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Speaking for Many!

Discussion in 'Rants, Musings and Ideas' started by Kelsey, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. Kelsey

    Kelsey Well-Known Member

    This is going to be long so please stick with me.

    Sometimes in our lives things change us from the people we are. Sometimes it is a conscious decision, other times it just happens. Whether you change for the good, the bad and yes even the ugly, you should consider how this change affects others. Some of you may be thinking, wait a minute didn’t she just say you don’t know what brought about the change”, and you’d be right. However I didn’t say you wouldn’t notice the change. You may not notice it right away but on some level you will see it.

    You may wonder what type of change I am referring to and the easy answer is any change. But this isn’t meant to be easy. This is meant to make you think about who you are, who you used to be, and is intended to get you to wonder if you like who you have become. If you like who you are that’s great and I am happy for you. If you don’t maybe you can change it. I am more interested in you who have become story tellers. From what I can tell it didn’t always used to be that way but somehow you guys are headed that way. I don’t doubt that in the beginning you were genuinely hurting and doing things that you shouldn’t be doing to cope. What I do doubt now is the honesty behind the stories.

    I know the laws are different everywhere. Whether you are in the States, Australia, Canada, Europe, England, or Mexico. To some extent they are all the same. Healthcare is also the same in a lot of aspects. I can speak for the States at least that healthcare is getting ready to change so I understand things do change. On some level though they all have Hippocratic Oath they go by, to do no harm to others.

    It took 3 paragraphs to get to one of my main points, if you read this far, thanks. Anyhow, when you spurt of things like, I died they brought me back to life and I went home an hour later, or I tried to kill myself and the cops didn’t even care or try to stop me, you make people not trust you. Those are just 2 examples of what has been happening lately on here. There are people on here who do hurt deeply and have very little hope. What if their hope was that there are still honest people in the world, good people. By lying to them you have come in and in one clean swoop taken that away from them. Who are we to do that to someone?

    Over the years here at SF I have seen more and more “fakers” than should ever be one site, or in the world. You guys are hurting people, me included. I don’t know what is worse being lied to or knowing someone who has been lied to and feeling their pain. I want to caution everyone on who you trust and open up to. Not everyone is who they say they are. If you have been hurt or burned by someone on this site my heart goes out to you. If you have hurt or burned someone, take a long look at yourself, and think when did I become this person? If you are going around telling stories and you think no one is paying attention you are very wrong. We won’t break confidentiality but we do “compare notes.” I hope in reading this you realize you aren’t getting away with what you think you are. We all talk to each other. Members, staff, everyone, we all talk.

    I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, stop telling stories. If you want love and attention just say so. Don’t toy with other people’s emotions, it doesn’t do any good. So for your sake and ours please stop. You know who you are…
  2. homelessmk

    homelessmk Active Member

    i totally agree with you. i feel like a lot of people on here make up stories for attention, and if you're doing that, you're just hurting the people who actually live the stories that you are making up/embellishing. i hear ya, kelsey. thanks for the post!
  3. WildCherry

    WildCherry Staff Member ADMIN

    Agreed. There are so many genuine, honest people on this site. But there are also some that haven't been honest. By not being honest with the people who truly care about you, you're hurting yourself AND those people who care.
  4. nagisa

    nagisa Staff Alumni

  5. morning rush

    morning rush Well-Known Member

    well said :clap:
  6. Sadeyes

    Sadeyes Staff Alumni

    Energy vampires are the saddest members here because they must construct another self to get what they think they need...Frankly, I am usually ambivilant regarding how to handle these situations, but I am also so tired of this...we truly have ppl who are hurting and need immediate help, but when I am called upon to give more attention to an energy vampire, I am both very saddened and annoyed...being one's 'genuine self' is a rather difficult task...but threatening, malingering and be found out to be deceitful is not the way to negotiate life...they have my deepest sadness, but I am loathed to spend a lot of the little energy I have...but in the end, I do not judge at the moment, and respond as if it were a genuine request for support...J
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2010
  7. itmahanh

    itmahanh Senior Member & Antiquities Friend

    Yes there are fakers and attention seekers here. Always have been and always will be. And worse those that come here and get some sick pleasure out of trying to push those suicidal buttons or enforce the negative thoughts and feelings members are here to try and escape.

