The meaning of our suffering????

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Marty482, Jun 30, 2010.

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  1. Marty482

    Marty482 Well-Known Member

    I just thought of something tonight that I wanted to share with everyone here. I urge all of us to really think about this please.

    Many of us tend to see ourselves and our lives in negative ways such as"useless, without value etc". We can't see any meaning in our lives and pain. But I TOTALLY disagree.

    What if we and our lives are supremely valuable and meaningful BECAUSE we have suffered so much? What if that is true? I believe it is....


    Our pain has taught us what it is like to truly suffer and that puts us in the unique postion to know how others feel that have truly suffered. Therefore, we may be in a position to help and save people like ourselves more than anyone else could be.What if your pain exists to make you someone that is able to save others? Others that no one else could, BECAUSE you have suffered so much. Wouldn't that make the suffering you have endured meaningful?

    Wouldn't that make you a supremely valuable person? You have a PHD in sadness and suffering and despair that can be used to save people. Could that be some of the meaning of your journey?

    You understand and have felt what few others can and sometimes that understanding allows you to be a healer and helper in a extraordinary way. Think of that. How much more useful and valuable and meaningful can a person be?

    I'm sure all of us have helped people here and maybe you ,because of your unique expereinces, were the one that saved them. How important is that? I wonder if there is anything more important? I don't think there is. So, FAR from being useless or without value,I submit we are of extraordinary value! SUPREME VALUE!!!!

    The pain and suffering is not meaningless because it has taught us
    things that can't be learned in books or classes. Things that can save people that may not be able to be saved otherwise
    .That, to me,makes you one of the most valuable and important people in the world!!!! Looked at from this perspective our lives seem to be filled with meaning and value.I don't think you can deny this! What seems like a curse may in fact be a rare and powerful gift that is waiting to be used. Is being used. The power to heal and help those people no one else can,because of what you have endured and the understanding that only you possess!!!! Maybe without the suffering you couldn't do this for others, so it was necessary to make you a helper and healer. Who else but you could help or understand those who are now where you are or have been????

    Marty
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2010
  2. sickjk

    sickjk Member

    (this may make no sense)

    Hi,
    I wanted to reply to this yesterday when i saw it but couldn't put anything together.
    I think it's a very healthy way of looking at things. To me if utilised this expereince of suffering could certainly be as valuable as anything else in this world.
    But this illness isolates many of us. It seems to be a bit of a bare meaning if it's just reduced to helping people over the internet, (imo). At least you can't do it too much of the time to be healthy.
     
  3. Surely Not

    Surely Not Well-Known Member

    I've thought about this before.

    Wouldn't it just be a cycle?

    You're depressed so that you could help me (or someone like me). I'm depressed so that later on I could help someone else so that they could help another person and so on.

    Why is there depression at all then? There isn't any reason for our pain if the only reason is to help others with theirs.

    I'm not sure if that makes sense, but that's how I feel about it.
     
  4. Mortal Moon

    Mortal Moon Well-Known Member

    So suffering is valuable only insofar as it enables us to relieve the suffering of others; I pretty much agree. But then wouldn't it be better if we hadn't come into existence, so that no one had to suffer in the first place? And since we have, in fact, come into existence, and are capable of suffering, by that logic wouldn't the optimal solution be to return whence we came, to non-sentience, as soon as possible?
     
  5. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    So basically what you're saying is the old saying, "what won't kill you makes you stronger," right? The fact of the matter is that, sometimes, it does kill you by making you weaker. It's not necessarily suffering that makes you wiser, but experience in general does. So I disagree with you.
     
  6. IV2010

    IV2010 Well-Known Member

    Marty I thought that was an excellent post....
    I agree with you in that all the experience we've had is a valuable learning tool.....doesn't help the fact that we've suffered it but it can help others because of our knowledge....
    my councelor is setting up a suicide survivor support group because of my constant nagging for one..
    I will hopefully be able to help others there in RL ....
    so some good may come from all this pain.....
    we've just got to find it...:unsure:
     
  7. Marty482

    Marty482 Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't it just be a cycle?

    You're depressed so that you could help me (or someone like me). I'm depressed so that later on I could help someone else so that they could help another person and so on.


    Why is there depression at all then? There isn't any reason for our pain if the only reason is to help others with theirs. It isn't the ONLY reason,but I still think it is an important one. I stated in the post the question that maybe it could be some of the meaning. I realize I wasn't as clear as I should have been though.

    I should have added that suffering is also an opportunity for spiritual growth .

    It is a cycle of sorts.But suffering can afford spiritual growth (Joy can too I'm sure).I see suffering as an opportunity for growth. I think we are here to grow spiritually and help others. Those two things go hand in hand. One part of that process is that you are able to help others through your own suffering. Suffering affords the opportunity to develop compassion. Compassion marks our spiritual development. Compassion can help and heal others. So suffering can have value as a tool for spiritual growth and as a healing tool to help others on their path. I hope that makes my position clearer. I should have emphasized equally the idea of spiritual growth. Sorry abou that. So, to state my case completely, suffering can help us grow spiritually and be of help to others and that has a great deal of meaning to me.
    Marty
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2010
  8. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    I agree and to tell you the truth you hit it right on the head! This is one of the many reasons why we suffer as human beings. Good for you! Blessings..
     
  9. Surely Not

    Surely Not Well-Known Member

    No, don't worry, I understood that. You were perfectly clear.

