The BNP's appearance on Question Time

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Abacus21, Oct 22, 2009.

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  1. Abacus21

    Abacus21 Staff Alumni

    I presume that a fair few Brits on here watched the BBC show Question Time tonight, which had the BNP's Nick Griffin on the panel.

    To those who don't know what this is about, the BNP is the British National Party, and stands for those Brits who are white and a 'truly' British, and put Brits first. They have recently (yesterday, I believe) amended their policy to allow black and asian members into their party.. Some people compare the BNP to the Nazis, I believe. It's essentially an extremist right-wing party. Here's a link to the BBC news article.

    My own personal take on it, is that while I abhore the BNP, its values, no matter how nicely Griffin dresses it up - he has a valid point, in saying that once a party reaches a certain level (quickly or otherwise), they have a right to be recognised.

    I think it was absolutely right that the BBC allowed the BNP to sit on the panel tonight, not because I agree with them as a party, but because its fundamental to democracy that everyone gets to share their viewpoint no matter, some would say 'misguided', it is.

    I also thought it was fascinating, but also wrong, how the other members of the panel simply sat and essentially attacked Griffin for the whole show, without asking any questions that were put to them themselves. Attack the man's party's policies yes, but the man himself - no.

    Your thoughts?
     
  2. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

    You've said exactly what I think Joe. In fact I walked out of the room when I saw how the thing was turning into a let's lynch Nick Griffin party. Don't agree with him or his party's policies, but he has the inalienable right to be heard. And you've got to ask, if the BNP have such a following, and that's worrying, how is attacking them going to resolve anything?

    I actually (rather foolishly it seems) assumed that the session would be a reasonable debate about all those issues, that would have been the best way to point out flaws in his policies. But interesting to see just how much anger and hatred it's generated. both against him personally and against the BNP itself.
     
  3. anonymous51

    anonymous51 Staff Alumni

    Nick Griffin had his chance to answer the questions, and failed miserably. As a leader of a political party it is an essential skill to remain calm and focused when being barraged by questions, showing that he can't has proven that he is not fit to be a politician.
     
  4. Ordep

    Ordep Well-Known Member

    Tough I'm not British, I do agree with your opinions on the issue. In a democracy, everyone has the right to speak as long as they have big enough a voice to be heard. Good choice by the BBC.

    Now, if that party starts actually taking action against immigrants, that's when democracy needs to be restrained. That and propaganda in the same tone as that infamous posters in Switzerland made by another Nazi-ish party. In a cultured and civilized society like ours, some public displays cannot simply be made because, despite the fact we're in a democracy, human rights are still more important than that.

    (for anyone who might not know what Swiss posters I'm talking about:
    http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_01/SwissSheepL_468x635.jpg
    the slogan reads "For better security.")
     
  5. Aurora Gory Alice

    Aurora Gory Alice Well-Known Member

    I didn't agree with the way it seemed to turn into a scathing attack against Nick Griffin, sure. And yes I believe in democracy but my feeling is simply - that was bound to happen and did anybody expect any less?

    Unless Nick Griffin does a 'Parkinson' type interview where he is allowed to voice his opinions on an unbiased platform, he is never going to get anything other than what he got this evening.
    And I can't say I feel sorry for him, because I think everything he stands for is complete and utter ****!
     
  6. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    to quote Voltaire, " I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it. "

    Enough said.

    and I loathe the BNP!
     
  7. me1

    me1 Well-Known Member

    Sounds like you're describing a pantomime, Joe. Perhaps that was the whole purpose?
     
  8. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    I found it most amusing that the "anti fascist" movement were protesting outside the BBC against their decision to allow the BNP a voice.

    The irony is so thick I'm using it too weatherproof my flatroof.
     
  9. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    I've heard many bad things about the BNP, but regardless they deserve a voice like any other political group. A democracy is measured by the freedom it gives its dissidents more than anything.
     
  10. wibble

    wibble Well-Known Member

    Its nice to know that I'm not the only one that thinks this. ALthough people deride the validity of the BNP, the thing is, if they were not representing certain peoples views, they would not have seats in the european parliment or council seats. I dont agree with the BNP, except in so far as something needs to be done about immigration, as frankly, its taking the piss at the moment.

    Having met Mr Griffin once, I can honestly say the man is a bit of a prick.
     
  11. Xaos

    Xaos Well-Known Member

    To be fair he did remain reasonably calm and focused.
     