    And then it makes people like me wonder if what I went through or am going through is thought of as a story. And that hurts too. What I have gone through just to get to the point of suiciding and the aftermath of the attempt is more reality than I want to deal with. Now I wonder who might be thinking I'm buillshitting and that hurts as much as the suicidal thoughts and urges. Who may think I'm faking or attention seeking? I question whether posting anymore is worth it? Am I just feeding the gossip mill? Does anyone believe my pain and urges? Understand just how hard I'm fighting to breath?

    I hate to think I have to "defend" my turn of events especially in a place where I thought people believed in me. But now on top of trying as hard as I can to not repeat last Tuesday, the idea that others may think I'm bullshitting cuts too deep. Adds to the reasons to go ahead with it. Because of my personal past history I automatically assume guilt for things. Things exactly like this. I take blame for things too easily. Feel guilty for any chance that I may of given anyone else to question my sincerity.

    If anyone doubts what happened and is still happening send me a pm and I will give you phone numbers that you can contact for the "evidence" you need. Give you the phone number of the hospital that released me only after a few days. Give you the phone number of the agency that has taken my youngest from me. Give you the phone number to the police that have come and left only to come again at the insistance of a member from here.

    I'm sorry I know this is too much like the saying " I think she doth protest too much." But I do not lie. And now it feels like all that I have gone through means nothing more than gossip material for others. Shit happens sometimes that seems too surreal. And people do attempt to take their lives. I dont know if I'm one of those that fall into the catergory of this thread in other members eyes. But it hurts too much to think I might be. It happened. The raw gashes on my wrists are there, they happened. My baby is gone, that happened. People I love are and have turned away from me, that has and is happening. And I want more than anything to die rather than keep fighting especially if people dont believe the pain I have and am suffering.

    I have suffered that pain in silence for so so many years. I had a place here where I didnt feel so alone with all my shit. But I physically feel that draining as I type this. To be alone once again. It's all too much.

    And now there are going to be members that are going to say I'm over reacting. Assuming things. Taking this too personally but I have my reasons why this thread has hit me so hard. Those that are going to say that just by what I've posted I'm looking for attention. Think what you like. It's my Hell, I'm living it. It's my reality whether others chose to believe or not. Whether others want to judge me for what I've said. I'm so lost that it really wont matter at all.

    I'm sorry. Now I feel like a complete shit and idiot for saying any of this. Fuck it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2010
  8. sammakko

    sammakko Banned Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2010
  9. Sadeyes

    Sadeyes Staff Alumni

    My response was aimed at no individual, but if you review the psycho-dramas created here...in the hospital and near dead, and back the next day...dead and setting up another account claiming to be a relative, suicide countdowns (maybe the worst) etc...you will see how much emotional energy is spent on these claims...I hope we find a way to encourage ppl to be more authentic...J
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2010
  10. cult logic

    cult logic Staff Alumni


    I never had thought of the people here as attention seekers... nor did I think the things people said were being looked at as such...

    That's kinda sad and a little unnerving at the same time. Maybe I'm just naive.
  11. Synesthetic Soul

    Synesthetic Soul Well-Known Member

    Well if a story is way too far-fetched (like going home an hour after being brought back to life) then I can see why anyone would be upset that there are fakers and story tellers. I tend to give everyone a bit of faith but I also take everything with a grain of salt. I can't trust those who I don't know.

    That said, I try not to judge or assume anything anyway. It's kind of sad this thread has to be made and even sadder that some people feel like it's personal. I'm sure it's not, but again, I don't know.

    I hope those who are truly suffering get the help they need.

    With all my love
    Synesthetic Soul
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2010
  12. molotov

    molotov Well-Known Member

    I was with you right up to the bit where "people who count down" got lumped in with "people who are faking it," to be honest. I don't want to pick a fight or anything - I agree (oh, how do I agree) that that kind of thing is especially painful to read - but I do not, do not, do not, do not think it is a good idea to start questioning people's authenticity just because they have set a date, are hell-bent on following through with it, and post about it. Those that post regularly because, deep down, they want to be saved.. I want them to be saved. Those that do it just because they don't want to be alone... I don't want them to be alone. Those that really are faking a countdown just to create drama? I would rather fall into their trap a hundred thousand times than accuse one genuinely suicidal person of lying to get attention.
  13. ~Claire

    ~Claire Well-Known Member

    Whilst I agree the majority of us have probably came across a post or ten that we've read & thought 'yeah right, there's no way that would ever happen', I just don't understand what purpose these threads serve.

