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Ideas & Opinions The Pleasure of Cruelty

Dark111

The Hated One
SF Supporter
#1
There are a few dimensions to cruelty but I'll just ask about one of them here. This is not about being cruel for cruel's sake. I think it's probably the more universal, or at least understandable, aspect of the human capacity for cruelty: revenge for betrayal.

We've often heard it said that seeking revenge is never the solution, as two wrongs don't make a right; that whatever injury you suffered will never be undone by indulging in retaliation; that no matter how justified you are in wanting to return the malice for the malice that was was inflicted upon you, your wrath can only serve to make things worse; and that old proverb: “Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.”

But then there is this:

"For those regarded as warriors, when engaged in combat the vanquishing of thine enemy can be the warrior's only concern. Suppress all human emotion and compassion. Kill whoever stands in thy way, even if that be Lord God, or Buddha himself. This truth lies at the heart of the art of combat." ~ Hattori Hanzo.

I have sought revenge at times in my life on those who have betrayed me. Nothing murderous of course, no broken bones or lost limbs. Sometimes it amounted to little more than just being recalcitrant . But upon success I would always rejoice. And nothing so trivial as a momentary gloat, nothing so petty. It would instead be a lasting euphoria. Like being born. It was suddenly being relevant. Like drapes suddenly pulled open to let in an abundance of sunshine. Imagine the look of surprise on a person's face when they distractedly think they're swatting a fly away from their face & suddenly realize it's actually a hornet. Fully visible. You suddenly exist.

In my experience, sometimes you rescue yourself from your own resentment not by appealing to a person's capacity for kindness but by triggering their utter distaste for pain. Yes, yes, cooler & more forgiving heads should prevail but I speak as one who is deeply flawed.

Feedback welcome.
 

Sunspots

Pffffeckn amazin
Safety & Support
SF Supporter
#2
I really struggle with revenge. I think about it a lot, I even dream about it but more often than not I'll reluctantly lick my wounds in private and bite my tongue.

The only time I've really gone for deliberate revenge (over something so big I'll probably never totally get over it) it felt so good at the time but ultimately it left me feeling guilty for sinking to his level.

But that's just me.
 

Dark111

The Hated One
SF Supporter
#3
I really struggle with revenge. I think about it a lot, I even dream about it but more often than not I'll reluctantly lick my wounds in private and bite my tongue.

The only time I've really gone for deliberate revenge (over something so big I'll probably never totally get over it) it felt so good at the time but ultimately it left me feeling guilty for sinking to his level.

But that's just me.
That's where we differ. I have no regrets. In fact, I treasure those victories even though maybe I'm not supposed to. I won't press you for details of your own experience but I often wonder what people mean by 'sinking' to the aggressors level. That doesn't really make sense to me but that may be something lacking on my part.
 
#4
"For those regarded as warriors, when engaged in combat the vanquishing of thine enemy can be the warrior's only concern. Suppress all human emotion and compassion. Kill whoever stands in thy way, even if that be Lord God, or Buddha himself. This truth lies at the heart of the art of combat." ~ Hattori Hanzo.
I guess this might make one more effective as a warrior, but it's not necessarily a wise way of living.

I think it's better to wish for good things for one's self, or for the world in general, than to wish for revenge. Bad stuff happens to pretty much everyone eventually, so if revenge only increases the misery of the world, there's really no need for it.
 

Dark111

The Hated One
SF Supporter
#6
I guess this might make one more effective as a warrior, but it's not necessarily a wise way of living.

I think it's better to wish for good things for one's self, or for the world in general, than to wish for revenge. Bad stuff happens to pretty much everyone eventually, so if revenge only increases the misery of the world, there's really no need for it.
I claim to be neither wise nor a warrior. But you can't deny revenge is a human instinct and to me it's interesting how we experience, process and/or choose to act upon it. I have shared my own thoughts here but if you believe it is not a worthy topic for further exploration, go ahead and have the thread closed.
 

Dark111

The Hated One
SF Supporter
#7
I don't think it's anything lacking, just that everyone's different.
For me, what he did to me hurt so much so when I did it too to get him back I felt it had made me as bad as him. I don't want to be the kind of person who does that, whether he deserves it or not.
You feel the way people are supposed to feel. And it's beyond me. Thanks for sharing, sunspots.
 

Auri

🎸🎼Rock Star🎼🎸
Safety & Support
SF Supporter
#8
It doesn't mean something is a human instinct that it's worth acting on it. Humans evolved to learn, from education, from experience, in order to prosper within a society. Not saying they have it all figured out, far from it, but I personally find the instinct for revenge not beneficial for anyone, especially for the person seeking it. I'd rather replace those negative thoughts with some positive ones if I have them.

That being said, it's not a judgment on my part about how you feel, you're perfectly allowed to feel the way you do about revenge and forgiveness. I know you're not alone feeling that way. :)
 

Dark111

The Hated One
SF Supporter
#9
It doesn't mean something is a human instinct that it's worth acting on it. Humans evolved to learn, from education, from experience, in order to prosper within a society. Not saying they have it all figured out, far from it, but I personally find the instinct for revenge not beneficial for anyone, especially for the person seeking it. I'd rather replace those negative thoughts with some positive ones if I have them.

That being said, it's not a judgment on my part about how you feel, you're perfectly allowed to feel the way you do about revenge and forgiveness. I know you're not alone feeling that way. :)
Where did I say that just because something is a human instinct we should act on it? Are we people here or characters in a fairy tale where the wicked witch is banished and we all live happily ever after? Forget it, just close the damn thread.
 

Inanimate

Well-Known Member
#10
Due to past injustices that went unchallenged and occurred as early as childhood, my conscious mind has been gripped by rage, fear, and torment.

