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Stop Beating On Men

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Dark111

SF Supporter
#3
Men have been reviled for far too long. We've been at the mercy of toxic femininity for far too long. I see women just about hitting menopause and the'yre still look for 6 ft tall handsome guy earning 6 figures.

Women are deluding themselves. They think they can get as old and out of shape as they want but still land the perfect guy.

Give guys more of a chance girls. You're not all that either. You think just because you're a female you get to sety all the standards. Well it doesn't work that way. Men get to have standards too. And if a man doesn't want a tattooed gal who has had 20 different boyfriends, that's ok. Why would he want that?

This post and hopefully thread is to educate both men and women on reality. I hop we can all have a productive discussion.
 

Nick the Fantastical Duck

☆☆Ducking Fantastic ☆☆
Safety & Support
SF Supporter
#5
This topic and post in no way allows for productive or positive discussion. Also, you're informing people of your reality, not the reality of the world.
I have to disagree. While yes it is based on the thoughts of the person posting it, there are a set of double standards in the world. Those double standards can be seen on both sides. I have found that as a guy it is far less acceptable for me to express my depression and suicidal thoughts. It's simply not "okay". Now, in reality that is crap and it should be perfectly okay, but I'm looked down upon for not being stronger. Even by friends. A guy should be tough. So as much as we'd like to say these things don't exist, they do in some aspect.
 

the.end.ish

Misknown Member
#6
I have to disagree. While yes it is based on the thoughts of the person posting it, there are a set of double standards in the world. Those double standards can be seen on both sides. I have found that as a guy it is far less acceptable for me to express my depression and suicidal thoughts. It's simply not "okay". Now, in reality that is crap and it should be perfectly okay, but I'm looked down upon for not being stronger. Even by friends. A guy should be tough. So as much as we'd like to say these things don't exist, they do in some aspect.
And I could say that women's perceived affinity for expressing feelings and emotions is seen as weak and therefore their thoughts and actions in the economic and social world are discounted much more. These two ideas of course are both tied hand in hand, but I think the very fact that both genders experience double standards is why there cannot be a productive discussion over this and I also think that attacking an entire gender on a suicide forum many of whom are vulnerable women is not a productive idea.
 

Nick the Fantastical Duck

☆☆Ducking Fantastic ☆☆
Safety & Support
SF Supporter
#7
And I could say that women's perceived affinity for expressing feelings and emotions is seen as weak and therefore their thoughts and actions in the economic and social world are discounted much more. These two ideas of course are both tied hand in hand, but I think the very fact that both genders experience double standards is why there cannot be a productive discussion over this and I also think that attacking an entire gender on a suicide forum many of whom are vulnerable women is not a productive idea.
That's why I said it's on both sides. It might be a better approach to explain that to the person who started the thread rather than right out attacking them for their thoughts. By the way Dark is a female. I'm not sure their intent was to attack the entire gender, although I don't assume to speak for her.
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#8
And I could say that women's perceived affinity for expressing feelings and emotions is seen as weak and therefore their thoughts and actions in the economic and social world are discounted much more. These two ideas of course are both tied hand in hand, but I think the very fact that both genders experience double standards is why there cannot be a productive discussion over this and I also think that attacking an entire gender on a suicide forum many of whom are vulnerable women is not a productive idea.
Because double standards exist for both genders it's inherently wrong to have a discussion about those double standards? I don't see why that conversation can't happen, where your contribution can be "here's the flip-side".
I do agree that trying to bring down the opposite gender is not the most constructive approach, but i also think saying that just because double standards exist for women too, that means that we aren't allowed to even talk about the double standards for men is a flawed premise.
There is a conversation to be had about this, and it can be a productive one, but both sides need to be respectful of each other, and that applies to your side as well as Dark's.
 

sinking_ship

woman overboard
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#9
Men have been reviled for far too long. We've been at the mercy of toxic femininity for far too long. I see women just about hitting menopause and the'yre still look for 6 ft tall handsome guy earning 6 figures.

Women are deluding themselves. They think they can get as old and out of shape as they want but still land the perfect guy.