    Depression shapes who we are, for better or for worse. But to be honest, I don't know if it's always going to become spiritual growth; I think it can also lead to decay if you never manage to make it through. And I know from experience that there are people who never manage to conquer their depression.
     
  10. Marty482

    Marty482 Well-Known Member

    But then wouldn't it be better if we hadn't come into existence, so that no one had to suffer in the first place? And since we have, in fact, come into existence, and are capable of suffering, by that logic wouldn't the optimal solution be to return whence we came, to non-sentience, as soon as possible?

    If suffering were meaningless I would agree with you. But my point is that it isn't. I think it may be a necessary part of spiritual growth. A valuable thing. What if suffering and being here are part of a process? If we substitute "suffering" with "opportunity for growth"maybe that makes more sense.Suffering can be an opportunity to raise your consciousness and develop compassion. Those are vital things. Maybe we could not do those things without being here in this world. We might need the experience of these things to truly be able to move on to higher realms. So the suffering(and joy) we feel here may be a necessary stage in the growth process for us as souls. If we went back to non-sentience without these experiences and the compassion they can bring we may have missed something we needed to develop here. Maybe we will have to come back again till we learn. I don't think we can avoid the lessons we have to learn here.I see life as a process that leads to greater and greater spiritual growth.If the world didn't have meaning I don't think it would ever have come into being at all. It's meaning for me is spiritual evolution that culminates in joy!!!!A place for souls to grow through happiness and suffering that leads to an ultimate joy. I don't see the world as a flaw or mistake,but a necessary experience for us all. It is one of the places we learn. We may go back to insentience,but we go back with expereinces, those experiences may be necessary for that return. The great cycle of "Separation,Initiation and Return". We return,but on a higher level than when we left. That makes the inevitable suffering ( and joy) of life meaningful to me.. What if suffering is a part of a growth process that leads to joy? Isn't it worth it then?. What if life isn't really about suffering,but joy and we sometimes have to go through a process to realize this? To understand what joy truly is. I think we may learn all we need some day and not have to come back here. But even then there are those who may choose to stay here for the benefit of others and maybe that is the joy of life. Giving for the benefit of others. So life in this world, to me, is an important and necessary place for our ultimate evolution as souls.


    Marty
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2010
  11. Things

    Things Well-Known Member

    That's a good way of looking at things. There's also the fact that suffering is a good motivator, for lack of a better term. If we were always content, we'd never try to improve or change things. Depression is also a good muse for the artistic. Imagine what music, paintings, or literature would be missing if it did not exist.
     
  12. Mortal Moon

    Mortal Moon Well-Known Member

    That's all well and good, if you believe in that sort of thing. Seems like pretty cruel and unnecessary way to set things up, though.
     
  13. Dave_N

    Dave_N Banned Member

    Hi Marty. You raise some interesting points about how one can use their depression and the knowledge gained during suffering in a positive way, to help others who are going through the same process of suffering. I think that this is an excellent point, because people who have gone through depression (or are in the process of overcoming depression) have experiences that your average person whouldn't have.

    I also agree with your idea that suffering is a part of spiritual growth as a human being. Suffering is a part of life, whether we like it or not. We are here to have experiences, both positive and negative and we are supposed to grow and learn from these experiences. You raise the idea of reincarnation, which I also believe in and I also think that if you fail to experience things in this life, you will be reborn and have to face the same experiences.

    You also raise the idea of God-realization and becoming perfected human beings. I also believe that the ultimate goal of human existence is to become a perfected being, like Jesus is believed to have been. Jesus went through an enormous amount of pain and suffering and he is remembered for his sacrifice. Therefore, suffering cannot be meaningless.
     
  14. cult logic

    cult logic Staff Alumni

    In my opinion, there is no meaning to suffering.

    It really doesn't need one either, it's just human nature to rationalize and try to make sense of things that don't.

    The world is a chaotic, unfair, and unpredictable place. This is just unacceptable to the human mind in general, so we come up with this and that to explain the chaos and help ourselves sleep a little better at night.

    I could spend a lot of time thinking about why people suffer, are happy, etc.

    But it seems to me that there is no real reason other than the randomness of the world and I've accepted that and moved on.
     
  15. Marty482

    Marty482 Well-Known Member

    You say the universe is random and chaotic and that the human mind seeks order and meaning to cope. But the human mind is a part of the universe. therefore based on what you said,at least in part, the universe seeks order and meaning. If a part of the universes seeks those things then don't you think it's possible that they are there?
     
  16. Young suicider

    Young suicider Well-Known Member

    Depression has taught me to put other people before me and to make them happy so they don't have to to through what I'm going through.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2010
  17. Marty482

    Marty482 Well-Known Member

    Depression has taught me to put other people before né and to make them happy so they don't have to to through what I'm going through.

    That is beautiful!!!!
     
  18. Raphael1

    Raphael1 Well-Known Member

    suffering has taught me that freedom is precious.
     
  19. Marty482

    Marty482 Well-Known Member

    That is so true. We all need to remember that.
     
  20. cult logic

    cult logic Staff Alumni

    That is giving the human mind more significance than I feel it has.

    Also it would seem if suffering had any meaning then we should not be doing anything to try and stop it because there would be a point to it and stopping it would fuck that point up.

    Not to mention if to "save" others is the point of US suffering, the ones that we save won't suffer and they can't save the next generation of sufferers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2010
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