If those cowards didn’t presume me to be harmless, and rightfully so, then they would have never done the deed, much less persist in ridiculing and humiliating me.

This ideology of turning the other cheek is a recipe for self-deception. I’d much prefer a broken nose over a battered ego. Likewise, I’d rather hurt those who deserve it than misplace my wrath on loved ones.
 

Auri

🎸🎼Rock Star🎼🎸
Safety & Support
SF Supporter
#13
Where did I say that just because something is a human instinct we should act on it? Are we people here or characters in a fairy tale where the wicked witch is banished and we all live happily ever after? Forget it, just close the damn thread.
No need to close the "damn" thread, nor to get so upset if I had simply misunderstood you. Yeah, you said not to deny that it is an instinct and that you found it interesting. Fine, perhaps I commented on that even though it's not exactly what you meant, but I was respectful, as well as other people here who meant no harm but to give their different perspectives on the topic, as your original post suggested we do.

I suggest you chill out, and/or reread our posts.
 

Dark111

The Hated One
SF Supporter
#14
Due to past injustices that went unchallenged and occurred as early as childhood, my conscious mind has been gripped by rage, fear, and torment.

If those cowards didn’t presume me to be harmless, and rightfully so, then they would have never done the deed, much less persist in ridiculing and humiliating me.

This ideology of turning the other cheek is a recipe for self-deception. I’d much prefer a broken nose over a battered ego. Likewise, I’d rather hurt those who deserve it than misplace my wrath on loved ones.
That I can relate to. Having some fire running through our veins is not always a bad thing. And it's not that I'm advocating anything destructive, I'm just asking is punching back at the bully such a bad thing?
 

Dark111

The Hated One
SF Supporter
#15
Interesting topic. Sometimes it's hard for me to distinguish the line between justice, revenge, and standing up for yourself. But I think when it comes to the point when your vengeance hurts you and continuously hurts others not involved, then it's revenge. To me, revenge is not gratifying. Justice is though.
That is pretty much the question I was trying to ask, you've articulated exactly what I was aiming for. But why would your vengeance have to hurt you or people outside the one who deserves it? If executed correctly, it shouldn't.
 

the.end.ish

Misknown Member
#16
That is pretty much the question I was trying to ask, you've articulated exactly what I was aiming for. But why would your vengeance have to hurt you or people outside the one who deserves it? If executed correctly, it shouldn't.
Vengeance can hurt others, for example... if you are so focused on vengeance you neglect your loved ones, or you use someone else to hurt another. If the vengeance perpetuates, as in you and the offender keeps throwing jabs until its petty and pointless and you don't even know what you're fighting for anymore. Or until it isolates everyone around you.

I think its very easy to swerve into this territory when speaking of vengeance and there isn't any necessarily a correct way of vengeance.. when executing it. Because people be messy.
 

KM76710

KM stands for Kangaroo Manager
SF Supporter
#17
The one time within the past 20 years, I admit I was satisfied with revenge though shortly after I regretted it and still do since it really destroyed a person's career in what in the city I work in is a small city(100,000) so things get around and still do. That was back when I worked at a company that no longer exists and involved cracking a Windows login and then an e-mail login and sending some things using his e-mail involving...well best not getting into that in any detail but yes, sex was the subject and it went out to all the company addresses as well as all his business contacts which him being in marketing was extensive. Not so much a nuking of him as more of a sulfur mustard type of attack that follows around a person. I have little regret about him then or now but him and his wife shared custody of a young daughter perhaps 6 or so and everything that went against him affected her. It is something I would never think of doing now because innocents were affected. One of the reasons I trained myself to learn to control my temper.
 

Dark111

The Hated One
SF Supporter
#18
Vengeance can hurt others, for example... if you are so focused on vengeance you neglect your loved ones, or you use someone else to hurt another. If the vengeance perpetuates, as in you and the offender keeps throwing jabs until its petty and pointless and you don't even know what you're fighting for anymore. Or until it isolates everyone around you.

I think its very easy to swerve into this territory when speaking of vengeance and there isn't any necessarily a correct way of vengeance.. when executing it. Because people be messy.
Agreed, people are indeed messy. I've just never had to involve anyone else other than the person who made the mistake of crossing me. Maybe that's because they were somewhat loners or were not part of any wider network we all belonged to so I could just single them out and hit a bulls eye.
 

Dark111

The Hated One
SF Supporter
#19
The one time within the past 20 years, I admit I was satisfied with revenge though shortly after I regretted it and still do since it really destroyed a person's career in what in the city I work in is a small city(100,000) so things get around and still do. That was back when I worked at a company that no longer exists and involved cracking a Windows login and then an e-mail login and sending some things using his e-mail involving...well best not getting into that in any detail but yes, sex was the subject and it went out to all the company addresses as well as all his business contacts which him being in marketing was extensive. Not so much a nuking of him as more of a sulfur mustard type of attack that follows around a person. I have little regret about him then or now but him and his wife shared custody of a young daughter perhaps 6 or so and everything that went against him affected her. It is something I would never think of doing now because innocents were affected. One of the reasons I trained myself to learn to control my temper.
Good for you, but I do enjoy (white hat) hacking myself. Still, was it up to you to think of this persons family or what is it up to him before he decided to f**k with you? It's ultimately the original perpetrators actions that have the consequences as far I'm concerned.
 

the.end.ish

Misknown Member
#20
Agreed, people are indeed messy. I've just never had to involve anyone else other than the person who made the mistake of crossing me. Maybe that's because they were somewhat loners or were not part of any wider network we all belonged to so I could just single them out and hit a bulls eye.
The way you speak about it is very predatory as opposed to defensive. Can you share in what ways you've exacted revenge?
 

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