Suicide- Why is it not accepted?

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by MeAndYou, Dec 17, 2008.

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  1. MeAndYou

    MeAndYou Well-Known Member

    Its one thing for someone to attempt suicide as a cry for help. But people who truly do not want to continue living the life they are living, and find suicide a way to accomplish that, why the fuss?

    I'm always afraid of mentioning any suicidal thoughts for fear ill be taken in a stretcher to someone who gets paid to administer drugs and "words of wisdom" that they no doubt have become jaded with. Its kinda the same thing over and over with every patient.

    So for someone who truly wants to cease existing in this physical form, who the FUCK are you (you being general) to prevent that from happening? Just as murder is illegal because someone is choosing to end someone elses life without their input, preventing someone from making that decision for themselves should also be illegal.

    I guess im just wondering if anyone else, suicidal or not, agrees.
  2. jameslyons

    jameslyons Well-Known Member

    I've been dealing with suicidal impulses for over sixteen years. Over that time I'm just starting to realize how much of that impulse is caused by depression. I'm not sure if many people are capable of making that decision without being affected by mental illness like depression. But as to the ethics--for the person I think it's fine, but suicide's leave a horrible hole for family. And it also creates a history which other family members may follow--for instance my two uncles died by suicide and my mother attempted several times; I see suicide as an option.
  3. Summer.Rain

    Summer.Rain Well-Known Member

    It is the other way around, its not the suicides of your relatives that bring
    you down, its the fact that you have metal issues in your blood line
    its the thing that makes you feel the way you are.
    I got mental health issues in my fammily too, but i got the worth of it.
    My dad have a minor depression and my mom have some wierd mental issues too.
    but as for me i am the only one that MUST be treated, i take meds every day
    to fight my demons, and it helps alot! you should also try.
  4. jameslyons

    jameslyons Well-Known Member

    Anything's better than the constant struggle. But I haven't insurance (a Stater here :)) and I can't afford therapy besides crisis psychiatric centers which end up turning me away after 20 hours.
  5. weltunter

    weltunter Member

    I agree 100% with you.

    My biggest fear is that I won't succeed in the days to come and instead will be carried away to some looney bin.
  6. tendenCs_89

    tendenCs_89 Well-Known Member

    the thing is, how can you say whether it is the right thing for you to die?
    even if you feel your choice to end your life is the right one and a measured decision, it is still your unstable brain telling you this
    human beings are not meant to terminate their own lives, and in many cases under disorders such as depression etc your mind is not as capable as making the choice as those who do not have these disorders.
    therefore however jaded and misguided someone is for telling you not to commit suicide, in many cases their opinion might be more valid over yours

    HOWEVER, this is not always the case i believe. I guess some people should, and have a right to die (such as in certain cases such as euthanasia, or suicide to save someone else (diving in front of the bullet for example - stupid example but you know what i mean))
    but with problems like depression, who can draw the line and say if its ok that someone dies or not. Who can draw the line at whether they are in a good enough mindset to be able to make the decision that they should die?

    it is obvious that humans arent meant to kill themeselves, its not in our natural psyche. We are naturally animals, and no animals kill themeselves.
    Therefore because there is so many variables and uncertainty and general shade of grey over the whole thing, as a soceity i guess we have to stop suicide wherever it crops up.
  7. Aaron

    Aaron Well-Known Member

    Nice post jameslyons...depression and suicidal ideation go hand in hand more often than not.
  8. MeAndYou

    MeAndYou Well-Known Member

    I do agree that many people are not capable of making a sound decision when it comes to taking their life. However, no one can truly experience what they are feeling inside at that moment in time but the one experiencing it.

    This is particularly a scary thought though, I will be honest. For someone who does have suicidal thoughts, I wonder how sound my judgment truly is. I can only come to the conclusion that if i am suicidal, i am not doing a good enough job convincing myself not to be (this is on good days), and that time is the best decider. But then that draws questions of where do i put my foot down and just decide? Suicide takes guts...period.

    You bring up the point that it is obvious humans are not suppose to kill themselves. While i agree with you on this, only by {} that much.

