Suicide Is Not a Sin!

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by seithkein, Jan 28, 2009.

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  1. seithkein

    seithkein Well-Known Member

    Religious dogma tells us that suicide is an unforgivable sin, making suicide survivors' grief worse. I hope this helps a little.

    Someone wondered if suicide, in God's eyes, is an unforgivable sin. The answer I heard was that yes it is and not to bother grieving them since they aren't 'worth grieving over.' If I could have, I would've jumped through the computer screen to throttle the idiot that said that.

    Why does society think a quick self-imposed death is wrong while a slow self-imposed death, such as smoking or eating chemical-laden junk you know is bad for you? Notice I said society, not God. People, not God, have declared what THEY think is moral, whether you agree or not. Humans conceived the concept of 'sin' - God did not. God, in order to experience through us, declared that we have free-will, which He does not interfere with. He looks on us with unconditional Love. He's like a parent sending children out to play, hoping they don't mess us too badly, but always there with His help if need be. He doesn't judge our actions or cause bad things to happen. It's all up to us. It wouldn't be free-will if this weren't so.
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    So, suicide is NOT an unforgivable 'sin' because there is no 'sin'. Religions separate us from God by making Him seem formidable; an angry and vengeful God with human emotions who will 'forgive' if you go to their churches for salvation. It's nonsense.

    My heart aches for parents who have spent the rest of their lives believing their children are in purgatory or hell because they committed suicide. Or been shamed by being told their loved ones could not be buried in consecrated ground. These kinds of beliefs add further to the awful pain of their loss.

    Our children are fine. Do you think God would punish one of His precious parts because they were in such agony that they couldn't see any way out? Since God is pure Love and Light, He is incapable of negative emotions. When was the last time your child came to you with hurt feelings and you dashed him or her into the fireplace? It's the same thing, but God and His Angels enfold and nurture.

    If you're a suicide survivor, you may need spiritual help and the healing it brings, not religious dogma that can make you feel worse. I speak from experience (yes, that's my real name - fitting, eh?). I would go stark-raving mad if I thought for an instant God has punished my son; my beloved child who was so miserable, so hopeless and unable to live in this world that he left it the only way he knew. There was no choice, only relief.

    There is an excellent book written by Anne Puryear called "Stephen Lives!" Stephen, her son, committed suicide at age 15 and the book is about her communications with him since his transformation to the Other Side. It details very graphically his thoughts and actions preceding and including the act, plus his profound grief at the pain he caused when he hanged himself. That he had to observe the aftermath was his only 'punishment' and even then, a woman assigned to him never left his side as he witnessed his family's - especially his mother's - pain.

    Never, never dare place judgement on people who commit suicide or do anything else you disagree with. You have no idea what goes on at soul level. God doesn't punish or judge and neither should we. He Loves and so should we.
  2. Mountain_Dew

    Mountain_Dew Member

    The catholic church a few hundred years ago had an alarming number of boys in the church becoming suicidal, so the church had to find a way to stop it, primarily to keep the church growing. They eventually announced unofficially at first that suicide was a sin against God. I'm athiest so doesn't bother me, but History Channel is very informative.
  3. pensive1981

    pensive1981 Well-Known Member

    Everyone has their own beliefs about what god thinks or if there even is one. I am personally inclined to agree with you for the most part. For all the things we are told god might forgive if you repent, I find it hard to consider suicide among the worst of them.

    That said, don't do it!
  4. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    Actually, while the Catholic church does take a dim view of suicide, it appears the only way it will jeapordize your soul is if the act is done to set an example, also possibly if your suicide causes others to suicide. See here: Catechism of the Catholic Church

    Two of the entries are pretty straightforward in their opposition, but one of them allows a certain degree of wiggle room:

    FWIW, Orthodox Christianity (Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc.) actually takes a much, much, much harsher view of the practice in comparison to Catholicism. (Which is why I personally consider stuff like the claimed low suicide rate in places like Greece to be largely rubbish.) As I understand it there's no "out" in Orthodox Christianity for things like mental or even terminal illness.

    Judaism didn't have a great deal to say about the practice, one way or the other. Saul committed suicide in 2nd Kings or something like that, and there was no great moral condemnation. Ditto the whole mass suicide at Masada. I'm under the impression that suicide was first considered sinful following the writings of St. Augustine.
  5. Abacus21

    Abacus21 Staff Alumni

    Moving this into the Soap Box forum..

