The Cancer myth

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by noplacetogo, Sep 22, 2008.

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  1. noplacetogo

    noplacetogo Well-Known Member

    I think there's a culture of lies surrounding cancer. What I mean by this is, doctors and pharmacists do not know exactly what cancer is or exactly what it does to the human body. I've had this nagging question for a long time about the disease, How does cancer kill? So the other day, I looked up some information at the library and you know what I found, nothing. I found no answers to that question, only ways to diagnose tumors and ways to treat them. There was no information about the symptoms cancer causes and no theories about how one may die from cancer if it goes untreated. All other disease books contain symptoms and everything else you need to know if you have the said disease. but the cancer books I looked at only gave you methods of detecting tumors and then gave you a rundown of what you can do to get rid of those tumors and a small list of what you can do to prevent tumors. Where was the symptom checklist?? I'm aware that there are a lot of different types of cancers and they each have their own symptoms, but I even looked at specific cancer books and there was nothing. So I go online and researched there and you know what I found, nothing. No one saying anything about how a person actually dies from untreated cancer. I looked up the lifespan of untreated cancer patients... nothing. looked up symptoms after so many years of untreated cancer, nothing. Nothing. Now I know that cancer seems to still be a huge mystery to medical sciences, but it's been over 50 years and I can't even get any information about symptoms or survival rates?? Am I crazy or is something going on here? The rate of cancer death is growing, but due to what?? Chemo? The medicine they are giving these patients? Tumors are removed without question, even benign ones when doctors know that sometimes they go away on their own. It's a source of immense fear for so many people but why? I don't understand. There isn't any factual information. There's just oncologist and specialist who seem to barely know what they are doing and we take it as scripture.
    Something is not right. I'm not gonna argue that cancer causes a lot of pain and heartache, but I'm just so agitated at the fact that no one really seems knows anything about this disease that seems to be killing everyone.
    ~~If anyone here knows anyone who's died of untreated cancer (meaning no tumors removed, no meds taken for it), please enlighten me. I am dying to know the truth behind this mysterious disease.
  2. anonymous51

    anonymous51 Staff Alumni

    The reason it is so massivley diagnosed these days compared to before is because we have only recently been acknowledging cancer as an actual disease. Before cancer was an actual medical condition people believed cancer patients literally "just died" or misdiagnosed the case. Cancer was more of an umbrella term for various different illnesses, much like schizophrenia, it wasnt until recently that docters have started taking serious action on dealing with cancer as a unique illness. The way that cancer works is that it doesnt really damage the body, what is dangerous about it is that the human immune system identifies it as an alien product in the body and starts attacking it, it is your own immune system that is actually killing you.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2008
  3. Ozibuna

    Ozibuna Well-Known Member

  4. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni

    I read this book called You Can Heal Your Life where this therapist worked with cancer patients on forgiveness and loving themselves and she saw cancer melt away.
  5. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Cancer is a malignant tumour. It is not a whole-body disease. It begins with abnormal cell division in certain tissues, and then, and this is what makes it cancer, it begins destroying the healthy cells around it. Lung cancer destroys the lungs, stomach cancer destroys the stomach. Some of these aren't fatal... But the cancerous cells can spread through blood or lymph. They're not marked as enemies, as they're slightly modified native cells, so the white blood cells do not destroy them. Once they arrive at other organs, they will continue multiplying and destroying adjacent cells. This will kill you, if it gets into your lungs or any other critical organs. The death due to cancer can be because of a variety of different things, but for the most part, it has to do with the death of vital cells - like lung cells or liver cells. It exists, it's dangerous.

    Another reason for the spread of cancer diagnoses is the improvement in medical technology. Treatable diseases kill fewer people nowadays, so untreatable ones are ultimately the cause of death.

    Was that book properly cited and backed by large-scale clinical double blind trials? I don't like the corruption of medical -science-
  6. Eric

    Eric Well-Known Member

  7. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    I think you need to do far more research before you come to such silly conclusions.

    Early symptoms of cancer can be vague, variable or even nonexistent. Sometimes, cancer isn't discovered until it causes severe symptoms that aren't easily mistaken for minor things and cause a person to seek medical care. Often, it isn't discovered until it's become advanced and then it generally becomes much more difficult to treat.

    The cause of death can be just as variable. It really depends on the individual and many other things. Often, untreated or untreatable cancer will simply spread until it hits a vital organ (Like the brain or the liver) or the immune system simply gives out.

    Even when people have been treated successfully, there's usually a high probability that some malignant cells remain and the cancer will eventually return. Survival rates are usually listed in terms of five years. After five years, if the patient is still alive, the odds generally seem to improve.

    Researchers do know what cancer does to the body but sometimes they don't know why or how. Some cancers are particularly aggressive. Others take a lot of time. The treatments that are used for particularly bad cancers are also often bad for normal cells. That is why chemotherapy and radiotherapy often make the patient ill.

    What researchers are still working on is how to target cancer cells exclusively without killing or damaging healthy cells. They have had some success but there's still a long way to go. Most treatments for cancer are constantly evolving.

    The answer to most of your questions is that cancer is incredibly complex. Researchers never claimed they completely understand it.

    As for statistics, statistics on any given thing can be hard to find. But if you look hard enough, I'm sure you'll find all the answers you seek.

