Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by LightInTheDarkestNight, Jul 9, 2011.

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  1. LightInTheDarkestNight

    LightInTheDarkestNight Well-Known Member

    "We create this fantasy of the volcanic, unpredictable, psychopathic explosion,''
    said Gelles, who has written 23 books on intimate partner violence and child abuse.
    "The real psychopathy is not the snapping, it's the ability to maintain a calm
    presence and to give plausible explanations to implausible events.''

    I found this interesting. When I was younger(a teen) I "snapped" a couple times call it impulse control, anger, or what have you.

    At the end of the day, I'm extremely honest, nice and have many good traits. I actually feel guilty lying about anything other then having some kind of work I don't really have(a bit of a white lie in a sense as that lie doesn't effect anyone else at all). I' not denying any truth about a wrong that has been inflicted on another. I had my own traumas and issues which in a way made me feel cheated and I did lack some empathy when I was younger...

    I had much guilt about this one failed relationship and I promised to myself not to make the same mistakes and when I finally opened up to the world everyone was cruel and harmed me.. Largely due to my past mistakes they were very vindictive... Sometimes I wonder if I'm cursed or what...

    Due to all of the abuse, and other underlying issues I lost it last year and went "crazy" and did something I shouldn't have and wouldn't have had I been in my right mind(nothing violent)largely because my mind was so poisoned from the abuse.

    I even feel empathy for these people why because they may be involved in the not the most noble aspect of life however I don't really know them, I don't like causing people harm. I just went temporarily insane from all of the abuse and other unlucky factors/bad choices. The sad part is I really doubt they feel the same way about me some people don't even care to understand because when you do you may realize why some people did the things they did. You''ll realize despite their mistakes they're actually a good person, with a good heart who just wants to be happy...

    Some things I've lied about in the past few years are my work situation pretending I have a job that is only because I don't want to come off as more of a failure then I really am other then that I don't lie. The only time I hesitated to tell someone something was if I thought it would be used against me. I'm very far from a pathological or compulsive liar. Some psychopaths or sociopaths only tell the truth if it serves some beneficial purpose to them.. That is wrong on so many levels....

    They they say it's not how things are but how you look at them. Bascially perspectivism...

    How do you feel about guys like Scott Peterson? I think it is fairly safe to say most killers aren't the snapping kind of person. They're probably more along the lines as the one guy says in the cold calculated type plotting conniving schemes and being premeditated...

    It can be easy to label someone as a "sociopath" or whatever but you're just judging and labeling and not looking or understanding or caring to know who they are at the core. This is extremely easy if you do not actually know a person well like a close friend or family member. You attribute their behavior to their character rather then factoring in external factors.

    Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Scott Peterson's character wasn't flawed as to be a killer because he certainly did kill his wife when it was totally unnecessary, wrong and should never be condemned. Anyone who murders should be put in jail for the rest of their life. It's one thing to have selfish and evil desires for revenge or whatever and it's a whole different story to actually act on those. If you're not in a state of insanity or temporary insanity doing something very cruel, heartless, harming and vindictive is not acceptable..

    If you attribute someone's behavior to pathology let's say you say someone is a sociopath. This person will be quick to respond "I'm not crazy". As I quoted this is wrong. This one guy told his parents how his brother's behavior was sociopathic and his parents were quick to respond "he's not crazy", "he's not a serial killer"... People have the terms all mixed up.

    A large percentage of people think someone has to be "crazy" or "insane" to do evil acts but the reality is most murderous evil acts like gang killings, brutal rapes, murders and hits, serial killers are from totally sane people. These people are just selfish, cruel and lacking empathy, they only care about their self involved interests... Power, money, or pleasure...

    Look at the Nazi's who did mass genocide the top guys weren't "wild beasts" as the prosecutor put it they were normal looking guys who were very sane. They lacked empathy and used Jewish people and others as their scapegoats. Only two of the guys in the Nuremberg trails actually expressed any guilt or remorse, can you believe that like, like wow... It makes me ashamed to be a human to see the evil things some of us are capable off...

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  2. chjones21

    chjones21 Well-Known Member

    It's a common belief that for a man like Scott Peterson -- young, successful, handsome --
    to kill his wife, he must have just "snapped.''

    I don't know whether he did it anyway but that said, I think people can temporarily lose it.

    You hear of it enough times that a red mist or rage almost descends and the person although acting somewhat rationally ... is not acting as they would normally and they almost "come back to themselves" and then think: "What have I done?" when they are back in their normal frame of mind. So I do believe that there is a possibility that the fight or flight response just kicks in and almost 'takes over' in an unexpected, heated moment - the French refer to it as a crime of passion --- whether you genuinely can pull back from that moment, whether there is a moment where you almost "choose" to give into that red mist and then you are lost to its power for as long as the adrenalin rush lasts, I don't know....

    I don't live in the US so I am not overly familiar with the Scott Peterson case but as he still maintains his innocence, I would have to say that you cannot be sure he did it, at all.
  3. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    I think classifying psychopathy has too broad, and vague, a spectrum of traits that are common in many people. Committing acts of violence doesn't make an individual a psychopath. As a matter of fact, most psychopaths are not violent at all.

    With regards to snapping, everyone has a boiling point and not everyone reacts to the same impulses in the same way.
  4. LightInTheDarkestNight

    LightInTheDarkestNight Well-Known Member

    No doubt people do snap and lose it however the vast majority of murders or other serious crimes are not of that sort. Yes there are those crimes of passion in relationships and what not but most of the time they are not crimes of passion there are premeditated or the desire for it has been building up. Basically what this guy is saying that the real psychopaths or sociopaths aren't people who snap and kill people(he isn't disputing that there aren't people that do it). I think a lot people find it easier on their mind that someone has to snap to do something horrendous like murdering someone rather then it just be something they do in calm cool and collective manner.

