The Reality

Discussion in 'Grief and Bereavement' started by mother of child lost, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. I've been reading some of the posts here and my heart is breaking for all of you that are thinking of suicide.

    I lost my daughter to suicide on August 5, 2007. She died by an overdose of pills and alcohol.

    How i wish i could hold her one more time and tell her how much I loved her. She was my first born. I gave birth to her. She was a part of me.

    She didn't have an easy life. She was diagnosed with MS 5 yrs ago. She never went into remission. She gave up.

    I don't think she or any of you realize what happens to the ones left behind. There is so much grief, so much sorrow . So many what if's. Our families lives have changed because of this and not for the better. Losing a part of yourself is never for the better.

    None of the people you know will think it's for the better also if you go through with this.

    I am typing with a mothers pain.

    Please I beg of all of you comtemplating suicide to get some help. Tell someone.

    Suicide is a permanent thing for a temporary problem.
     
  2. tesseract

    tesseract Well-Known Member

    firstly, Sorry for your loss.
    secondly, We know (or atleast have a general idea of) the pain the people who love you feel, when you die. But, if we find no-one who loves us, this problem does not occur. Also, by reminding us about this fact, makes us (or any suicidal) feel guilt. Guilt, is just another pain, and overall, takes us close to suicide..
    Thirdly,
    Okay, so someone with a permanent problem, cant commit suicide? You are not familiar with our problems..
     
  3. nedflanders

    nedflanders Well-Known Member

    Sure we do. But some of us act despite what our families will think, and act with regret. Some don't care what our families will think, and act of our own accord. And some act because of what our families will think, to screw them.

    Sorry, but it's not about you all. For suicides, it's about us. We're the ones who'll be burning in Hell, not you all. So give it a rest.

    Wow, that's deep. Have you shared your insight with anyone else?
     
  4. ~PinkElephants~

    ~PinkElephants~ Senior member

    Wow, ned another post with little care or concern for the original poster. You lack empathy. She was expressing her pain when it comes to how she felt when she lost her daughter.

    If you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all.
     
  5. tesseract

    tesseract Well-Known Member

    Did you actually read the original post?
    She has pain, yeah okay, but, she is just telling us, how bad our parents/envo will feel. We know that thank you very much,,
     
  6. Crue-K

    Crue-K Well-Known Member

    It must have been very hard for you to post that and whatever the circumstances are it is a tragic loss. You will find though that many people who post here do receive help. If you use the forums often, you may find the posts to much for you, but you need to respect that most peope here are just reaching out and sharing their feelings. Personally speaking I have attempted twice and have lost both my brother and best friend to suicide. Even though I saw the pain and anguish that my mum went through, it still does not alleviate the feelings I have from trying again.

    I hope you get whatever you are looking for from these forums, take care.
     
  7. nedflanders

    nedflanders Well-Known Member

    Perhaps.

    And doing do in the typically self-centered way of families of suicides--"They transferred the pain to me!" "You don't know how bad this makes me feel!"

    Gag me with a spoon. We don't do it in the first place because we're happy.

    Fortunately, I can take solace in the other family-of-suicide slogans: "There was nothing anyone could do. Once someone decides to do it, that's it." and my favorite, "They're in a better place." Yes, like stinks for us would-be suicides, but I'm quite sure Hell's worse.

    Of course I have nothing nice to say--that's why I want to kill myself. But perhaps if the families of suicides actually saw what it's like, they wouldn't spout such inanities. So I'm just doing my part to make this a less-annoying world for everyone.
     
  8. Abacus21

    Abacus21 Staff Alumni

    Rather than turning this into a slanging match, let's concentrate on helping and supporting the OP :)

    :grouphug:
     
  9. the_nihilist_reason

    the_nihilist_reason Antiquities Friend

    Hi there,

    I am truly sorry to read about the loss of your daughter. So many of us here know what it's like to loose one or more that was dear to us that way.
    I hope that your other children are well and that you have a stable loving relationship to get you through it. Although from you description, things seemed to not be so rosy any longer, which is normal in these cases.

    Unfortunatly I will have to say just one thing more because of your introduction. I do NOT want to deter you from commenting again, but I want you to think about something.

