So what do you think about eating meat?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Cooki, Aug 4, 2015.

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  1. Cooki

    Cooki Well-Known Member

    I've been thinking about the pros and cons of the consumption of meat for quite a while now. I don't like the idea that innocent animals have to suffer and die for us to eat hamburgers and all that. On the other side, I was always told that eating meat is normal, natural and necessary. I disagree with the last one since there are people that live vegetarian and even vegan and don't die from that so meat can't be necessary. Natural and normal depend on the point of view I think. Of course, humans are omnivores and you can clearly see that when you look at the human teeth but I don't think it's natural or normal that animals are held in really small cages and fed antibiotics and hormones just so their meat will grow faster and all that. What do you people think?
  2. flowers

    flowers Senior Member

    hi there cooki. It is my understanding that there are some people who do beautifully eating a vegetarian or vegan diet. And there are those who do not. I have known many who's philosophical and ethical standards caused them to pursue a vegan or vegetarian diet. Some are quite healthy. Others not so much. They began to feel less energy and health. Often they did not realize the difference until they went back to eating animal or fish protein.

    why? Because some people's ancestry/ DNA lineage are such that their body can tolerate plant based proteins while others not. Best example I know of is one in the autobiography of the Dali Lama written many decades ago. He and his group, for obvious reasons wanted to stop eating meat. They went to a very healthful and thoughtfully planned plant based diet. But they became so ill that it was obvious to them that they could not peersist. They had to resume animal based eating for optimum health. Of course this was a dissapointment. But they understood that it was the only way for them.

    Why did this happen? The lineage of his/their DNA is that of yak eaters (The mountains ofTibet). One man I know who was for years a vegan for years tells of how when he finally went back to eating meat he realized how unhealthy he had felt as a vegan. He used the analogy of folks in China trying to live healthfully without rice. It is part of their Body genetic DNA. On the other hand, I know people who are very healthy as vegans. I am friends with a woman who has seen thousands of clients over the years. She has noticed how some who were vegans and went back to animal protein in their diet regained health and strength. While of course others do very well with vegan or vegetarian eating.

    So, if you feel drawn to do it, give vegan living a try. See how you feel. It may be perfect for you. It certainly is for some of MY friends. If you feel less healthy while being vegan or vegetarian, then blame it on your distant ancestry :whistle: If so, then hopefully there would then be ways to buy your food from local people who raise their chickens, etc in a kind humane way. And who also are careful about how they are killed. Perhaps some day all of us will do well on plant based diet.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2015
  3. Cooki

    Cooki Well-Known Member

    Wow, I didn't know that Oo I always thought that everyone could eat vegetarian/vegan but they just wouldn't do so o_O As for me, my parents won't let me stop eating meat and drinking milk and all that because "it's normal, natural and necessary" -.- The funny thing is that I usually feel better when I'm at my aunt's place in the holidays for a week because she's a vegetarian and doesn't make me eat meat (while my uncle does make me eat meat which is one of the reasons why I don't like him xD) and usually I lose a bit of my weight during that time ^^
  4. Moat

    Moat Banned Member

    Humans are omnivores, it is in our diet to eat both meat and friuit and vegetables (not to mention dailry products) and from what I have discovered,, while there is nothng much wrong with going pure Vegan or vegetarian,, meat holds a lot of vitaminds and minerals that the body desperately requires in each daily uptake to maintain energy and the brain running strong and grow to get though the day, be it work, school, children playing in the play ground or even exercising.
  5. DrownedFishOnFire

    DrownedFishOnFire Quieta non movere

    How do we find out about DNA? Very interesting explaination, I want to find my eating lineage
  6. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    It doesnt get much better than bacon. Or a juicy, grilled beef patty for that matter.
  7. Aquarius123

    Aquarius123 Well-Known Member

    I have been a vegetarian for many years. It puzzles me why so many say they love animals and then at the next meal go ahead and eat them! That doesn't make any sense to me. If you love animals, you surely love all of them and not merely domesticated ones like cats, dogs, rabbits and horses etc.

    With love - Aquarius
  8. Cooki

    Cooki Well-Known Member

    Well, I personally think that humans shouldn't eat eggs and milk since THAT definitely isn't what nature wanted us to do by making us omnivores. Okay, maybe eggs are okay, some animals eat other animals' eggs too, but milk..? I once read an article written by a woman who is a doctor and wants to help poor people in a hot country (don't remember which country it was) and when she came there she braught some goats with her since they could drink their milk then and when the goats are getting old they can still eat their meat. The people there refused to steal the food from the goats' babys (aka they didn't drink their milk because that's the food for the goat babys) and that's what made her overthink what we call normal. Of course there are vitamins and minerals in meat which are important but you can get everything necessary out of plants too, just that it's harder work for the human body to get that stuff out of plants because it's in another form.
  9. Growing Pains

    Growing Pains Well-Known Member

    Some people can't afford to go vegan or vegetarian. I cannot. It's a bit classist to assume any one dietary choice is possible for everyone. This problem should be looked at from not only a moral point of view, but social and economic as well. Eating meat is not inherently immoral. If it were, animals would be immoral, too. What is immoral is how many of the animals are treated. Big difference between the hunter and the small farmer... and the factory.

    Most of the points have been covered, but consider my point aboug class. As a poor person, my options are limited. Many people in poverty live in food deserts. We don't have the privilege of worrying whether our food had a face, because it's the only food we have.which is why I eat the hamburger and love animals. My point in bringing this up is that it's a complicated issue that stretches way beyond moral and immoral. It ties into many other issues regarding food, especially food availability and factory farms.