    Humans by nature are programed to survive as a species/race. Now this is called instinct. Its the very reason we have cliques in big groups, mirrors to fluff our feathers, and ultimately, consumerism. Without going into anyones religious beliefs, youre assuming that following our instinct is the right thing to do.

    I'll try and put it a different way. One may believe that, by default, life is absolutely meaningless. We live and we die, what is before and after is not known. The only thing known is that, once again, by default, life holds no meaning. You can then come to the conclusion that any meaning given to life, is given by you, the one living it. So the meaning of life is whatever you define to be important to you, in yours.

    My point being, does it really matter whether we kill ourselves or not? Who is to say that instinct is correct. Maybe we are evolving to shed the physical. Or maybe we are just gods living our fantasy, and then who is to say we choose to cease living our fantasy? There are too many beliefs, and not enough facts, to say that we should continue to live because it is human nature.
  9. levitated-one

    levitated-one Well-Known Member

    Animals do kill themselves knowingly, and unknowingly. For example, few years ago there are many whales died at the sea shore...scientist discovered that they all committed suicide..whales are intelligent creatures and they don't go to sea shores where their lives will be endangered, they'll stay away from it.. unless they're wanting to commit suicide. Scientists think that their habitats are being endangered, that's why they're committing suicide to end the pain, pain of having to suffer.

    Also, animals who don't run fast when being chased down by predators..are actually committing suicide because they "give up". Or they know they're gonna be killed anyway, so they give up running anymore..we often see this in National geographic channels.

    Now, getting back to human beings, yes..depression may cause people to make wrong decisions, but.. that's the reason! People trying to escape depression by ending it by suicide, which in return very much affected by depression itself.. it's the cycle that depressed people are living everyday, and the cycle has many levels by itself.. That's why depressed people are often trying to get out of the cycle..

    For a mentally healthy person, life may seem great because they can handle and move on..but a depressed person will get in that cycle.. See the difference here? It's always different with a mentally stable person and a depressed person. ALWAYS.

    Natural instinct is to survive from predators.. BUT when your predator is YOURSELF, that's a different story.. it's like what should I do now? Depending on how severe that level is..people commit simple as that. Because their predator is themselves, being they can't handle what's going on their mind and body can't handle..anymore.
  10. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    "Suicide: Why is it not accepted?"

    People are complete assholes. They expect us to suffer for a lifetime so they don't have to miss us.
  11. Raphael1

    Raphael1 Well-Known Member

    Society is mind controlled heavily if suicide was acceptable it would be much more difficult to herd the masses because how can you control someone when suicide is entered into the equation of choices. Think about how difficult it would make controlling people with that option acceptable. If culture accepted suicide as a right. People would just say "instead of working like a slave I'm just going to die. "Notify them of my decision". Then millions would choose to die instead of becoming slaves to the corporate state and the entire structure of slavery and control would basically crumble. That's the real reason suicide is so taboo.
  12. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    The "Sanctity of Life" and/or a savior complex. I know that I've seen many of the staff working at the hospitals I've been at that revel in the idea of saving people from a perceived bad fate and giving them happiness. Even when I'm not suicidal in the slightest I can be irritated at how so many see life, even when battling through poverty - of the mind or body - as being better.
  13. Aaron

    Aaron Well-Known Member

    Lol...and I agree with all that.
  14. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    Millions wouldn't do it. Even among those of us that have lived or are living in a constant veil of depression are people too cowed by death or the pain. Death scares us as humans as a matter of course; it's instinct.
  15. Mightbehere

    Mightbehere Well-Known Member

    I think in Ancient Greece you could chose to suicide but you had to speak to a council first and basically exhaust your options.
  16. hammockmonkey

    hammockmonkey Well-Known Member

    because the mess is fucking awful. and threeday old corpses? please that smell just doesn't come out.
  17. Dave_N

    Dave_N Guest

    Suicide is basically murder. You're killing yourself. Murder is illegal (killing someone else), thus suicide is also illegal.
  18. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    Indeed it is. And it appears that sometimes these cry for help types "succeed" where they did not mean to.