  6. seithkein, that definitely is the best post I have ever read on SF. You've described not only your opinions on the subject, but mine as well. It would be really great if alot more people, especially religious people, would see suicide the way we do. Anyways, thank you for writing what you wrote.
  7. soliloquise

    soliloquise Well-Known Member

    fantastic post !!

    and this is why i deem the christian " religion " ie dogma as evil. i am very sorry for your loss. your post above can help many people i think, especially those tormented by punitive christian dogma that causes them so much self loathing. and yes you are right, the parents who torment over their child in " hell " a non existant place other than the mind in this life.
    thanks for posting this. i hope you don't get too many manic christians bashing you, hopefully not. i am not christian i am pagan but relate to all that you have said...

    NO loving god/ goddess/ creator would punish any of his creations. we are responsible for our actions. everything we do creates our future reality and affects everything around us everywhere. some of the condemnation of others in society including this board disgusts me.. look at some of the threads in this soap box section full of racist rubbish about islam and muslims. your post is a ray of light

    ty xxxxxxx

  8. JohnADreams

    JohnADreams Well-Known Member

    :blink: Where was this originally posted?
  9. White Dove

    White Dove Well-Known Member

    erm ... i dont want to rain on anyones parade here because i fully agree with the very first post ( orginal poster ) but GOD has punished several of his people, he flat out destroyed annianise and saffhire when they flat out lied to him. He destroyed soddam and gommorrah and all the people in that place by fire, he changed lots wife into a piller of salt because she dis-obeyed and looked back.etc.. there are several more. you cant just take the good parts about GOD being all loving and leave out the parts where he brough rath upon others ( remember the flood?? ) he killed a lot of his people in/during the flood.

    now as to the part on suicide. in my opinion and this is my opinion because i have attempted more then once, been out of my body more then one time and seen 2 different things/diminsions. the first attempt i ever did i went to total darkness, the reason i think i went into total darkness was for GOD to show me he was very much real and could control my destiny. i think he did that first to show me or rather teach me a lesson of some kind:unsure: the other attempts and the one when i had my heart attack i seen heaven, i honestly seen heaven, believe me its nothing compared to what you were taught or told about it is a lot more beautifull and peacefull and loving. on that attempt i was hurting really badly and still went to heaven, even in a suicide. i also spoke with whom i believe to be Jesus himself, could not fully see him for it being so bright but i did speak with him. and i heard the angles singing and the harps playing and other types of music, that part has me confused because i am church of christ and they dont believe in instrumental music, but its there in heaven and it cant be denied either.. i saw it and heard it, the angles voices is unlike anything you would ever hear..

    now dont get me wrong here. i dont think others should suicide just because i said it brings you to heaven cause i didnt go to heaven on my first attempt. i went into darkness. but on the other hand i dont think its a sin to suicide either if you do it because of enouse pain. now if you go out here and suicide like a suicide bomber and take others with you then you probably would go to hell or somewhere other then heaven, okay i will hush now...
  10. daniel2

    daniel2 Banned Member

    Isn't one of the 10 commandments "thou shall not kill"? If that is a directive from God and we commit suicide, in essence killing ourselves, is that not a sin?
  11. soliloquise

    soliloquise Well-Known Member

    so basically the chrisyian god is a petty murderer lol.. i know this

    this is only relevant to christians. i am not . the bible to me means nothing. it is a collection of historic stories and is full of contradicts and things stolen from other older faiths.
    the bible if you want to talk about it portrays god as a jealous, childish, evil tyrant.. that to me is not god. NO creator will punish its creation for ending suffering.
  12. Summer.Rain