Give guys more of a chance girls. You're not all that either. You think just because you're a female you get to sety all the standards. Well it doesn't work that way. Men get to have standards too. And if a man doesn't want a tattooed gal who has had 20 different boyfriends, that's ok. Why would he want that?

This post and hopefully thread is to educate both men and women on reality. I hop we can all have a productive discussion.
I think just as many men as women do this, have unrealistic standards.
Though I do agree that typically the line of thinking in society is that women have the power in that regard since men are just 'so desperate' which is obviously just a bad cliché. I've definitely met women who will accept whatever bone is thrown their way.
 

the.end.ish

Misknown Member
#10
Because double standards exist for both genders it's inherently wrong to have a discussion about those double standards? I don't see why that conversation can't happen, where your contribution can be "here's the flip-side".
I do agree that trying to bring down the opposite gender is not the most constructive approach, but i also think saying that just because double standards exist for women too, that means that we aren't allowed to even talk about the double standards for men is a flawed premise.
There is a conversation to be had about this, and it can be a productive one, but both sides need to be respectful of each other, and that applies to your side as well as Dark's.
I think it can be a productive conversation to be had in general, I just don't think it's productive here when you are baiting people.

I don't think you should altogether abstain from a topic because both sides experience x, y, and z. I think you should abstain when it is meant to throw blame at both sides. It is harmful, here.
 

Dark111

SF Supporter
#11
I think just as many men as women do this, have unrealistic standards.
Though I do agree that typically the line of thinking in society is that women have the power in that regard since men are just 'so desperate' which is obviously just a bad cliché. I've definitely met women who will accept whatever bone is thrown their way.
either gender will accept a "bone thrown" their way. Thanks for your thoughts.
 

Gonz

Over Cardiac Arrest
#12
Women are deluding themselves. They think they can get as old and out of shape as they want but still land the perfect guy.
You know how many out of shape 40-something men I've seen trying to hit on attractive 20-something women?

Having unreasonable expectations regarding what kind of partner you're likely to attract is hardly a gendered thing.

I agree with the basic premise that issues primarily affecting men often go ignored by society and that men, as a whole, are often held overly accountable for the actions of a shitty minority.

None of which is meant to deny issues specific to women. Ultimately, I think men are seen by society as having more agency than they actually do, and women are seen as having less. And each side suffers consequences because of that.

It's the reason women aren't taken as seriously as men when they attempt to act. And why it's not taken as seriously when men are acted upon.

Or how, in general, women don't get enough credit for their contributions when things go right. But also why men often take an undue share of blame when things go wrong.

But somehow, any attempt to discuss these issues always devolves into people airing grievances about their romantic/sexual lives and somehow thinking that those kinds of issues are unique to members of their gender.

Seriously, 90-something-% of the problems people attribute to their gender, are really just people problems that affect pretty much everyone.
 

DrownedFishOnFire

Back into the wild where I belong. Out of your way
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#17
A classmate of mine was murdered by his girlfriend. Domestic violence. yes women are as bad as men.

Know it is not an easy topic whatsoever and to insult and blame a specific gender is unfair and not doing any group any favors.


I think it can be a productive conversation to be had in general, I just don't think it's productive here when you are baiting people.

I don't think you should altogether abstain from a topic because both sides experience x, y, and z. I think you should abstain when it is meant to throw blame at both sides. It is harmful, here.
This is what I 100% agree on this topic it can go south quick.
 

Nick the Fantastical Duck

☆☆Ducking Fantastic ☆☆
Safety & Support
SF Supporter
#18
This is what I 100% agree on this topic it can go south quick.
It can go south. As long as people can stay respectful and have a respectful conversation, than we can do that. If people are not able, then we lock the thread.

There is most definitely good and bad on both sides, and not one size fits all. Meaning that you it's not possible to put people into boxes. There is no such thing as ALL women or ALL men, because people are very different. Which is maybe the most important thing. People are not the all the same and you can't put all of one gender into any category. That's a really long way of saying I agree with you.
 
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