Socially Acceptable

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by roksy, May 15, 2012.

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  1. roksy

    roksy Well-Known Member

    I have been going through a tough time trying to shake away the feeling of suicidality in my mind but I don't seem to be able to. Sometimes I think that if suicide is socially acceptable I would have done it a long time ago. Does anyone feel the same thing?

    Please let me know.


  2. lav11

    lav11 Well-Known Member

    hey roksy,
    sorry your feeling like this.. Some people decide not to suicide due to family, others friends, some because they believe it is a sin, as you pointed out socially unacceptable etc etc. There are a lot of reasons why people decide not to go through with this suicidal way of thinking...

    I personally have never not attempted as i thought that it was socially unacceptable and have a general line of thinking that i dont care if people know that ive attempted before, however i have also put off attempting for many other reasons some listed above, mainly cause i dont want to leave my friends to deal with my death alone.

    But i know you are also not alone in trying to put off attempting as it is generally socially unacceptable..

    i wish you the best of luck in getting through these difficult times
  3. Prox

    Prox Active Member

    What does social acceptability have to do with justifying suicide? You know you'll be dead before they can judge you, right?

    What I think you mean is that everyone who needs, loves and appreciates you will feel like you abandoned them because life was just too hard for you. But thwn it's not about what's "socially acceptable", it's about what "will break your loved ones' hearts".
  4. roksy

    roksy Well-Known Member

    Thanks lav11.


    Yes as you mentioned one will be dead before anyone can judge. But leading the road to suicide alone without anyone around you is difficult. How can one be proud of their life if one has to live their life in shame. Most sicknesses people are allowed to experience death, for instance cancer or liver disease ... etc. but when it comes to depression it is socially unacceptable to suffer and when it becomes debilitating one is expected to recover. Which makes it even more difficult for a person to go on with their life.
  5. lav11

    lav11 Well-Known Member

    when roksy mentioned socially acceptable i figured like if you made an attempt and survived maybe that would come back to being socially unacceptable


    that if you die and you get spoken about as doing an act (suicide) which is socially unacceptable and haveing a bad.. cant think of the word.. but like a mark against your name for commiting suicide...
    Ive been worried that id be known as the 'girl who suicided' when makeing an attempt... that would relate to being socially unacceptable

    please do correct me if im wrong
  6. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    I don't care if it's "socially acceptable" or not. There are only two reasons why I haven't done it yet: because I still cling to the slightest shred of hope for my life, and because I'm kind of afraid to. What if I try and don't succeed, and end up paralyzed or something stupid like that? Or what if I try and succeed, only to end up in a worse place than I'm already at? What if there is an afterlife and it sucks worse than this life? There are many reasons to not commit suicide. Social acceptability is not one of them. Like Prox said, you'll be dead. Kind of hard to fit in socially when you're no longer alive. I've never been accepted socially anyway.

    I'm already ashamed of my life. So much so that suicide would almost be honorable, compared to staying here taking up space and resources for nothing. I contribute little to the world anyway and very few people would actually miss me. Some would probably be glad that I was gone.
  7. roksy

    roksy Well-Known Member

    It seems my previous reply did not go through. Here is what I tried to say:

    lav11 yes this is what I am trying to say. Everyone tries to have pride in what they do. It is not easy to find this pride. It sucks that I have these suicidal thoughts and I don't know what to make of them.
  8. lav11

    lav11 Well-Known Member

    i have attempted more times then i can count for...
    One of my most recent attempts left my in a wheel chair for 2 months or so and i was extremely extremely close to becoming a paraplegic for the rest of my life... that is not the news you want to here when you finally regain conscience again...
    But the fact that i was locked up in hospital for 3 months with no other reason then i was too weak to stay alive.. I had one of my school teachers come into the hospital to vistit me.. as nice as that was, do you know how embarassing it is to know everyone know that you attempted to suicide? im saying alot of people on this forum would know that feeling, and a lot of the time its not nice...