    And humans are the same genetically. All of us. We are more different individually than we are genetically. Our ability to adapt to any diet is why we have thrived so long. We're pretty freaking hardy. The Americas before Euro peoples arribed made due with largely corn in some areas due to lack of game, and fish in others. This was adaptation, not genetic differences. With some exceptions, we could all adapt to a vegan or vegetarian diet. Genetic differences are individual.

    Anyone becomes ill after a diet change, because you have to let yourself adapt to it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2015
  10. caspar

    caspar Well-Known Member

    I have never heard this before, I would like to see a source. If it is true I would speculate that it is only true for an extremely small amount of people. Maybe people like the inuits who don't have much plants growing around them and survive mainly on meat (this is one of the excusable reasons for eating meat imo - for survival).

    The fact is that most people who don't do well on a vegetarian/vegan diet don't eat the right foods, so probably become low in certain vitamins and minerals. It's easy to be veggie tbh, but you do have to learn about nutrition along the way, eg about plant sources of protein, omega 3 fatty acids, iron and calcium. There is nothing in meat & diary that you can't get from plant sources. Also I do agree with you that diet is individual, so some people do better eating low fat, more protein, and it's about tweaking your veggie diet so it works for you.

    Very much agreed. I had to confront my own hypocrisy on this, as a self professed animal lover, I couldn't keep on eating meat. To say one animal is more worthy of life on the other, or that humans are 'better' than animals is just speciesism and has no evidence. The one thing that differentiates us from animals is that we have a conscience, so we should use that to do chose not to harm other creatures sharing our planet. We don't own the plant, we share it. And being veggie is one of the biggest ways to make difference environmentally, so it helps our planet too.

    Seriously? The staples of a vegetarian/vegan diet are rice, beans, lentils, potatoes, bread, vegetables, fruit (not necessarily expensive fruit - bananas, apples, oranges, frozen fruit, whatever's cheapest). They are all relatively cheap. I'm poor myself and I eat primarily vegan. There's no need to buy meat or cheese substitutes. Many of the poorest countries in the world eat mostly vegetarian diets - India, China, parts of South America. Meat is seen as a luxury item there. The only reason meat is cheaper in the US is because of the absolutely atrocious farming practices.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2015
  11. onebody

    onebody New Member

    I personally have tried being a vegetarian on-and-off. I studied the best foods/combinations to eat, followed guidelines, etc. Every time, I have the same experience as described above: I become iron and other vitamin deficient, become ill, lose energy, etc. I just can not do it, so accept it. It took many years for me to accept that I do have to eat meat on a semi-regular basis for my body to work right. It would be nice if other people could accept this as well.

    My ancestry is extreme northern European, so might be a genetic thing?

    Additionally, I have been unable to work for the past several years. This obviously led to being extremely poor, since the safety net has been destroyed (at least in my case) in the US. When you go to a food bank, they give you an extremely (to me) large amount of meat as part of your 'allowance'. So it is eat meat or starve. Just the way it is.

    So while in theory I would prefer to be a vegetarian, I can not be one. Just some things to consider.
  12. flowers

    flowers Senior Member

    caspar. I do not supply "sources" for information beyond what I initially write. ( the autobiography of the Dali Lama, in this case) i have found that when people need proof, usually no amount of proof I can provide would suffice. So decades ago I gave up providing sources in addition to what I originally write. Sorry. Hope you are well
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2015
  13. afterlifepig

    afterlifepig Well-Known Member

    meat is usually tasty if you prepare it right. some beans can be tasty too if you know how to prepare them but most varieties are bland. also they don't have a complete protein by themselves if what i've been told is correct. most beans are loaded with carbs too which can be good or bad depending on your diet

    soy protein products are tasty but have insecticides - weak estrogens called phytoestrogens and enzyme inhibitors

    so meat is the easiest way to get tasty nutrition, basically. but a vegan/vegetarian diet is also viable and is arguably more ethical
  14. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    I personally think meat eating is a necessity. Not for health or taste or nutrition. Let me say this on the ethics, i hunt. Hunting is a far more ethical option than any other. Firstly on intensive farming. My food is not crammed into small byres, my food is not chemically and medically treated especially with sub-therapeutic doses of antibiotics (causing damage to our microbiomes and also risking superbugs) My food has lived a completely natural life. It has eaten organically, it has had freedom. And most importantly, it was killed quickly and humanely by me. This isnt even bringing the massive economic and ecological damage intensive farms can do! ergo i prefer my hunted meats to farmed meat. Speaking of farms, one permission i hunt on had 370 bales less of hay this year due to crop damage, meaning he will have to buy bales in in order to survive the winter. This does then bring me to the ethics of veganism. Vegans love crops, veganism is also a very modern affluent lifestyle choice. i Bet anyone to survive on only what they can find naturally all year round. But my point here is vegans often state they wish to be no part of an animals death, that it is more ethical. This argument fails completely. Rabbits in the UK cause over £100 million in damages every year, DEFRA statistics. Then there are deer, woodpigeon, hares to name but a few, all do damage to crops and are massively overpopulated (deer are so numerous the government is considering a 50% cull nationwide.) Now if it wasnt for someone like me with ferrets and a pocketful of nets, these vermin would eat all the vegans crops. to stop this we need to kill animals regardless of how cute and fluffy they are. If you want to eat, animals need to die. Like books? Animals need to die. Enjoy using your laptop? Animals need to die (deer populations are culled die to damage around forestries and stearic acid from animals is used in the production of computers)
    Basically what im saying is....My food is far healthier, more ethical and tastier.
    If you want to eat meat, at least buy game meats!

    Rant over :D
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