The psychopath

Discussion in 'Mental Health Disorders' started by Mephorash, May 21, 2008.

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  1. Mephorash

    Mephorash Member

    For an extended period of time – I have been defective a propos my theory on psychopaths. My expertise lay elsewhere – and it is merely of personal interest that I took this upon me. However – I believe I have achieved the intended result [Proving that psychopaths really are much greater than the /norm/].

    The purpose of this thread: The purpose is clear: To find flaws in my theory, for my part: I will propose a minimum amount of theory (which should be enough to instigate contradiction) I beg of you: Please be analytical and not emotional as this is fundamental. I will take every argument as an entity (which will result in philosophical subdivisions).

    Why this forum: This forum deals with emotional issues – The psychopath by definition is defined as someone who lacks the ability to feel emotions. (Not by birth, psychopathic behavior is developed).

    Let me first discuss the disorder: Many people view psychopaths as serial killers, and many are – but the graph – Psychopaths that commit violent acts vs. Psychopaths that don’t commit violent acts shows clearly that the latter out numbers the former a thousand to one.

    Why is it a disorder: Because it is not shared by the majority.

    So I view the /disorder/ as: The lack of emotions.

    Now the real question becomes: Is this bad?
    Actually, the term /bad/ is a very religious term and I will refrain from using it. We aren’t born with knowledge (Knowledge is information, information needs definitions, definitions need samples, samples need sensors – and sensors are not mentally active until after we are born (except for the ear, but it is not connected to the mind till after birth)).

    With no information from birth; it is impossible to judge anything – killing and so forth. That will make stupid arguments like: We have a right to life (which is made up by humans, and contradicted by suicide) superfluous. A better approach might be: Killing causes unknown result for the future if such a thing can be comprehended (the future – purpose of religion).

    Emotions really are unstable, they are random, sporadic – and because of this, time is wasted; time is not merciful and your value surely is degrading by time. However; Emotions really have great uses too; For example, it is a great motivator.

    Here is what should happen: People should first set logical basis and then emotional stimulation. Here is what is happening: People are setting emotional basis, and logical stimulation. For this: their basis is sporadic, and can be broken. (As per tendency)

    The psychopath, at his current state (may not have formerly suffered from this /disorder/) Will always set logical basis first, because that is the only thing he/she can set. For that: they are more sufficient, better thinkers, stronger and waste less time on emotional issues. For my part: I really feel this person is superior.

    It is clear to me the logical way is better.

    Better by definition is striving by instincts(nothing that knowledge provided us with).
  2. Mortem

    Mortem Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I'm willing to agree. At the same time I think an emotional being might function better socially. But maybe that's because the majority is non-psychopaths. If divided in 2 groups, I reckon the group of psychopaths would possibly function better than the group of "normal" people.
  3. Mephorash

    Mephorash Member

    The analytical way is always better, the psychopath has no need for emotional stimulation, he is active always, and calculating. :)

    Let me have men about me that are fat;
    Sleek-headed men and such as sleep o' nights:
    Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look;
    He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.

    “I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few”. Adolf Hitler

    You will find that men of greatness in history, usually were psychopaths.
  4. XXXXX

    XXXXX Antiquities Friend

    But emotions do have a purpose when binding family together - the group being stronger than the individual, it being in the interest of the individual to be part of the group.

    I recall reading (somewhere??) that Physcopaths prosper well only in groups where they are a minority - due to their tendency to act in more short term self interest. Dunno whether that was a report in a Tabloid or something more serious :tongue:

    Never been a big one on labels for others or myself. Nor having anything to do with head shrinks - but I will fess up to struggling with the "right" and "wrong" stuff (by that I mean coming up with the appropriate response / reaction)....but quite useful when well abroad in understanding that different "right" and "wrong" rules apply and working with them.
  5. Mortem

    Mortem Well-Known Member

    So, the definition of a psychopath is a person who lacks the ability to feel emotions.
    I wonder; is it possible that there are degrees of "psychopathism"?
    Like Hitler for example... there are stories about his rage bursts, anger would be an emotion there, or do the psychopath only fake emotions?

    I'd like to think that my first (and last) boss was some sort of a "low degree psychopath". It's hard to put the finger on what that makes me think he is. It could be the EXTREME rage bursts he had when things didn't go his way. The way he could cause others trouble for the slightest personal gain, albeit only those who he didn't benefit from, and be seemingly indifferent or even laugh. He was much more careful with those he "needed". At the same time he must've had plenty of emotions, he was the father of two and I guess he loved his wife. He was very kind, generous and happy when I did a good job - but maybe that was some sort of rewarding-tactics, if you see what I mean?

