The Good Book???

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by bhawk, Nov 26, 2010.

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  1. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    Well as there are people on here promoting the word of god i feel i need to ask questions. I am seeing people quoting the nice areas of the bible but disregarding the parts which are foul, which despite being foul are the word of god and should therefore be followed if one wishes to enter heaven.
    Firstly they believe the word of god is law, hence i wish to know if they truly believe in the morality and righteousness of a god that wishes for the following examples.

    Leviticus 12:1-8 New International Version 2010

    this states that a woman who has given birth to a boy is unclean for a week, at 8 days the boy is to be circumsized. she is then not allowed to touch anything sacred or enter sanctuary for 33 days.

    However, if it is a baby girl she is "unclean" for TWICE as long, and she is not allowed to enter sanctuary for twice as long.

    Is this to say women are actually lesser than men? somehow more unclean?

    Oh yes and after it she has to offer a lamb to be burnt and a dove to be sacrificed for sin....animal cruelty?

    Next:

    Deuteronomy 22:20-21 New International Version 2010

    If a woman who lives with her father is found to be not a virgin she is to be dragged to the doorstep and stoned to death.

    Now this again is the word of god, so do you condone this?

    Leviticus 21:9 New International Version 2010

    A priests daughter caught being a prostitute is to be burnt!

    Bit harsh dont you think, not very loving and compassionate :unsure:

    Hosea 13:16 New International Version 2010

    while talking about destroying a city they say the little ones will be dashed to the ground and the pregnant women are to be ripped open!

    Now this is only my first post i will add more, i dont want answers that avoid the main points, i wish to know that if you believe the word of god is law and that you should indeed follow god do you actually condone this
     
  2. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    Genesis 19:4-8 New International Version 2010

    Judges 19:22-30 New International Version 2010

    Both of these tell the same story, the man in the story is a priest resting at another mans house, best thing to do is just let you read it, pretty vile but apparently the right thing to do!
    I'm posting the extended judges version here although both say pretty much the same thing, here goes - gods will:

    22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”

    23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.”

    25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight.

    27 When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. 28 He said to her, “Get up; let’s go.” But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.

    29 When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel. 30 Everyone who saw it was saying to one another, “Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Just imagine! We must do something! So speak up!”
     
  3. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    I believe that the bible was written by human beings. history is written, and re-written by the victors. So, everything in there should be taken with a grain of salt. There are apparently alot of extremely good teachings in bible, but also some very bad ones.

    Newage people of beliefe dont follow books blindly, they read them and take the best parts, and rationally break apart the irrational old age dominating sexist parts.

    Usually threads like this end pretty badly. I mean.. your basically asking someone to justify logical crap :S. How exactly do you expect that one to end :yay:
     
  4. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    Numbers 31:7-18 (King James Version)

    In this Moses after a battle says to his commanders

    Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

    18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
     
  5. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    Come on man...
     
  6. In Limbo

    In Limbo Forum Buddy

    As I've said before, I am what some may call a Christian, although if I were living in a Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Sikh environment I may just as easily find that religion. The point is that I believe in God, and the central tenets of the Bible, but as Blake rightly says, you have to realise it was written by humans and thus takes much of the social and cultural values and views of the time.

    If the Bible were written today, homosexuality would likely not be said to be a sin, and the gender values would be entirely different. Those are just two examples that immediately spring to mind. There are many others as well. God is a form of conscience as I wrote elsewhere, whether you take that to mean God is internal or a separate entity is up to you.
     
  7. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    My reasoning for this is that religion affects every one of us in some way or another, even if you are an atheist/agnostic.
    I have often had the bible rammed down my throat, told that it is the book we must follow to live pure lives. This is especially true in america nowadays where people walk around with signs saying "fags are evil, kill fags."
    It affects childrens education and has even led to people bombing abortion clinics. All modern day effects of religion. My main gripe is the the church has not retracted the statements, thereby it is to be assumed that they still condone such behaviours.
     
  8. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    Yeah.. those are what I call sheep. People who follow and do not think. The same could be construded from old society values, or orangizations of past, oreven on the flip side societies who create future strucutres.

    People who believe in the book(s) word for word don't think, they follow the concepts and just believe them to be true. You're tackeling issues of where people feel connected and of belonging, regardless of the rational. .. though in their case the books concepts are rational, regardless if they say the sky is green.
     
  9. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

    This.

    Context is important in regards to any book. I think the main thing that anyone should follow is what Jesus said, instead of nitpicking the old testament I think most are better served by understanding the main principles he taught.

    I understand how you can get angry by people coming in and preaching. I also understand if you want to show them how wrong they are by quoting some random passages to show how savage christianity really is, but I think it is better to take the high road in these cases and just ignore them.
     
  10. Chargette

    Chargette Well-Known Member

    Your questions are 100% valid. The Bible is complex. It has covenants, laws, history of how people lived and behaved. When a bad behavior is listed, sometimes it is the behavior of a "just" person and sometimes that of an "unjust" person. The Bible is honest about a persons behavior and does not white wash it.

    I am willing to begin to address these questions but I ask you to bear in mind that I have ADD and depression with the holidays upon us.

    The laws of purification for different sins that the Jews lived under were extensive. The Jews themselves viewed them as a curse because it was difficult to keep them. I will have to do some research as to the reasons for the ones you mentioned because part of my ADD is a working memory disability.

