer bright line guidance where suicide is acceptable under the circumstances when Proposition (a), or Propostions (a) (b) and (c) is/are true. Second, you seem to be seeking sanction from the board that suicide would acceptable under your personal circumstances as outlined in that link.

    Let's start with the second case: I don't think seeking sanction for suicide from someone else is appropriate under any circumstances. If you feel you must commit suicide, I think it stands to reason that the decision be your own, with no expectation of support or understanding from anyone. And that you should have, if not an absolute confidence that you're doing the right thing, a very strong sense that what you're doing is correct and very few doubts. Otherwise under no circumstances should you proceed. So, I think in your case...(a) your question is unfair to anyone it is asked of, and (b) the very fact that you're asking this question leads me to think you've got far too many doubts to proceed, at least for the present.

    Note that this is not exactly a pro-life position, because quite frankly I do not ascribe to that belief. I do think suicide can be a rational decision under a wide range of circumstances, but that in practice, in the majority of cases it probably is not. I also think it is a personal decision, and is the responsibility of the person making it, perhaps excluding only the extremes of schizophrenia or cases where the sufferer is clearly delusional. Hopefully this third paragraph will allow you to understand my position in the first and second paragraphs in light of my personal beliefs. In any event, I don't think anything I'm saying can definitely be proven or disproven, that it veers at best into the realm of informed opinion.

    As to the first idea, I might agree to this, but I've honestly had no luck developing such a principle or set of general principles that covers all cases, or even comes close to being able to do so myself. I'm now skeptical that it can be done. Again, at best, I think the only thing an invididual can do is set out their own personal standards and proceed based upon them. And on a topic like suicide they should neither expect nor seek out affirmation from another person if they decide to proceed. I could doubtless type on on this topic until I put everyone reading this post to sleep, but I think I'll stop there. Perhaps someday I'll inflict a detailed writing of my thoughts on this on the board. Caveat emptor. :tongue:

    Again, none of the above rises above the level of informed opinion. I don't see how objectivity is possible on this topic, nor I suppose even a meeting of the minds. What I'm planning on trying to do is some reading on this sort of sociobiological Pinker vs. Gould sort of thing where there's one group that holds a great deal of our outlook is biologically determined vs. the 'tabula rasa' group that seems to think the human mind is very near infinitely malleable. For the moment I ascribe to the former position, but perhaps that is wrong.
     
  13. me1

    me1 Well-Known Member

    People that commit suicide are behaving no differently to people who perform any other self-destructive act which ultimately culminates in their dying prematurely. Anybody that condemns suicide but condones any of these other acts are being hypocritical.




     
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