    The bottom line is you lack empathy for someone and you can do something illegal or cruel for some type of selfish gain, whether it be for power, money, or pleasure there are an abundance of people out there willing to go that far.

    Yes they've basically abolished the whole psychopathy diagnosis. It's much too subjective. and vague as you put it. Some people are more impulsive which can lead to an addictive personality and other problems which doesn't at all make them a psychopath. You want to be careful being pathological with someones behavior which can lead to not understanding who they are and the external factors.

    You're right everyone does have a boiling point so to speak, it does change as you go through life. I had more anger issues when I was younger due to problems I had in my own life combined with having a bit of an impulsive personality and not having too much worldy experience it wasn't the best combination. As I matured I gained more empathy and really liked to treat others the way I like to be treated,the golden rule of compassion. I recognized my mistakes in a relationship where I had screwed up and promised myself to be a better person this was about three years ago. I hadn't had a proper relationship since that one, nor have I really had one since and I've done my best to be a nice caring compassionate guy... Albeit after three in a row toyed and were very cruel(vindictive) with me I sort of last faith...

    Obviously committing acts of violence does not make someone a psychopath to be technical the term isn't even in use anymore in the DSM. I wouldn't go as far to say that most psychopaths don't commit acts of violence. It's my understanding a good percentage do. It depends on their intelligence smarter ones might be a CEO of a company not so intelligent ones in jail as a career criminal.

    Sociopath is a better term for example of all sociopaths 70% grow up without their biological dad this is substantially higher and not a coincidence. Their are also dyssocial sociopaths who only know how to abide by the wrong rules(gang rules), if you hang around with people in that kind of life style you assimilate to their rules and views. Social influence is a factor here. So you may not be an aggressive or sadistic sociopath as others in your group are but you still follow the rules very willingly.

    True sociopaths are all about "winning" these people will not accept that they've been wronged or perceive a "bad person" has gotten away with something or gotten the upperhand on them. For example a character they portrayed l in the Movie I was watching the other week the Titanic. The Fiance(Cal) she was with for the money when she had fallen for Leonardo Decaprio. I recall in one scene he was like "I always win", when it was evident he lost Rose(Kate Winslet) and she even got off the life boat for to stay with Lenoardo or Jack dawson, he sort of lost it and started shooting up the place. Some people just have too much pride and ego then can't chalk up not being successful as they feel they deserve to be.
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  5. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    Sociopathy and Psychopathy are practically synonymous, the same thing, which is why it's now more frequently referred to as Antisocial Personality Disorder to avoid the conflicting and interchangeable usage of the terms to describe similar categorical traits, even though the terms are still used generally depending on what each scholar believes about them (there is no scientific consensus though on the disputed differences between socio and psycho). There is a stipulation amongst almost all psychology and sociology scholars that most psychopaths are not violent criminals, and most violent criminals are not psychopaths, even though some may have a criminal history. The general perception that they are is a myth.

    An article written by two PhD's on the subject and dispelling some common misconceptions

    There are more nonviolent psychopaths in power who know how to get what they want without criminal behavior, than there are psychopathic criminals in the prison system.
  6. LightInTheDarkestNight

    LightInTheDarkestNight Well-Known Member

    Antisocial personality disorder is the correct term however as all DSM diagnosis are they're all subjective. Someone may have anxiety and other legitimate health issues which make it harder to live what most people deem as a normal productive life. Therefore they live off of their family someone could label this a parasitic lifestyle or a freeloader but the reality is they have legitimate issues... Like let's say someone has an autoimmune disease and you say oh it's that's being irresponsible them not being able to get work that's one check on the ASPD check list... That doesn't sound right to me

    One could say I have ASPD however I do have lots of empathy and remorse and I'm not a deceptive person, except for lying about having a job or being in college a few times mostly to people who don't really know me or aren't serious in my life I have almost never lied. So yeah for the most part lying is not my thing at all really being too honest is actually one of my flaws which leads people to be judgmental. I want to be liked for my mistakes but some people seem to expect people to be perfect they see you've made a mistake and then just judge you as it being your personality. They don't consider you changed, learned from your mistakes and other external factors....

    When I was younger prior to 18 or just around there I did at times have very low tolerance to frustration albeit I had lots of stuff go down in my life so there was the context of the situation, which some people fail to grasp. As I got older I was able to tolerate frustration more, oddly enough about being used and mistreated I sometimes still like those who mistreated me. That's what they say about sociopaths sometimes the victim still likes whomever treated them wrong. If I would have not changed and be able to deal with frustration wrong I would have certainly done lot's of irrational and aggressive things when people were mean and cruel to me but I did not. I have not been physically aggressive or violent since turning 18... No hitting, fighting, bullying, spitting, making people feel bad.

    Everything is all subjective and people do change as they get older, I certainly did some aggressive and not so smart things when I was 15-17 punching holes in walls when angry and some other not so bright things. I'm quite certain a lot of that was due to my own issues and projecting that onto the outside world(perceived inferiority that you project onto someone else). Who knows maybe I was projecting my own shadow back then, due to my issues... Part of my problem was my impulsive personality which is prone to drug use and the fact that it's not until you get older that your decision making part of your brain develops... Drugs certainly didn't help my cause I got kicked out of class for the day at 17 when I was in a relationship with this girl who had been flirting with this other guy in front of me her sitting on his lap etc.. I was on dexedrin at the time and I just jumped him at his locker, that was wrong that guy didn't deserve that, I really didn't like myself(perceived inferiority) and all the other issues I had I won't get into therefore I was projecting that onto him.

    That's the thing when you can't deal with your own issues you project them, sometimes it can be hard to cope with how bad you're feeling inside...
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