    Summer.Rain Well-Known Member

    Did you know that long time ago people who killed themselfs
    were buried without heads and far from the common burial grouds?
    Today the church got suited for such things so they "changed" the "gods word"
    just so that they will not loose money or reputation.
    It is a good example on how should we really look at religious laws and concepts.
  13. White Dove, several parts of the bible have been rewritten by man, after being written by man, whom supposedly wrote the bible because of the "inspiration" of God. If you believe everything you read in the bible, then you have to put your faith and trust in the few whom wrote it, and the few who've rewritten it to suit their needs in their quest for total power and control over the souls, minds, and hearts of millions. God did not destroy anything. Man destroyed everything, man destroys everything, and man will end his own life, therefore, all men kill themselves in some way. God does not wish us to die, yet we die, we kill ourselves everyday. We all are murderers, yet we are forgiven of our sins. God gives us that free will, yet forgives us for what we do wrong, even for those things that we do not know. We do not completely understand the almighty power of God, other than that for a being to give us that choice, that ultimate free-will power of choice, is a God who would not interfere in that choice by destroying us before we could make that choice. We were not given the choice of being born. However, that was the decision made by our earthly parents, not by God, whom doesn't create us individually, but recognizes us as new creation, there to be given a choice by God, to take what we have been given by our earthly parents, and do as we please with it. The society is what restricts that free-will power of choice. To bind us, and force us to submit to its overwhelmingly evil nature, by suffocating us to the brimstone of its fiery desire of dominance. In death, we are rescued from that horrible evil called society, and brought forth upon the glory of our ultimate creator. So forth, if suicide is a murderous unforgiveable sin, then we are all doomed to the same fate. For we all kill each other, even if just a little bit every day, and in every day, we are killing ourselves, trying to make sense of this confusing realm of dissidence and distraction away from God, upon our own lustful nature of inequity.
  14. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni

    Yes wonderful.
    Ultimately suicide is not a sin because there is no sin.
  15. Aleth

    Aleth Well-Known Member

    If you believe all that Catholic dogma, then suicides are despatched to the seventh circle of hell, along with gays and murderers.

    Being fat isn't quite as bad, since for gluttony you get sent to not-quite-as-bad third circle of hell.

    Unfortunately, if you are just depressed and don't commit suicide, then you still go to hell, since the fifth circle is reserved for sullen people!

    ~per Dante's Inferno

    I guess for a religion that promises some sort of paradise in the afterlife, they HAVE to say suicide is a sin, for why would any believer endure suffering in this world if there is a quick exit available to a perfect one?

  16. Good post, Aleth. In the beliefs in which you wrote about, everyone is going to go to hell. Basically, everyone commits murder and suicide to some degree, in some form. We all are killing and dying everyday. Religion has become a social tool of control and power, with no sense of responsibility to anyone and anything, not even to itself. I don't blame God though. I blame the God-blaming, God-demanding society.
  17. jKORE

    jKORE Senior Member

    Paradise is coming, ready or not.
  18. Kemra

    Kemra Well-Known Member

    Well.. the murderers sound kinda nasty, but most gay people are fun to be around and can usually drink me under the table. So die of suicide and be sent to the 7th circle for drinking fun and laughs broken up by the occassional Hannibal Lecter gnawing on my right foot.. or die of natural causes and go to the 5th and watch everyone mope around and complain how much better the other circles are..

    All joking aside though I wouldn't trust anything catholics say in modern times, their doctrine and bible have changed so much over the past 2000 years as to be completely unrecognisable from the teachings of their founders. Hey, theres another strange thing to.. noone discusses other religions views, for example the Wiccan law 'Do as thou will, but harm none.' Theres a challenging one, where do you draw the line at hurting others? Is it a matter of intention to hurt or can unitentional or temporary hurt, or even hurting someone to protect others from hurt be looked past as necessary. Does it include harming yourself as I was told once, and where does that harm become acceptable? After all we all hurt ourselves in some small way, whether it be diet, smoking, not enough exercise according to modern day standards that is. Can that rule be bent if it prevents future hurt?

    Isn't it funny how we get these rules and guidelines from religions yet none are really all that clear.. all left open to interpretation. Surely if there is an afterlife a few lawyers would have gotten together to write up a more ironclad document, or maybe theres no paper in the deepest and darkest circle of hell.
  19. Shiroi_Hana

    Shiroi_Hana Well-Known Member

    I cannot bring myself to believe that people who die by suicide go to any sort of negative place after death. It would just be too heartbreaking, especially thinking about the people I've lost to suicide, as well as hearing so many stories of other people having lost loved ones in the same way-- people only ever have positive things to say about these people (most of the time), they always seem to express how he or she was such a good person in life. Being in pain doesn't make you a bad person, or "damned". I completely agree; I have to believe that the pain will end after death; I can't even entertain the idea that hurting and being sad gets you punished.
  20. Winslow

    Winslow Antiquitie's Friend SF Supporter

    It depends on the culture. In Japan, suicide is socially acceptable and, in some cases, even a means of redemption. What's unique about Japan is that even though it has the highest suicide rate but it also has the lowest murder rate. So, evidently, the high suicide rate prevents murders.
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