The British Benefits system and how hard it fails

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by FrainBart, Aug 10, 2013.

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  1. FrainBart

    FrainBart Staff Alumni

    The UK has a system to provide benefits for those looking for work, or who are incapable of working. An independent company named ATOS are hired in to evaluate a person on if they qualify for receiving ESA (employment and support allowance) and DLA (disability living allowance). They receive large subsidaries for every claimant they deem fit for work... And in some cases it doesnt work to plan.

    http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=in_the_back&issue=1345

    So With reading that, is ATOS a worthy company for assessing claimants?
     
  2. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    Doesn't matter, governments commonly outsource work to what they can claim are efficient and effective private corporations and when those corporations fail to do the work the government is supposed to, the government blames the corporation.

    In a world where some one as corrupt as the former Prime Minister of Italy is given basically nothing more than a slap on the wrist for destroying his entire country and ruining the lives of millions, we can only see that the old saying "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" is still true.
     
  3. lost81

    lost81 Staff Alumni

    We have to remember there is a common stigma with people in benefits, that is never going to go away and any government would rather no one gets it at all, that is why they have such strict procedure and rules and they can get away with it because of the general stigma of it all. That is really good of private eye to bring it to light but it won't ever change minds. Also as bad as it is it still seems a hell of a lot less harsh than most other countries benefits systems. I'm not defending it at all as I know how bad it all is but at same time it could be a hell of alot worse. Lets pray it never does come to that.
     
  4. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    It is often commonly learned that a privately run company can manage performance better than if the government itself was running a program or service. As long as there are policies and procedures in place that meet the standards set forth by the government and law, it should not be an issue. Independent audits on compliance and performance are a tool that can be used to monitor this. With even the best running machine, there will always be some glitches, of course. Despite a 'media' report, therefore, it would be necessary to have accumulated data to support any claims of failure, mishap, or wrong doing. Remember that people who work and pay taxes want to be assured that there are processes in place to ensure that only those deserving are compensated with tax payer monies. Sometimes mistakes occur. I'd rather judge based upon a more official and data weighed report.
     
  5. lost81

    lost81 Staff Alumni

    The mind set is sanction first fook everything else. That is how it has always been. They purposely set up impossible situations sometimes to try to catch/trick people and It isn't just a case of safeguarding the system either, it is a lot more than that and very underhanded but like said, they can get away with it because of the stigma attached to it. Cases like this happen on a day to day basis, actually not really because hardly anyone that tries to appeal will win.

    And all the talk of it being a private company is bollocks. Government put them into that position. I wonder why?.. Passing the buck so it doesn't come back to them more like.

    I'll give example. I go into to see them and say "Look been looking for a job for over a year now, I fail hard at interview stage because my confidence is 0 atm and it is putting me off seeking work" They know this is common feeling with those been out of work for a long time. What do you think they will say next? "Don't worry we will provide more help with that"? Nope! They will pick up on me saying I'm being put off seeking work and I'd be lucky to leave the place without a sanction.. That is not me exaggerating either as I am sure many would tell you. They are trained not to help but to catch people out and they are certainly not trained to take circumstances into account. I think being on death bed would be the only viable excuse they would accept.

    This isn't a new thing either btw.

    http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2011/03/no-answers-to-our-atos-origin.html

    Atos have raised concerns for well over 2 years now. Yet government still feel they are right people for job. I think that tells you what you need to know.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2013
  6. flowers

    flowers Senior Member

    For me, the questions is this: Why is the government of the UK paying extra ( incentive) to deem people fit for work? I personally think that any company that is contracted to do the evaluations would have to be willing to play by those same rules. Reject as many applicants as possible. With a government kickback when that is successfully done. I do think that the UK government is no more dishonest or self serving than many other governments. Take for instance where I live.
     
  7. Butterfly

    Butterfly Pokémon Master Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    ATOS are just a shower of shit. I am all for catching the benefit cheats but this is NOT the way to go about it. ATOS will not take into consideration a medical professionals opinion e.g specialist consultant or psychiatrist etc who knows the claimant well. People are who clearly unfit to work and have this backed up by their doctors are being forced into work because of their poxy, unrealistic criteria. A medical specialists opinion is worth nothing to them and it's sickening. A decision based on a 5-10 minute interview conducted by people with no knowledge or expertise. People who are blind who can no longer work have been forced to seek work, even a woman with the mental age of a 3 year old has been told she is fit to work. The whole scheme is a sham. It's disgusting the way our government are treating our disabled.
     
  8. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    my ex had an ATOS appointment, she has an illness which could kill her at any time, she also has bipolar and serious anxiety issues, she went to the medical, when in the assesment she freaked out, had a massive attack, then passed out on the floor unconscious...the ATOS employee told her mother to pick her up and put her in the chair, when she came round she had yet another attack and started screaming for help. Her mother calmed her down then the assessor asked her to put her hands above her head and some other menial tasks....the outcome....apparently she was fit for work.

    ATOS is ot about medical assessment, its about being the governments way to get people off benefits without having to look like the dicks they are. that is all
     
  9. FrainBart

    FrainBart Staff Alumni

    I think my main problem is, the ones who are honestly in need of the support (blind/deaf/physically handicapped) and are telling the truth and being honest, are not getting the support they need. Yet those who are lazy, who are benefit cheats, go through and "say the right answers" get it thrown at them. My ex's family being a prime example. Before their atos appt, they were "gathering evidence" but as soon as after the appeal (thy originally got rejected) was won, he was out doing normal things like a normal person, and just this week, he was perfectly capable of earning money performing for someones wedding...

    Its examples like that, that I find disgraceful.
     
  10. meaningless-vessel

    meaningless-vessel Well-Known Member

    Maybe you could do a whistle-blowing exercise... - see if there's a way they could be caught out for their "cheating" aspects.
     
  11. lost81

    lost81 Staff Alumni

    Its not that they are cheating, they are allowed to because government say so which is far worse and just shows you how grossly unfair and uncaring the whole system is. People say the government are only in touch with the rich and able, the fact the government put these assholes in there and continues to, proves that.
     
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