    Then there's those who have empathy disorders and anhedonia, could those be on their way to become psychopaths? Or are they beyond that point?

    Could it be that a psychopath have some emotions, but not quite as many as a normal person?
  6. ggg456

    ggg456 Guest

    You say the psychopath will always set the 'logical basis first', then you say this is 'striving by instincts' which is an antithesis of logic. If something is instinctive- and 'nothing that knowledge provided with us' surely that would be rooted in something emotional?
  7. GoldenPsych

    GoldenPsych Well-Known Member

    Ok - I am doing s psychology degree and we did quite a bit of work on Psychopaths and Anti social personality disorder when we looked at sex offenders - here is some info from the lectur we did -

    ASPD and Psychopathy have similar features and traits including callousness and a disregard for societal norms.
    The aetiology, manifestation, and diagnostic criteria are different.
    For example, 90% of psychopaths meet criteria for a diagnosis of ASPD but only 30% of individuals diagnosed with ASPD meet criteria for psychopathy (Viding, 2004).
    20-30% of prison population psychopathic, 80% ASPD.
    Conduct disorder vs. Emotional disorder
    Capacity for attachment.

    Psychopathy has never been in the DSM and it differs from Psychopathy. Many people criticize the construct of ASPD and its inclusion in the DSM. Since the placement in the DSM much confusion has resulted between the difference between the two diagnoses. Sociopathy is another term often used to describe someone who has been influenced by society to commit amoral and illegal acts in a callous manner. However, this is not a clinical term and there is not agreed upon criteria for sociopathy.

    Not psychopathology which is term meaning mental illness

    Psycho pathic traits -
    Glibness and superficial
    Grandiose Sense of
    Pathological Lying
    Lack of Remorse or Guilt
    Shallow Affect
    Callous/Lack of Empathy
    Failure to Accept
    Responsibility for Own Actions
    Scores on factor 1 are stable with age and not related to socio-economic status or level of intelligence.

    Need for Stimulation/Proneness to Boredom
    Parasitic Lifestyle
    Lack of Realistic, Long-Term Goals
    Poor Behavioral Controls
    Early Behavioral Problems
    Juvenile Delinquency
    Revocation of conditional
    Criminal Versatility
    Scores on Factor 2 are inversely related to SES. Nonviolent crimes decline with age (35-40).

    Additional items: promiscuous sexual behavior and many short term marital relationships

    Co-morbidity: antisocial, narcissistic, histrionic, and borderline personality disorders and substance abuse related disorders.

    Prevalency in males 1%.

    Severe pathological form of narcissistic personality disorder with added aggressive features.

    Biological (emotional) and environmental (behavioural) aetiology.

    Children who have been diagnosed with ADHD and Conduct
    Disorder are at greater risk for developing ASPD and psychopathy.

    Psychopaths differ from
    nonpsychopaths in their
    processing of emotional
    meaning of language,
    events, and experiences.
    These functions are part of
    the limbic system.

    Psychopaths have difficulties processing the fearfulness and sadness of others.
    Limbic system includes amygdala, cingulate gyrus and prefrontal cortex.

    Many recent studies have been done examining neurological functioning of psychopaths. However, the majority of studies
    do not differentiate Psychopaths from nonpsychopaths with ASPD and individuals who are not psychopaths nor have ASPD. Therefore, it is difficult to say at this point if individuals who are not psychopaths but who have been diagnosed with ASPD have the same affective and cognitive defects as psychopaths.

    Initial studies have found that the Limbic Systems of psychopaths function differently than nonpsychopaths limbic system is responsible for processing

    Psychopaths do not relate to the emotional components of language as nonpsychopaths do which may make it easier for them to lie.

    They don’t understand the feelings of others so they don’t feel remorse for harming others and can easily rationalize violence and deception as acceptable behavior.

    And there is female P's

    Several recent studies have found that the PCL-R is a valid instrument for assessing psychopathy in females
    The scores of females who are psychopath are generally a few points lower than for males.
    Predictive power of the PCL-R for recidivism and violent behavior is similar to its use with males.
    Sexual promiscuity and numerous marital
    relationships are more prominent
    in females psychopaths.
    Impulsivity, excitement seeking, and early
    antisocial behavior is more prevalent in males.
    No information on prevalence rates for
    psychopathy in females.