    Have you ever been beaten up? Not just once, but again and again on a daily basis without having any realistic means to escape from it? Have you ever been sexually abused? Once or repeatedly? What about sexually abused by your parents? Do you hear voices? Have you ever lost your whole family without having anyone else to rely on or talk to? Ever had to kill someone in war and live to regret it, with haunting nightmares for the rest of your life? Have you ever smelled the strange mix of blood and cordite during war and noticed how easily that feeling can be triggered back in ordinary life? Have you ever witnessed a close one get stabbed to death before your very eyes? Ever had to endure having your legs stuck after a car accident while your girlfriend is screaming and bleeding to death right beside you? Ever needed help to stop cutting yourself? Ever had anxiety and panic attacks? Ever lost your job on the same day that you found out your husband was cheating on you? Have you been bullied and picked on every day while society reacts with nothing but indifference? Have you been used by others your whole life without ever getting anything but complaints in return? Ever been sanctioned and punished for helping people? Ever been lonely with your toughts? Ever OD and lived to tell about it? Ever been chained down at a psychiatric institution? Ever had to file for personal bankruptcy and stand up to all your responsibilities instead of running away from them? Ever been so lonely that it doesn't matter whether you live or die, because nobody cares about you anyway, and your life was already bad for you? Ever lost all your hair because the cancer has come that far in your life that you can see the future in the mirror, unable to forget it when you put the mirror down? Ever been so poor that you cannot afford the medicine you need to fight your sickness, because the country you live in practices social Darwinism? Ever been ridiculed by your doctor when you mentioned your depression or suicide thoughts? Ever lost your control over drugs and alcohol?

    Welcome to Suicide Forum!

    There is a great diversity here. Multicultural in practice. There are people of superior intellect, people with IQ over 170, incredibly talented artists, writers, and professionals of all sorts of trades here. Wealthy or poorer, religious or existentialist, young or old, it makes no difference.

    I may have sounded harsh to you, or like I am overreacting, but here is why;
    To just about everyone here, Suicide Forum is most likely the only place in public or even private where suicide or the other issues we discuss - are not taboo. NONE of us here wants to die. That is why we are here...
    What we don't need is the attitude of positivist sociology and unsympathetic subjectivity turned against us.
    I appreciate your concern to keep us alive, but if you read the guidelines of SF you will have read that this is a Pro Life community already.

    You have your loss as well...
    It's not that long since your poor daughter commit suicide, so maybe you are still in shock. Maybe it is the frustration from all the efforts you made to keep her alive as well, and much, much, more. It's a hard loss, so we are all here for you when you need us, need to vent, disuss problems or just socialise.
    There is a "Antiquitie's" sub-forum on this site for those of us over 30, in case you want to make it easier to find people your own age or situation:
    http://www.suicideforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=51

    Take care. :smile:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2008
  10. LILICHIPIE

    LILICHIPIE Well-Known Member

    That was harsh ned
    She feels for her daughter and you can only respect that
    We are not talking here about the choice of giving up or not; we re talking about loss to suicide; hence posted in loved and lost
    I also lost a friend to suicide and I can tell you that its NOT the same grief wether you are a parent or a friend
    Its not just logic; its true
    Lost child to suicide comes from your blood
    I think her point of view is interesting as even if we say so; we do know about the guilt to give up and how it would affect our families

    Im sorry about the harsh comments mother of child lost and I feel for your loss
     
  11. Thank you,

    I did not come here to cause trouble or to make it all about me.

    I will not post here again.
     
  12. Crue-K

    Crue-K Well-Known Member

    Don't be detered, you wil find a lot of support here for your loss, one would imagine that many of those who post here have been judged all their lives, they way you came across seemed to be the same. I'm sure it wasn't intended, and I don't think you are causing trouble. I hope you have not been distressed by sme of the replies :smile:
     
  13. Only1?

    Only1? Active Member

    How totally unfair to give this woman the grief you did knowing how she must be feeling already.

    I too think this thread shows just how very selfish some people can be as its all very well saying 'what about the pain we are feeling', 'we are the ones feeling shit thats why we kill ourselves', thats true but its still no excuse to put everyone else through it for the rest of their lives......especially children who have nothing to do with the causes.

    And as for burning in hell, what a load of crap......its just a ticket to peace and none of the shit that we are left to clean up after you.
     
  14. LILICHIPIE

    LILICHIPIE Well-Known Member

    im going to be beaten for that lol but I just cant deal with hurting for no good reasons
    but yeah Graham it probably comes from self centered teenie adults -
    sorry if im wrong but your way of thinking the nihilist reason who ended up in some creepy lawyer trial speech to me lol; terresact and nedflanders [/I]just makes me feel like this

    there s a wild gap between discussing suicide and eventually arguing why her child committing suicide
    but you cant criticize a mother child loss
    first because losing your child when ur a mom is out of nature in the natural cycle
    then because of suicide and your not in her shoes not in ure parents or tutors
    wouldnt you feel hurt if you were denied your own pain and torment
    I think so
    and i feel that way though im a pro one
    I understand suicide but would never argue over a mom loss or family loss in general
    having your despair and pain ned teressact and the nihilst reason is one thing but putting them to justify her daughters suicide is not the right way thats kind of insulting to put all ur despair and eventually anger of ur own failure to deal with it; im sorry im kind of angry and i dont mean any insulting but thats just the way I see it
    you dont know about how shes feeling as her daughter was her child; hers:
    until you dont know you cant judge
    still u can express reasons about suicide but not in that disrespectful way

