Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by GabrielConroy, Aug 26, 2009.
what so triggering about it?
its just a youtube wannabe
this website is a FAIL and will probably die in a few months
Using the word "gay" to mean "lame" is so gay
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/8/17/ - says it all.
i don't understand your hostility towards this website?Could you help me understand?
Its actually kinda terrible.
Just wondering if anyone looked at this page.
Okay, so homophobia is a bad thing.
But how is stereotyping any better?
Its almost like they're trying to give people the impression that if they don't join the campaign they're morons or friendless.
This is especially terrible.
"Besides.. God is listening!"
So there you go. Call something "gay" and God will hate you. Lovely.
Anyway, I highly doubt that when people call something "gay" they are literally comparing it to a gender preference. I'm not saying its right, but wouldn't it be a good idea to spend more of our time trying to reduce blatantly hostile, cruel insults and threats?
Thinking about it, I don't think I've ever met a homosexual who has been offended by the term. They've always been aware that people don't mean it as an insult to them and don't read too much into it. That could just be the area I'm living in, though.
How about to a closeted kid in junior high? How do they feel about the term?
Since you're on the topic, so is that internet meme "fail". It reminds me of some arrogant spoilt teenage brat.
I despise that term, "That's so gay". I grew up on the street, raised by people in the gay community, and am bi-sexual myself. It's as bad as saying, "That's so retarded", and I'm sure half the people who say, "That's so gay" would go ballistic over someone saying, "That's so retarded" because of political correctness. How hypocritical. It shows ignorance, immaturity and prejudice. Defending the saying shows the same.
In junior high they're probably more likely to use it themselves, aren't they? To sort of draw attention away from them, in a sense? I understand what you're saying and I do understand why it would upset some people. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't offend everyone.
I wasn't defending it at all, but its become a socially acceptable term by the majority so it just doesn't seem like this campaign is going to change things.
No, it's become a socially acceptable term by kids and the Internet. Most of the people I know would never use that term to mean anything but homosexual.
It was socially acceptable for blacks to be slaves until someone decided to change it. Sorry, that excuse doesn't work for me.
When you get offended by someone saying thats so gay, you need to stop being such a fag
Honestly, no one is gonna go through life without being directly insulted, never mind taking offence at things aimed overs. Although the site does have a great point.
No one thinks before they say it, therefore theirs no malaise towards the homosexual community, unlike when you take the piss out of midgets and gingers XD
No, they really wouldn't.
Sorry, my opinion stands:
Bullying is what got half of the people who are here, here. Thinkaboutit.
I didn't say it was an excuse. I meant that its so socially acceptable right now that this particular campaign is too poorly contructed to do anything about it.
It's a tired pop-culture cliche at best, and a trigger for someone at worst. There's no need to even use them in the first place -- if you think something that someone is talking about is unrealistic, ridiculous, or any number of other synonyms for "bad," just call it unrealistic, ridiculous, or BAD. There's no need to conflate the meaning of those words with a facet of someone's identity.
For people who identify as GLBTQ -- as well other people who are at unprivileged positions in society; but that's a much broader topic -- hearing these slurs used in casual conversation is yet another reminder that by and large, they're invisible to society. They're acceptable as comic relief characters and permitted to prance for our entertainment, but as soon as they ask for any kind of real respect, we say that they're asking too much. It's not restricting your freedom of speech to stop using the word in a way that degrades its meaning. A slur is a slur, and when you use it in the public sphere, it doesn't matter if you "don't mean it that way" or "have gay friends who are okay with it." It's your job to be informed of the history and social consequences of your language.
For people who consider themselves allies, it's not enough to just be nice to your GLBTQ pals. It involves speaking out against oppression on the macro level, including language like this.
Please don't misunderstand, I don't use the term myself and I didn't mean that it was acceptable to me, personally, only that my friends have accepted it and it doesn't bother them. My point was just that most people don't understand what they're saying.. but still. I agree with the goals of this campaign, but not their methods. The stereotyping I mentioned earlier really gets to me.