    They crop up every now & again, everyone jumps on board & says well done for posting what I've always wanted to say etc, etc. But does anyone ever look at the heart of the matter or speak to these members individually or through the staff? I'm not defending them but obviously they are troubled enough to go to the lengths & the extremes that they do.

    Every time I see threads like this it makes me incredibly sad because for every 1 person that is trolling or lying there's probably 10 too scared to post or speak up about how they are feeling. I know I have nothing to hide but it takes a lot for me to post & when I read things like this my paranoia creeps into overdrive & I withdraw even further. Maybe I'm the only one with that opinion but I felt the need to share.

    I am away to lurk under my chair now :hiding:.

    Sorry, just wanted to add a bit more when I read Molotov's post. I put a date in my member diary, it's there in black & white. Yes, it may be a countdown for me, when I wrote it I was in a really bad place. I didn't do it for attention, nor was I expecting any. I just needed a place to vent & that's pretty much the only place I feel comfortable doing so. I'm sitting here wondering if people think I'm nothing but an attention seeker? Now I'm definitely away to hide :sad:.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2010
  14. Bambi

    Bambi Well-Known Member

    I have read all of the above posts and while it is going to take me a bit of time to write out a reply worthy of the subject at hand I felt the need to reply to Claire (sorry for getting personal everyone but I can't leave her a visitor or private message).

    Claire I agree with all that you said but please do not let this situation cause you to stop posting. In the two recent situations of "fakes" that I was the victim of there was solid evidence as well as questionable behavior noted by several members. I have seen many of your posts and as someone with a bit of experience so to speak I feel that there is nothing suspect in anything you have said or done so please do not let this affect you nor deny yourself the support you come here to get. I guess I read Molotov's post differently than you as I believed her to be referencing those that do "countdowns" in the forums and not all those that do countdowns. Maybe your interpretation is correct and mine wrong but regardless in the same one I refuse the fakes that I have fallen victim to change my reaching out do not let the speaking out of someone that has been betrayed and abused by another member change what you do.

    I sure wish I could PM you as I hate to see you "hide" and I would like to personally encourage you to continue posting.

    Well I would like to reply more to the OP and to Carla who clearly believes this tread is about her but I need more time and wanted to reach out to Claire as soon possible.

    Thanks Claire for raising one of the effects that posts like these have...I appreciate them but had not thought of the potential negative effect it may have and I think I am correct in saying that was NOT at all the intention of the OP and that she shares my wish that you continue to post as you have in the past.

    Please feel free to PM...I have a date too but am not seeking attention by putting it in my diary nor do I believe you are too.

    Love to all of you, Bambi
  15. Chargette

    Chargette Well-Known Member

    I too, am a person to wonder about something like this. It's very frightening to think that I would end up being scrutinized like this. I have a lot of naivety.

    I want to know, who makes these kinds of decisions about whether a person here is in genuine need or not.
  16. Bambi

    Bambi Well-Known Member

    I believe each person decides for themselves and I don't think anyone around here bases authenticity on a single event or sentence. I think what is being addressed are not isolated incidents but demonstrated patterns of behaviors that members need to be aware of.
    As the victim of 2 or 3 confirmed and self confessed "fakes" I appreciate the warning as the first time it happened to me I was so naive that I never expected it.
    I think the OP just wanted to warn people that is all. I don't think anyone is advocating taking a single event and labeling a member a fake, again a pattern of behavior is what is being addressed.
  17. yorkie bar

    yorkie bar Well-Known Member

    I entirely agree with you. Now i've left myself completely open to whatever, because i am rather naive too.