    Personality disorders are not diagnosed until age 18.
    Psychopathic traits can be reliably assessed in adolescence.
    PCL:YV used for ages 12-17. High scores are associated with criminal versatility, violent and aggressive behavior, recidivism, and treatment non-compliance.
    APSD for use with children ages 6-13 and completed by a parent and a teacher. High scores associated with oppositional and aggressive behavior, school suspensions, conduct problems, contact with police, fearlessness, and callous and unemotional traits.
    Also a self-report APSD that can be given to adolescence but it has been found not to be as valid as the PCL:YV or APSD for younger children
    Jeffrey Skilling, Enron
    The business world attracts psychopaths because of its fast-paced environment, money, excitement, and the power and authority an executive can wield.
    The current nature of the business world, which includes constant downsizing and merging of business provide an environment in which the psychopath can succeed as they thrive on chaos and risk taking.
    Psychopaths relate to others on the basis of power and dominance rather than affection.
    Psychopaths with lower IQs showed impaired impulse control and were more likely to be violent than psychopaths with average to above average intelligence.
    Environment and inadequate parenting seem to have little impact of psychopaths but is a crucial factor in offenders who are not psychopaths, including those with ASPD.
    Psychopaths are more likely to commit premeditated crimes and are more likely to re-offend.

    Psychopaths may not benefit from mental health treatment. As a result they do not show reduced rates of re-offending but show higher rates of violent recidivism (Rice et al., 1992; Hare et al., 2000).
    Psychopaths housed in prisons and forensic hospitals are three to four more times likely to violently re-offend after their release than are nonpsychopathic individuals.
    Psychopaths do change their behavior as they age. Impulsivity, need for stimulation, and irresponsibility decrease with age.
    Almost half of law enforcement officers who were killed in the line of duty were killed by individuals who fit the characteristics of the psychopath.
    Psychopaths committed violent crimes for material gain while nonpsychopaths were motivated by strong emotional arousal.
    Psychopathic murderers are much more likely to have committed predatory premeditated murder, however nonpsychopaths were more likely to have committed murder.
    Psychopaths were more likely to have been convicted of armed robbery, assault, forcible seizure, committed violent crimes, and property crimes and to be strangers to their victims.
    Psychopaths were more likely to use a gun, fight, and while in prison be involved in aggressive homosexuality.
    Most victims of nonpsychopaths were women and many of the crimes resulted from domestic disputes, whereas the majority of victims of psychopaths were male.

    The above notes are taken from a lecture that i had on it - hope it is understandable and interesting to you!!!!
  8. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    Just out of curiousity, where exactly does your expertise lie/lay?

    A declarative statement isn't proof of anything. I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. As in, demonstrate how you've concluded this, then we'll discuss whether your theory is sensible. Or not.

    Okay, let's start here: How on earth do you know that psychopathic behavior is learned and not innate?

    There's no graph for us to evaluate this claim. Please post a link to it. And how could anyone show psychopaths committing violent acts against psychopaths as opposed to non-psychopaths in the first place? What sort of empirical resarch was done to justify this claim?

    A great many things are not "shared by the majority," from left-handedness to color-blindness to enjoying Jazz, yet I'm unaware of anyone falling into those categories as being considered disordered. So your definition is here is wanting. At a minimum it is incomplete, and in all probability it is wrong, as in being beyond tweaking to something reasonable.

    Meaning the nonexistence of emotions, or a dearth of emotions? Or what?

    I think this is off the table until you offer up a coherent definition of the term you're throwing around, followed by some empirical proof in favor of said definition.

    I disagree. Human beings emerge from the womb hardwired to a remarkable degree. Read some Pinker. I reccomend both How the Mind Works and The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature for further information.

    Why don't you consider touch a "sensor"? Or do you think fetuses lack a sense of touch?

    See above, modern science is rapidly rendering all versions of the tabula rasa theory obsolete. And though it is difficult to if this is actually what you accept, it certainly appears to be close enough for this thread.

    Emotions really are unstable, they are random, sporadic – and because of this, time is wasted; time is not merciful and your value surely is degrading by time. However; Emotions really have great uses too; For example, it is a great motivator.

    This excludes your hypothetical psychopath, the one either without emotion or only rudimentary emotions. (You must provide clarification here.) This last snippet in no way precludes strong emotions, it simply subordinates them to reason.