    It isn't a conspiracy. It's just a matter of the answers being scattered loosely about and most of them are so incredibly complicated that they're difficult to answer in laymen terms.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2008
  8. noplacetogo

    noplacetogo Well-Known Member

    I took a look at some of the sites you guys offered. The wiki one gave me a little info for some of my questions, but it's not really the question of "what is cancer" that I'm asking. I'm asking about untreated cancer and what it does to someone. There was some useful information though, thanks. The second site that two of you posted gave a little more info, but of course is still missing that vital answer I'm looking for. I searched one of the other links and found a journal article on the life expectancy of untreated cancer patients and read some interesting data (btw Eric, was the search really that simple? It was a little hard for me but I probably just suck at researching) Looks like the average age of untreated cancer patients in the study is around 48-57. out of these cases, it looks like half died in about 2 years and 75% in about 4 years. In some cases, complete remission was evident without any form of treatment.

    There were some other scholarly articles that I wasn't able to access. If anyone can link me to some more info on untreated cancer and death rates, it would greatly appreciated.

    They were cited. But the books I looked at were about having cancer and how to deal with it. They were not cancer research books so there weren't any tests cited in the books. Actually the libarary I was at is very small one and their selection of books on cancer is small. I just found it odd that the books I looked at didn't offer any of the information that I think would be important to someone who has cancer.
    I probably should've noted specific cancers in my argument (i am mostly concerned about breast cancer) but I do understand that cancer involves many different types. But then why is it always lumped into one defining condition when it's mentioned in the media?

    mind over matter. needless to say, I believe.

    that was very rude and unjustified of you.
    I never said there was a conspiracy.
  9. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    I meant the one about foregiveness healing cancer. That's the one that needs to be properly cited. And, "mind over matter" has no basis in fact.
  10. *dilligaf*

    *dilligaf* Staff Alumni

    okay firstly the cancer im talking about WAS treated but still, you wanted to know about the symptoms of what cancer does to a body here's my experience with my nan.

    she had lung cancer so obviously she struggled to breathe. she had tremendous pain in her chest and back. she had no appetite at all. eventually the tumor in the lung will grow so that it is either A) blocking the oxygens passageway through to the lungs and you will die from basically not being able to breathe or b) it will cover so much of the lung itself that there's not enough room for the oxygen and you basically suffocate. the other option is that yur heart will eventually give up because its being put under so much strain just trying to keep going.

    as for there being no information on the symptons of cancers, thats not true. when i found out my nan had cancer i found loads of websites and books with symptoms in. go to google and search for cancer symptons
  11. me1

    me1 Well-Known Member

    I dont think the OP had drawn any conclusions, had they? They seemed to be perplexed and searching for answers.

    Indeed, particularly if you dont actually have cancer:

    " reality more than half of the tumors
    discovered during screening were of a sort that would
    not have led to disease," Maehlen said.

    As now their useless, self-defeating methods are exposed for what they represent.

    1) The treatment
    2) The disease
    3) The synergistic effect of both.

    Indeed, if they're misdiagnosed then they'll live on for many years and die of something else, maybe even cancer induced by the treatment they had all those years earlier for a 'cancer' they never actually had, hence remained in 'remission' from it for a long time.

    Depends upon what health-strategies the individual undertakes.

    Orthodox cancer treatments can cause neighbouring tissue sites to become cancerous.

    Indeed, if you didn't have cancer and consequently live for five years post diagnosis then there's a likely chance that you'll live for a further five years in the absence of something you were already free from to begin with.

    Indeed, it's also why orthodox treatments kill patients quicker than no treatment at all.

    Especially when they're damning!

    I beg to differ.
  12. Darken

    Darken Well-Known Member

    I agree with arthur. There is difinitely some thing not right when it comes to this disease. I personally believe there is cures but they don't want people to get ahold of them. I'm sure there is some natural medicines and diet types that help fight cancer and even cure it. Smoking cannabis shrinks tumors and stops spread of cancer also, marijuana is a very beneficial plant. No it's not just for pain. THey don't want people to know about that either.
  13. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    "The cancer myth" in the title sounded quite a bit like a conclusion to me.
  14. noplacetogo

    noplacetogo Well-Known Member

    Have you ever heard of the placebo effect?

    That title was meant to catch people's attention, like most titles. I hope you read more than the title.

    Thanks for posting the link Arthur. Very interesting indeed.

    I want to ask you sam, do you know when your nan started experiencing those symptoms, for instance, before she was diagnosed, or after or during cancer therapy..etc...? Sorry she had to go through that btw.

    I don't necessarily believe anyone really has a "cure" for cancer. The line of reasoning goes that doctors get cancer too. If there was a secret cure, it would be too hard to hide. Though I do think that the cancer industry greatly profits from the fears of the public. A ridiculous amount of money gets funneled into cancer research every day, yet no one with cancer is reaping the benefits. People are encouraged to get screened for cancer every year, imagine the profits. And then those who find lumps are in such fear that they will do anything the doctor suggests, including dangerous expensive invasive surgery.
  15. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    My girlfriends Grandad was taken into hospital yesterday, semi concious and confused and has since been diagnosed with very advanced lung cancer, apparently they're not sure whether they're going to treat it yet or not and it is terminal.
    Regardless, he is dying and he has not had any treatment other than antibiotics for what was mistaken as a chest infection.
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