    I have always looked on 'friendships' as a very personal thing. It takes me a long time to trust someone, but that, is my problem. It had vaguely occured to me that other people were discussing very private matters, which i chose to share with them. The thought, it has been suggested here, that everyone, staff and members, are 'discussing' my innermost thoughts, but not with me, leaves me feeling isolated and alone.
  18. the fleet asleep

    the fleet asleep Well-Known Member

    I agree with a ton of the points made so far, so I wont bother reiterating any of them, but I think theres ones thing we're not pointing out as much as it probably should be. We, as a community, do our part to encourage this kind of behavior with our own actions on this forum, whether its realized or not (I think its more than realized, and more often than not just ignored).

    One of the psychological quirks of a place like this is that it creates the kind of "supporting" situation that is almost the polar opposite of what youd get from a professional. Im not going to get into some long winded diatribe about why this "pro life" forum spends much of its time being more "pro death", and why support group situations that deal with self destructive behavior only tend to work when youre forced to admit youre doing something wrong though this kind of admission is looked down upon here.

    Instead, why not look at why things like having to admit youre fully responsible for what you do to yourself is looked down upon? Many people who come here, be it to help or to receive help, want to be more "supportive" than need be. Rather than just being themselves, and allowing their natural supportive nature flow, they force the support by any means necessary. This means "supporting" other people with constant unconditional encouragement, even if this encouragement should come with at least some conditions. Eventually, the definition of "support" changes from what it is, to what the majority of people here want it to be, not because theyre manipulating the situation, but because they just care about the well being of others so much that they dole out "support" in a desperate attempt to "save" people, or any number of other reasons (like overcompensating for being a jerk in the outside world, in an attempt to alleviate guilt).

    We have a situation here where the term "support" has lost its definition, the examples are all over the forum. If you tell someone its okay that they want to kill themself, and that suicide is a reasonable response to their undeniably debilitating emotional pain, youre seen as a saint. If you come on the forum and tell people that playing into their own victim complexes will make them victims, and the only way theyre going to get better is to stop romanticizing suicide and put forward the necessary and extremely taxing work it takes to create a better life, rather than waiting around and complaining when it doesnt create itself, youre nailed to a cross, branded "unsupportive".

    A couple huge examples was a thread quite a while ago where a man complained that his bitch wife wouldnt let him see his kids, and this is what made him suicidal. People in the thread all but demonized this mans wife page after page, encouraging him to fight her in court and do whatever it took to get his kids away from that woman. Well, turns out he was a drunk addict who routinely beat his wife and kids, and thats why he couldnt see them. Whoops, SF missed the mark by being hugely judgemental and reckless with their "support". Then we have the case of "Sarge", whos "cousin" showed up one day and claimed "Sarge" had been killed in a conflict on the North Korea, South Korea border. The story was beyond fake, and for a dozen obvious reasons, but he received pages of "support". Two weeks ago, he showed up in chat, and cursed us all out of telling him we didnt want anything to do with someone who would fake his death to look like a war hero. Being fully in support of a situation you know nothing about is as bad as fully denouncing it, but discretion is overshadowed by the need to look "supportive".

    Hell, a few weeks ago one person made an "[X] is in the hospital" thread, and got a few pages of really nice support. I fully believe this person went to the hospital, and the kind words in this thread were really quite nice. A few days later, there was 5 more "[X] is in the hospital" threads, 4 of which were the top 4 threads in their sub board. Far be it for me to say that any of these threads were legit or illegit, but considering Ive only seen a small handful of these kinds of threads before this, and suddenly there was 5 or 6 in a span of a few days, its not a stretch to assume monkey see monkey do when theres "support" to be had.

    I know I said I wasnt going to be long winded and I am anyway, but Im trying to make one point in particular. We cant really fault people for not being genuine when our own genuineness is in question. We all talk outside of this site, and I know a huge number of us talk about threads and people we know are faking or otherwise ridiculous, yet we come to the forum and offer e-hugs and candy coated "support". We're so afraid of looking unsupportive that we'll avoid looking like a jerk, even if the support someone needs isnt the kind that looks pretty on a page. If we all agree that the constant fake deaths, attempts, countdowns, and farewell threads made by people who we're positive are simply looking for attention are emotionally taxing and harmful, why is it that we come here and continue to encourage these things by posting page after page of plastic support, instead of encouraging gaining help through honesty? We all go on MSN afterwards and talk about how fake and outrageous these threads are, I know that for a fact, so why come on the forum and act otherwise?