Stereotyping gets to me as well. And saying that your friends (who I assume are gay or bi-sexual? Or you wouldn't be referencing them) "have accepted it or it doesn't bother them" perhaps is assuming. Have you actually asked them? And are they being honest in their response? Because as it stands now, many people are afraid to stand up against this, and many other prejudices, for many reasons. Sometimes they're just afraid of not "looking cool", or perhaps garnishing even more unwanted attention and possibly losing friends. I'm not. I don't care what you (or anyone else) think of my opinion on this. I care about what's right. And you admit this isn't right - so why not stick up for those who are trying to stop it, rather than validating or excusing it? Even if their way isn't perfect, its the thought and attempt that counts. :wink: :biggrin: :hug:
I didn't mean to single you out in any way, Rayne, and I'm sorry if I caused you distress. It's just that seeing this kind of intolerance really gets me fired up, in general. And, like I said before, I see it as the duty of someone who would call themselves an "ally" to not let stuff slide when they see it.
If a web campaign isn't going to change anything, then it's our job to change it on a direct level. The first step is just being aware of all the benefits a person who identifies as GLBTQ is denied. It's not just the big ones like marriage equality or adoption rights. Heterosexual people have the benefit that their relationships and identities are acknowledged as the "default." We have no shortage of positive representation and access to whatever outlets of expression we want. Including, if we feel like it, the ability to casually degrade a person who is GLBTQ with our conversation, and then dismiss them as being oversensitive when they ask that we stop. If we wanted to, we could continue to section GLBTQ people off (give 'em their own bars, their own neighborhoods, their own TV channels, whatever) and continue to ignore them for as long as we felt like it -- because we've structured society to serve us. Yet, they're still forced to deal with our prejudice every day.
This is a part of our society, and although it's not any one person's fault for causing it, it's all of our responsibility to fight it. Examining the things you're able to take for granted and building empathy for the people who don't have them will go a long way.
We can sit here and debate whether it is right or wrong all we feel like, it makes no difference. We all know its wrong, on some fundamental level, but its still accepted because, frankly, it is whats normal.
You cannot fight thins kind of thing, and thats the truth of it. This is a lot like the "war on drungs", or "the war on terrorism", where PC or otherwise self righteous people decide they want to look like theyre making a difference by declaring war on something that you will never, under any circumstances, defeat.
It is not a matter of right or wrong, its a matter of of reality vs utopia. Its all fine and good if you choose to fight for something you cant win against, but reality has always dictated that these kinds of things have prevailed uniformly throughout history. Why is this? Because this kind of behavior is normal human behavior, and will be for as long as there are people who think freely. A free thinking society will always strive to create its own venacular as a means of identifying itself as different. Its not a matter of hate and biggotry as it is a matter of societal trends weaving their way through the populace.
In a nutshell, what Im saying is that the practice of identifying something (or in this case, someone) using a term that doesnt directly correspond with that thing is something that happens naturally, as a result of societal trends. We call tissues "Kleenex", we call gypsum board "Sheetrock", we call vacuuming "Hoovering", and we call a shitty situation a "gay" situation. The simple reality is that this is something that will happen naturally, and you cannot fight a societal trend after it becomes a societal trend. The only thing you can do is take measures to keep things from becoming one of thes trends before it becomes one. Prevention before proaction.
If you are someone who believes that fighting the use of the word "gay" as an insult will make any substantial difference outside of your own psyche, then I implore you to take your will to fight to a real fight. Homosexuals are being denied basic fundamental human rights on nearly all fronts, and the practice of using them as societal scapegoats is all but encouraged by many powerful groups. This is disgusting, and should be a call to arms to anyone who values their own freedoms. If everyone stopped using the term "gay" as a casual insult right this second, homosexuals would still be denied fundamental human rights, and while you may feel youve made a difference, all youve actually done is fight a housefire by turning the air conditioner on. Youre a bit cooler, but your home is still burning to the ground.
I think this ad campaign makes a real good point, by the way. If everyone stopped using the term "gay" as an insult, it would be immidiately replaced by something else, and the process would continue all over again. Teach tolerance and acceptance, not political correctness.