    Its in a way extremely embarassing, for me it was anyways, though it did not actually stop me from makeing an attempt (at the times i was too irrational too even think that) BUT it definately bothered me after and im pretty sure there would be people out there who this is a major concern for..

    Ive again also spoken to my counsellors and told them that i did NOT want to be known as the 'girl who suicided' as it is a generally shameful name when looked upon. As much as i want to die, i a lot of the times would prefer to die with SOME dignity if thats possible...

    this in my opinion is a lot to do with socially unacceptable behaviours.. and im 99% sure there would be others around who feel like this?? no??
  9. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    First, let me say that I'm very sorry for what happened to you. That sounds horrible. Most of my suicide attempts have been cowardly and halfassed so they never caused any real harm. I might have sustained some permanent internal damage that I don't know about, but nothing so dramatic or obvious that I ended up in the hospital for it. I don't know how I would deal with that. You're obviously very brave to have survived that and to still carry on. I know there is a lot of shame and social stigma associated with depression and people who commit suicide, which is why I mostly keep my feelings to myself. As for what they say about me after I'm dead, that I don't care about. It would be nice to die with some dignity if possible, but dignity and social acceptance are far from my top priorities when it comes to how I'm feeling. I do want people to understand and accept me, but at the end of the day I'm still going to do what I want, and they're going to judge me however they will for it. I've spent my entire life trying to please people, to make friends and be a part of "normal" society, and I've been rejected time and time again in spite of my best efforts. There's just no pleasing some people, and sometimes it seems as though the harder you try to be accepted, the more of an outcast you become. I'm not trying to defend or encourage suicide by any means, I guess what I'm saying is that you can't live your life for others and based on what other people are going to think of you. As I said, there are plenty of good reasons to NOT commit suicide, but I don't really see societal taboos as being a strong deterrent for someone who is ready and willing to take their own life.
  10. lav11

    lav11 Well-Known Member

    no need to be sorry, i made my decisions.. ive made a few attempts that i would say were half asked as well but through out the lat year have they gotten pretty serious.. Even some of the not so serious ones i ended up in hopital for.. really depends on how your body re-acts to the attempt and how visible you are to others etc etc if you are to end up in hospital.. an example of a less serious attempt just left me fairly sick, bed bound, and very pale (i go extremely pale with anything my body doesnt agree with) so it was obvious to others i was very unwell...

    Im alot like you in the fact that i just dont really care at the moment who knows besides like a few friends who i dont think would handle knowing, people at school and work.. but everyone else i dont really care but like last year it was a big deal for me... i was very concernced about who knew in case i lost my friends at school or affected my work.. Like i would through out the week set days when it was a better day to attempt so if i did manage to wake up that my work wouldnt know...Im still like that in a way, dont really want to attempt on nights where i have work in the morning in case i wake up..
    BUT over the last year i really dont mind as much with who knows... infact majority of my friends know and have been through the same sort of stuff.. sort of..

    As much as you dont care or i dont care as much or people who dont care.. i think younger people in particular, maybe freshmans to highschool, and probably focussing on females i would assume.. would be a lot more weary in people finding out.. should do a survey on this to find out.. i think the results would surprise everyone :)

    but yeah, definately understand where yoou are comming from wolf, I think someone who is honestly 200% commited to ending their life, well, you cant really stop them.. But again i know alot of people who have suicidal thoughts/idealisation dont need to be 200% committed, in fact these thoughts are probably around 70-80% of their thought pattern and may attempt to hang onto any reasoning they can, i've heard people say they cant attempt because of things like... i dunno, i need to look after my gold fish... any reasoning that they can say i cant attempt...myself included..but i actually think this is a good idea, its bad thinking that you have nothing hanging onto to survive.. no reason not to well, thatts just going to bring you down more... even if its something like a goldfish, well thats better then constantly thinking you should die as nothing is preventing you..