    The law showed that mankind could not keep the law, even if he wanted to and tried to. Successive generations followed the laws even less. There were times when God intervened and the population would suffer enslavement by another nation. Later, God would bring them back to Jerusalem, the people would follow the laws again for awhile.

    Jesus came to fulfill the law because the people would sin and animal sacrifice would be made and became an empty ritual. Jesus death on the cross was the last sacrifice. This is why it is said that he died for the worlds sins. Jesus said at Matthew 9:13 (KJV), "But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

    For Christians, it is belief in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ (which is the gospel) that defines their relationship with God.

    I began an earnest study of the Bible because I get mad when people tell me one part means one thing and another person tells me the same part means something else and they say it angrily while pointing a finger at me. To me that is not right.

    It tells me they don't seek the patience of teaching that Jesus showed. It also tells me they probably don't really know the Bible and are trying to cover that over. Another possibility is they rely on what their church pastor says. This kind of problem also shows differences in doctrine (teaching) of different people groups.

    I could go in a million directions talking about the Bible but I won't. I will start answering your questions a little at a time. Please bear with me as it will take place over time.
     
  11. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    Why would God set laws we could not follow? Why would God set any laws? He is omnipotent and omniscient, he gains nothing from making us labour for him. He threatens us with hell if we don't perform arbitrary tasks that do nothing for him.
     
  12. Crue-K

    Crue-K Well-Known Member

    It's incredible that in this day and age that people still believe in a book of bullshit contradictions. There is no God, only brainwashed simpletons who can't make decisions in life for themselves.
     
  13. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

    Wow, thank you so much!

    Ironically I find the majority of those that make statements like these have actually done very little study at all into christianity or any other religion to warrant them pointing their finger. That's cool though, clearly since you are miserable on a suicide forum you feel the need to belittle the ninety five percent of the world world that does believe in something bigger then there own ego.
     
  14. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    Eh, there's some degree of that for sure I'd agree, but I have to point out that in the case of Christianity it's pretty simple to strike it off the list of credible religions. See here.

    Really though what I want to ask you a few things:

    1. What are the Gods of the Buddhists?
    2. Which religion is Lao Tzu associated with? Which book?
    3. Who founded the Bahá'í Faith?
    4. What are the Gods of the Wiccans?

    I doubt you can answer all four without cheating, and if that's the case then clearly you need to do more research on the other faiths before thinking every non-christian is wrong. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

    lulwut?
     
  16. morning rush

    morning rush Well-Known Member

    I believe in God, but I don't really believe in "the good book" I guess I take what I need and throw the rest out, just like I do with everything...I mean some of the stuff in the bible about how you're supposed to manage cattle is very outdated and should be treated as such...maybe the bible needs a re-write :D, heck some of the laws we have today could use a re-write and major cleaning
     
  17. In Limbo

    In Limbo Forum Buddy

    Ummmm....he never said that...

    For the record Buddhists do not believe in Gods and if memory serves Lao Tzu is associated with Taoism - I don't know the other two.
     
  18. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    You accused someone else of having not studied Christianity and disregarded him for that, so I'm pointing out there's a good chance you haven't studied every last belief system out there - that is you're as ignorant as he, just in different subjects.

    \

    Christianity asserts itself as the correct religion over all others, being a Christian forces one to assume themselves to be the only ones that are right.

    Gods are optional (The Buddha took on the Hindu gods), but I'd still give you the point on that for not thinking the Buddha to be a god.

    Yes to Taoism (and the Tao Te Ching) but the point here was really that Mike berated Crue-K for not knowing of Christianity when Mike doesn't know a lot about all sorts of other belief systems - he's no better in any way on those grounds. There's nothing wrong with not knowing, there's a lot wrong with taking the moral high ground for bullshit reasons.

    In bold you'll find him attacking Crue-K for not knowing of Christianity when Crue was giving a general attack on the faiths around today, an area in which Mike is equally ignorant, and also blatant 'high horsing'.
     
  19. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

    Yes so if you actually the read unbolded part of my statement you will see I said the MAJORITY. And yes I am attacking Crue-K for saying I am a "brainwashed simpleton who can't make decisions in life" but clearly im on the fucking high horse here.

    I am ignorant on other faiths which is why I try to be respectful of others beliefs, but since you completely misread my statement it is a moot point. When I said "any other religion to warrant them pointing their finger" I meant all the other faiths you see bashed constantly such as islam and the like.

    Did you completely miss the part where he degraded a large portion of people on here? Or since his he clearly has as much anger against christianity as you, you decided to back his statement instead?
     
  20. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    Christianity, as well as many religions, are inherently high horsed ideals. "I have the ultimate truth and I'm going to get rewarded for my belief and all you others are going to be punished by my God for not believing in my God."

    If you praise a God that hates me, I don't really care if you aren't directly causing me problems because I still find you morally reprehensible for supporting a God that you believe will send me (and most people) to hell for eternal punishment.

    Most criticisms of faith can be fairly easily modified to other faiths, and general arguments can be made from them. People that say Islam supports a pedophilic prophet could easily adapt it to saying Christianity supports slavery and misogyny.

    My disdain for Christianity is equal to my disdain for any unproven claim someone follows regardless of the non-existent evidence.

    I don't have any issue with calling the majority of persons idiots. We're all idiots at times, and at any given point in time most people are being idiots.
     
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