    We're as much to blame for waves of attention seeking dishonesty as the dishonest people are, and almost equally as dishonest, just for less harmful reasons. If original post in this thread wasnt so elegantly worded, and a few more prominent members hadnt come out in its support early, this thread would have gone down in flames just like every other thread like it in the past.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2010
  19. Synesthetic Soul

    Synesthetic Soul Well-Known Member

    I have to say that I agree with the above post to an extent. While I admit I've done it myself, it bothers me that people say it's okay to self harm so long as you're being "safe" about it. While I know that people have thier ways of being safe and doing something that makes them feel better or cope with their feelings, I think that it shouldn't be so "encouraged".

    On the same token, to completely discourage this behavior can make someone feel ridiculed or judged. Both things we cannot do to people on this forum. So in reality, it's a fine line between support and harm when it comes to how we treat those who harm themselves or want to.

    However, we cannot treat people's feelings as invalid, when someone wants to hurt themselves or "end it" we have to admit that they have a right to feel as bad as they do.

    I will repeat, I agree with the above post and we should find a way to help each other without encouraging inner and outder damaging behavior to themselves and us. And I will repeat, I too am guilty of supporting others in a somewhat negative way. However, I plan on finding ways to support others that can be seen as caring and still honest. I think that should be everyone's goal here on SF.
  20. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

    Feel compelled to put my 2 cents worth in here. This is not the first time a thread like this has been posted, and I believe Kelsey one of those previous ones was also started by you.

    I will guarantee that a large percentage of SF members who read this type of thread immediately think - does she mean me? Putting a comment such as the one you ended your post with is as far as I'm concerned as good as directly and personally attacking someone, but without the courage to actually state who you are having a go at.

    Fine words full of noble sentiment that cloak an anger which I say should be better expressed directly to the person who has pissed you off. It is not fair to other members here to make blanket statements like that, it's only creating a sense of unease and defensiveness.

    Sure I reckon most of us at some time or another feel that our wanting to help is being abused, and yes I'm inclined to think that the general ethos here militates against voicing doubts about what some people might be saying.

    BUT at the end of the day does it really matter if someone is exaggerating, if someone is even lying about their situation, if what they really want is exactly the same as what those want, who are being more honest and authentic with expressing those wants?

    If someone came on here and posted something like - I'm not suicidal, I'm not depressed, I have a reasonably ok external life, I have no overwhelming problems that are threatening my life - but I desperately want to be noticed, to be smiled at, to be accepted, to have someone be interested in me and talk to me and want to be my friend, I want attention I want to feel that I matter and I can't get any of that out in real world maybe I can get it here - how many of us would acknowledge that as being more or less what most of us are here to get, underneath it all? How many of us wouldn't immediately tell them to piss off because their 'problems' aren't serious enough?

    And you've got to ask yourself also, once the anger at feeling used and abused has passed, WHY is this person making up stories, WHY is this person not being honest about their situation. What bad feelings and problems are going on in their heads that is making them resort to manipulation to get sympathy and comfort from others?

    I also often find myself getting a bit suspicious sometimes, thinking hm this person is bullshitting this person isn't being honest, this person is being manipulative in way that makes it almost impossible to query them without seeming like a cold callous person - and ok I'll go off and have a rant and a rave to myself about it. But it's my choice to want to help them, and if I then go into a sulk because my god it seems like I've been doing all the giving here and not getting anything back - that's MY PROBLEM, not anyone else's.

    I have to totally disagree with the comment that this post was 'well said'. It was not well said, it was worded in quite a vicious way and has effectively split people on the forum into those who believe they are in the moral 'right' and those who think it might apply to them. It's created an atmosphere of fear and distrust and resentment. It is not fair to make global statements like this - it is pretty apparent that it is specific people (or even one person) whom you are talking about. To bring a personal grievance about specific people into the public arena like this I think is actually very manipulative.

    Sure you're just voicing what a lot of people already secretly think - I just think that you have said it in such a way as to make a lot of people on here feel targetted and afraid.