    Sorry if none of this makes sense, just feeling extremely light headed and ill at the moment..
  11. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    I understand that point of view, and you make perfect sense. You're right about many people not being 100% committed to the idea of suicide. I don't think most people are ever 100% committed. Even those who actually do commit suicide, it was probably a spur of the moment decision, something they had thought about before, but hesitated before actually going through with it. I can sit here today and say that I have plans to commit suicide in the future, but will I still feel the same tomorrow? And if I really was 100% committed, why wouldn't I just do it right now? It's not just a social stigma that holds people back. Suicide goes against our own instincts. Even when we hate our lives, it's extremely difficult to bring ourselves to end it. The body naturally reacts to avoid pain and danger. If your hand touches a hot stove, your natural instinct is to pull it away. If somebody throws something at you, your natural instinct is to duck or try to block it. If you're walking along a cliff and you suddenly slip, your natural instinct is to try to grab on to keep from falling.

    Our minds are hard wired for self preservation, no matter how depressed we might feel. So even when you are 100% ready to end your life, part of your subconscious mind is not. This may be one of the reasons why we come up with excuses for why we can't kill ourselves, because deep down inside, we're not ready or willing to let go completely. I've said before, I'm suicidal, but it's not because I want to die. It's because I want to stop feeling miserable. I want to be happy with myself and with my life. I'd rather be dead than spend the rest of my life unhappy.

    But I don't glorify or look forward to death. Nobody knows what really happens after we die. It could just be dark emptiness, and we cease to exist, like an eternal sleep without dreams. It could be that we "go to" a place like heaven or hell where we are either infinitely happy, infinitely miserable, or something in between. Or, it could be that we are reborn somehow, somewhere. Maybe our life is just a dream, and we wake up in another life. Who knows? The point is, it's frightening venturing into the unknown when you know you can't turn back. Of course we all have to die some day, but there's no guarantee that whatever is on the other side is better than what we already have. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. This life may suck, but at least we know that it sucks, and we have some idea of what to expect in this plane of existence. We can make all the excuses in the world to ourselves as to why we "can't" commit suicide, but one thing I don't think most of us are willing to admit is that fear is part of what's holding us back. I hate living sometimes, but I'm still somewhat afraid to die. True, on my worst days, I want nothing more than death, and I could easily take my own life at that moment. Because I'm not thinking about my fear or the potential consequences. I'm only thinking about how much I hate my life and thinking that anything has to be better than what I already have. It's when we're in that place, that rock bottom, the darkest of all darknesses, when all hope seems lost and we no longer care about anything or anyone, at that moment is when we are 100% committed and willing to take our own lives, without worrying about social stigmas, how our family will feel, or what will happen to our pet goldfish. At that point, we couldn't care less about any of that.

    Now, all that being said, worrying about how our deaths would affect our friends and loved ones is perfectly valid. If you do have friends and loved ones, that is. When you truly care about someone, you don't want them to be hurt by your actions. Even though most people who commit suicide don't do it to hurt others, some of the survivors still take it that way. They blame themselves for it. I may not care about what "society" thinks of my act, but I don't want my family to think that it was somehow their fault. Even if they are partially to blame for my depression, which they are, I don't want to burden them with that guilt. Did they screw up my childhood? Yes. Did they contribute to my low self esteem and social awkwardness? Yes. Did they turn a blind eye and ignore me when I told them what I was going through? Yes. But I don't hate them for that. They didn't know any better. If/when I do commit suicide, it's not going to be a vengeful act to "get back at" the world or any person. My death would only punish those who cared about me. "Society" isn't going to give a crap that I'm gone, it will still go on as if I never even existed. The only reason I would commit suicide is to end my own suffering. Nothing less, nothing more. How I choose to deal with MY OWN PERSONAL SUFFERING is between me, myself, and I. It's my life, not anybody else's. And if society doesn't like the fact that some people choose to end their lives rather than live in constant pain, that's just too damn bad. Society can kiss my ass.
  12. roksy

    roksy Well-Known Member

    I like how you put it.
  13. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    Herein lies the huge problem in that suicide destroys the lives of so many more than just the victim. I know this because in October 2010, my son died by suicide. My life, and the life of his mother, brothers, friends, etc., will NEVER be the same. For me, it ripped my heart completely out.