  12. Xaos

    Xaos Well-Known Member

    Yup, they organised a protest to prevent Nick Griffin from voicing his controvercial views on Question Time, but they had nothing against Anjem Choudary voicing his controvercial views on various BBC and ITV programs. Are Choudarys views more moral, or more deserving of public recognition? I think not, but its better to hear for yourself what they (racist BNP & nutty Muslims) have got to say than hearing hear-say from those that would have had the controvercial views banned from being heard directly.
     
  13. anonymous51

    anonymous51 Staff Alumni

    How can you give freedom to a bunch of people who believe in the opposite of equality? If they are allowed to express their views on facism, then does that not give us equal right to criticise them?

    Democracy is a flawed philosophy in the same way that human beings are flawed. I believe that facism has no place in society, because it is anti-democratic in its very principle, therefore it is impossible for us to allow a facist party to represent itself in our country.

    You cannot give freedom to those who oppose freedom, it just doesnt make any sense. Its like offering the keys to your car to someone who has no intention of giving it back to you.
     
  14. JohnADreams

    JohnADreams Well-Known Member

    What's that quote? When fascism returns it will be under the guise of anti-fascism.
     
  15. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    Because that is the pillar of a free society. Who are we to decide who should speak and who shouldn't? If you make exceptions, you risk broadening the oppression. As long as you're not a danger to society why should your voice be quashed? I understand the argument against hate speech and the problems it can make, but then again that's why other voices - those in opposition - can be allowed, so that no one view dominates.

    And yes, of course it gives us the equal right to criticize them. Did I ever say otherwise?

    Every philosophy is a flawed philosophy. Democracy, as Churchill said, is just the least flawed. Would you rather have the other options?

    Your analogy is not comparable. These men are not hijacking the country, though some would probably like to, they're using the democratic medium provided to them (now if they were trying to do so, obviously that's a different story). The BNP, like most extremist groups, is very fringe and not immensely popular. Their views are monstrous but we shouldn't stoop to their level to stop them. If anything, it may only strengthen them, as the need for "struggle" tends to do.

    There you have the point: in a democratic society, most people are obviously democratic. You act as if giving people a voice is going to lead to a dictatorship. Better to give them an outlet for their views - beliefs they're going to have whether you oppress them or not - than stifle them and just cause more problems.

    And before anyone uses the example of interwar Germany, that was a completely different scenario and Hitler had long reduced the system to a shell of his own making.
     
  16. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    while i dont agree 100% with the BNP and abhorr racism i do believe that as a tax paying member of society if i have a crisis i should have priority over a foreign person who has only just entered the country in regards to housing. My godmother was kicked out of her house with her child and when she rang the housing office for richmondshire area she was bluntly told by the woman " you are the wrong color and have too few children to be helped."
    This i personally think is atrocious and believe the common idea that "Pride of your nationality is the first step to racism" is bollocks too, i am a proud yorkshireman and until recently was sort of proud to be english but that in no way has ever compelled me to act or speak in racist terms.
    While i agree wholeheartedly that everyone on this planet deserves a chance to have a home and a family and be free from prejudice i do also believe that priority should not be for foreigners to have homes and for our own countrymen to be put out on the street. The problem lies within the actual housing system and the priority issue stems from it. The fact that a house is not very expensive to build but due to the greed of people the retail price is vastly inflated.
    I have seen amazing schemes wereby homeless people, whether natural citizens or foreign, have the chance to build their own houses and whilst building also get trained with certain skills for future employment, the house once built can either be bought for very low price or part-owned with the council, paying low rent.
    Schemes like this seem to be a good way forward and if used on a larger scale would also give so many people trades that the competition within those trades would decrease prices thereby impacting on the price of building houses in the first place.
     
  17. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    An interesting afternoon at speakers corner, a nazi was on his soap box spouting forth, no holocaust, Hitler was right etc.
    A hadasic jew gave as good as this fool gave, police hovered in the background, everyone went home in one piece... I LOVE ENGLAND!!
     
  18. Abacus21

    Abacus21 Staff Alumni

    :thumbup: 'tis good to see that we can actually have debates (if you can call it that), or rather - opposing views - and not resort to violence :)
     
  19. Zoe

    Zoe Well-Known Member

    He came across as an embarrassing buffoon and thoroughly deceptive.
     
  20. Xaos

    Xaos Well-Known Member

    You're kidding right? UAF members have been arrested due to violence a number of times, they're the type of people that go to a protest, cause a riot, then start screaming 'police brutality'. What twats.
     
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