    I don't disagree, and I look forward to you demonstrating your logic. I see no evidence you have, up to this point.
  9. janie

    janie Well-Known Member

    id go by a dual personality model- half logical basis/emotion stim, half emotional stim/logical stim. i think a purely logical basis/emotional stim life will bore me to death. maybe even multiple personality model...

    this is assuming i understood what youve said lol which i prolly dont
  10. Mephorash

    Mephorash Member

    Instincts can be over-written in abnormal circumstances(irrelevant), as with the psychopath. What I meant was: Tendency:A normal human being from a very young age may accept Christianity(example) as truth because he accepts it emotionally and later on will he/she find logical roots in the religion. Where as a psychopath, won't accept things emotionally but with reason and I find that is very great. First logical basis then emotional stimulation, rather than: First Emotional basis and then logical stimulation. The reason is simple: Emotions cannot calculate truth(except for random luck), emotions are sporadic, mindless, ever changing - where as Logic is not. Psychopaths are not born, they are made. Just as instincts can be over-written a person can over-write the emotional mind(right brain).
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2008
  11. Mephorash

    Mephorash Member

    Mind and Logic.


    I stated why it is considered as a disorder. If everyone was born with 3 legs it won't be a disorder being born with 3legs. The tendency is much more vast than Jazz and it’s not based on preference but rather on the lack of choice.

    I said, the sensors are not connected to the MIND. Till AFTER birth. (Except for the ear) I never said touch is not a sensor.

    Prove it.
    Actually for my part; I think you are referring to the mechanism of mind and not the knowledge it contains.

    Otherwise I propose a test:
    1)Prove how Knowledge enters the mind without sensors.
    2) And if that knowledge is sufficient enough(X).
    2a) There should be static basis in ALL humans.(Or conditions of exceptions welcome).

    I suggest some guidelines:
    Until you can calculate all other probabilities, I suggest you don’t say negative arguments;

    We need an evidence for every positive argument

    We need two evidences for ever negative argument, the first evidence is to prove the opposition, and the second is to prove knowledge of all the exceptions (which is impossible sometimes)

    All information is doubtable, and never will reach 100% assured, and for that, we should deal with probabilities

    To know the probability of some information, you need to gather historical record of cases related to this information, and the following rules seem to be globally observable and accepted as true:

    The following procedure is a brief description of action life cycle:

    Find the Possibility: Is the goal possible, or impossible. Everything is possible until it is proved impossible. So we should need to search for previous knowledge about this goal if available, or it is actually possible. And the possibility/impossibility are information, so they also have probabilities
    Find the HowTo: This completely depends on history. History is the only way to know the future needed to know to be able to draw our path which we will take to reach our goal. And this is also information, and so it also has probability

    Finding the cumulative probability of the path: we already know the basic mathematical rules behind the science of probabilities, and we should use it to calculate the final probability of the path
    The more importance of the decision, the more cost justified in searching for alternative HowTos, and the study of the probability of each HowTo we find

    After initial decision about the best HowTo regarding the cost/probability/goal satisfying, we start the action

    Through the whole path, we should always pay attention to the fact that, this way is probable, and there could be some problems in it, or it could be better to switch to path. And also, we need to pay attention that, new knowledge could be discovered, and the calculation of the probability of the path could affected by the new knowledge.
  12. Mephorash

    Mephorash Member

    Yes, it is possible, be sure- The psychopath does get irritated and so forth, but he/she doesn't share the emotions that go with that.(They may project it though) It doesn't have to be done only when there are people around, psychopaths could be alone and project emotions to practice.

    Be sure, you cannot upset the psychopath. The psychopath projects emotions he learned from humanity(If he was still a child when he became one) [The psychopath knows he is suppose to emotionally grow] on a statistical basis and chooses which emotions to project when(usually from people the same age, depending on his relative view of age vs emotions.) For example: Tomorrow I decided I am going to be irate all day and it could fluctuate depending if the occasion calls for it.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2008
  13. Mephorash

    Mephorash Member

    The language is partially built in - I mean, if they say the mind has preprogrammed for emotions, and natural responses, that means they included part of the language.

    1) Language firstly contains the ability of expression

    If you had read the research of Noam Chomsky, you will know what I mean.
    He says that, the human being is ready to use the spoken language, and already have all the linguistic features to use a spoken one. The speaking part of the language is a part of the principle of Language. Specifically, the human language but don't be confused by these words, the bottom line is that, no information is built inside the human being - It is just the hardware(instincts). As they said, the human mind was created to do specific jobs - And to pick a spoken language is one of them.

    And that is all right, but they already argued that, part of the language principle is ready programmed.
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