    For every problem, there is ALWAYS a solution. Even animals do not kill themselves, and we are to be considered better than they. Living is a constant fight (imagine how I feel with a part of me, my child, gone?). NOTHING hurts more than what I am living through right now and while each person with depression or an issue can say that I don't understand their pain, I can say that I do understand... because my pain is at least as equal, though in my eyes it is far worse. I can give up and succumb to this pain, or I can fight it every day and struggle to survive as would an animal caught in a trap. A coyote caught in a hunter or a farmer's snare trap will, if all else fails, chew off it's own leg to escape and live. That is AMAZING, is it not? A dumb, stupid animal will fight with a will to survive. I am smarter than that coyote, so my will to survive the worst must be even stronger.

    Believe me, I have days that are so down that I just cry. A grown man crying is not a pretty sight. What else can I do? I can take a deep breathe, I can find some strength within my already weak body and through the aches and the pains of just naturally growing old, but with this heavy weight on top of it. I can discover that while my pain is great, I can reach out to others who are in pain and fighting, and help them through. I won't detail how I do this, but it goes way beyond posting on here and it goes way beyond volunteering. It goes so far, in fact, that I do interviews with the media, at their sought out request, on what has become an almost regular basis. I find that my pain can lessen when I reach out and give aide to others. I have seen first hand, and also receive written testimony, from people who have been saved. Kids, adults, etc. This, for me, is my "cure" to the unhappiness. It may not work for all... it may not be right for you. Have you tried it? If you have not, then you can't honestly say you've made a fair attempt at all potential cures or solutions. Only when EVERY avenue has been exhausted can someone even honestly say they've tried it all.

    Socially acceptable? Of course suicide is not. Thank God that society still has the moral fiber, which every day I think dissolves more and more and more, to care about everyone around them. Society and people and life is full of garbage and B.S. and crap you can pile so high that it isn't even funny... I agree with you on that. Through that, though, there still remains the will to care. I hope people post to this site and explain their problems and that they carefully read and consider all suggestions brainstormed by responding readers. When therapists are not working out, fire them and get someone else... try the next, and the next, and the next. Not everyone is good at what they do, and not everyone is right for each person's individual situation, even if they are good with someone else. Trust more, ignore those who are negative or an obstacle, or who do not really care. Seek out the kind hearts who believe in helping you find wellness. They're out there... but like a diamond in the rough, they have to be sought out, polished, and nurtured. Remember too that those who may feel as if they do not care, may be fighting similar demons of their own within themselves. I used to stereotype people, and sometimes still do unfortunately because I forget to consider that they may have a situation or a story that contributes to their manners or their action. If I don't know everything about them and if I cannot get inside their head and know what they think... then I cannot truly know why they do their actions.
  14. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    I am very sorry for your loss. I hope you don't think that I was condoning suicide, because I don't. It's a very hard choice to make, and one that cannot be undone. Your son obviously had a loving family who loved and cared about him very much, and I wish he was able to embrace that love and hold on for you.

    However, as you said, we all have our own stories... not all families are as close and loving as yours. I wish I knew what it was like to have a family like that. Unfortunately, I don't. I don't just come from a broken home; I come from a shattered home. There are very few people, if any, in this world who care about me. I wish it were true that society did care about everyone around them. But the fact is, they don't. Some of us have been cast aside and completely forgotten, left to die alone... there are probably more people who would cheer my death than those who would mourn. As for my family, they have never taken the time to visit me once in the ten years since I moved out on my own. For all they know, I could already be dead...

    We all have our own stories. And some stories are better left untold.
  15. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    LoneWolf, I do hear you. I wish I understood why families are like that. As a parent, I can't think of anything more important in the world than my wife and children. Sometimes we take them for granted, but not in the long term. I wish every family could adopt an attitude like that - but I know that many don't. My kids are a part of me and, in my mind, living after death means leaving kids behind who then have kids who then have kids who then have kids. Our children are important, regardless if they're 5 years old, 10, 18, 30 or 50 years of age. I have a son who is 27 also and to me, he's still "my little boy." I hope you find some peace for your own situation.
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