    Several reasons:

    First, some percentage of those who attempt suicide are clearly not in a rational frame of mind when they attempt. They are either suffering under a severe mental illness (bipolar, psychosis, doubtless others) or are under the influence of a controlled substance. In short, individuals in this category truly do not understand what they are doing, and probably do not realize what the results of their actions will be. I realize that this does not meet your definition above, but it is also difficult to draw a line between suicides of this sort and suicides of another type for most. To the average person a suicide is a suicide is a suicide.

    Second, some percentage of those who attempt suicide and fail but do not fall into the first category later repent of their actions. Meaning they understood what they were trying to do, meant to do what they did, but failed for whatever reason. And quite often harm themselves irreparably in the bargain. I think we can separate these folks from attempts of the "cry for help" variety, despite their later repentance. However, given that there's no do over or re-set button when it comes to ending your life, people of this sort who attempt and repent give the not too unreasonable impression that anyone who attempts and succeeds would in fact have later repented.

    Third, Western Civilization has looked down on suicide for the entire Christian Era, okay technically since the jabberings of St. Augustine circa 400 CE, but let’s keep it simple, shall we? Anyway, the ethics of Christianity, for better or worse, seem to control a great many people who are in no meaningful sense Christian, at least in the area of suicide, if nowhere else. Although instead of speaking in terms of sin and hell, the True Believers in this instance bill insurance companies at $150/hour and dogmatically assert that anyone who considers suicide a potentially rational or reasonable response to their current condition to be prima facie irrational. Any sort of deviation from the party line is marginalized, ignored or at best given grudging assent only under very limited circumstances (terminal illness, possibly chronic pain). And the spiritual descendents of Augustine will in fact do their utmost to see that this is how things remain.
    Well, there’s your first problem. Why on earth do you want to mention having such thoughts to anyone, outside of a venue like SF? Presuming you’re not interested in being talked out of a particular decision, I guess. I mean, what sort of reaction do you expect? Do you expect someone to simply say “Well, its been nice knowing you, but oh, okay, if you feel like ending your life, that works for me, too. Say, that’s a nice coat you’ve got on, how about letting me have it, seeing you won’t be needing it anymore.” Of course not…but if not that, then what? I’d personally expect that people would doubtless be concerned, apprehensive, upset, any of a number of things. Doesn’t that sound reasonable, in any sort of Western Civilization type setting?

    Besides, if there’s one decision that is your own to make, it is the one about whether or not to continue living. What right do you have to demand a sanction for your actions from another individual?
    I’m not so sure this is likely to happen, merely if you bring something up in a conversation. But it isn’t all that unreasonable a response from a friend or even acquaintance, given the culture in which we live. Like I said, you start bringing up your suicidal thoughts to others, what sort of reaction do you think you’ll get?
    Well, who are you to burden them with this sort of knowledge and then expect them to sit back and do nothing?

    Note that I don’t dispute you the right to end your own life, or for that matter me the right to end my own life, it is simply that others will most likely thing what you’re doing is wrong and move to stop it, if you inform them of it.
    I might actually agree with this, if I thought everyone who attempts suicide is a rational agent, at a minimum acting only after a fair amount of reflection, and not on some sort of impulse. Unfortunately, this is not the case, so, I must disagree that such conduct should be made illegal. There’re a great many suicide attempts prevented, where the person making the attempt is quite happy later on the attempt was prevented.
    I agree with some of what you’re saying, but disagree with most of it. I am about as far away from being “pro-life” as it is possible to be, but I also do NOT think suicide should ever be made as easy as going out to eat. (BTW, an idea satirized by Kurt Vonnegut in his Sci-fi short story Welcome to the Monkey House, complete with “Ethical Suicide Parlors” next door to a Howard Johnson’s restaurant.) It should be difficult, and should be an action meditated upon and thought about with extreme due care.
  19. Raphael1

    Raphael1 Well-Known Member

    Manson is a great artist. A satanic one. I've never herd this argument against love before.

    You can't be taught love. You find love. Then how do you feel? That's it's value.
  20. jim_jones

    jim_jones Member

    Murder isn't illegal, depends on who you want to kill.
    The reason suicide is a big deal is it's an insult to whatever society you happen to be a member of, it's the ultimate rejection.
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