    Morever i think her visit was meaningful to her as she does want to understand her child suicide; to deal with it in some way by time and then because as a parent u need to know; you cant help asking why even though you feel uve shown some key desparate factors
    you cant fight on that; thats just wrong

    we re talking here about loved and lost not suicide forum box
    if u do want to be helped you can but that means also accepting different feelings than yours and some kind of projection through another person if u get what i mean
    if u dont want well then just do it if you want a confirmation about how your family doesnt understand you and will feel for your loss
    apart from being an orphean and having no tutors you cant deny parents or family friends relatives despair
    Im a pro one and will eventually end it in a few but I would never argue and judge about grieving; thats just wrong and out of topic in a general view

    sorry to be mad but the way she was treated is just not right; plus it was her first post
    Im sorry if u feel anger from me but I needed to react about this obvious self centered reactions

    mother of lost child I hope you ll be posting more however
    it can help people here and you could maybe find a way to get some keys answers about your child
    Im again sorry for you but as I said its not your fault
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  15. tesseract

    tesseract Well-Known Member

    I am not criticizing anyone's pain. Of course it hurts a lot, and loosing your child is not something someone has to be prepared for.

    However, when mother of child lost says,

    I stand up and say, its not about you. Her daughter had problems. I almost sure she didn't want to cause pain to her mother. She probably knew it would hurt her mother. But in the end, Suicide isn't a decision. People do it when pain is greater than what she/he can handle. The fact that suicide causes pain to others, doesn't reduce ones own pain, in fact, it causes us to feel guilt, pushing us that much closer to taking ones own life.
     
  16. GoldenPsych

    GoldenPsych Well-Known Member

    I know when I have been in my deepest despair other people don't come in to it. This is probably how she felt. Everyone is on this site for a reason, a common reason in which we all share. Yes, I can understand now as I dont feel as bad as I have done at other times how people would be hurt if I went but when I took the pills when I wanted to end it all I could consider was myself and the pain I was feeling. People say suicide is selfish, I will stand up to that and say yes I agree. I have tried it. I still think about it. I will prob try and maybe succeed, who knows, but what I do know when the time comes I know that I wont be thinking about other people. It is hard enough to think about me and what I am doing. For me when i feel like I want to end it no one else comes in to it and if you have seen the film Gothika at the beginning with the mirror in the office that is how I view the world and it is bloody scary. So please don't start slagging other people off on here. Try and see that losing a child has to be the worst thing that can ever happen to a person. It is the most un-natural thing in the world. But at the same time don;t go slagging off peoople who have responded as it could be the thing that pushes them over the edge.
     
  17. LILICHIPIE

    LILICHIPIE Well-Known Member

    i GET what you mean Golden; I was just uttered that some people here would slag off this poor woman who did nothing but explaining her grief and loss to suicide
    Extracting her daughter own suicide to judge this woman without knowing anything of her personal life is rude and inapropriate
    We can still say that we could maybe know what kind of despair her daughter went through to jump to suicide
    but evryone has its own reasons and thats no way to judge families about it
    However I think that expressing your own despair and struggles through in such a hurtful way her own daughter is sick
    this was a lost and loved post not a venting one
    and hurting this mom doesnt make those people happier I guess
    Only makes this woman worse and more hurt so whats the point
    theres no point in hurting others especially when expressing in a very selfish way your own feelings
    its just sick
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2008
  18. BlackPegasus

    BlackPegasus Well-Known Member

    Lots of :hug: for the original poster. I hope you haven't left. That's the point of this forum is to post your feelings on a loss and you haven't said anything wrong.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2008
  19. resistance

    resistance Staff Alumni

    There's nothing wrong with expressing your thoughts, mother of child lost. I am sorry to hear about your daughter's suicide, I doubt there is anything I can say to help ease your pain but I think it's important you know you can't blame yourself in any way, in all honesty, I don't know much about MS but I know it's a progressive [SIZE=-1]disabling [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]neurological [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]disorder and your daughter must have struggled a lot with it, or the fear of the future just got too much. Ultimately, I don't think anything you could have done, all the love in the world wouldn't have cured it. I'm sure she knows you loved her, we can torture ourselves and keep thinking of the "what if's" etc but it really doesn't help the pain. I sincerely hope you do return to SF. You are more than welcome to post and you are allowed to express your feelings. My PM inbox is always open if you want a chat at anytime, too. Take care of yourself. :hug:
    [/SIZE]
     
  20. jjillylilly

    jjillylilly New Member

    Hi All, I'm also a mother of someone lost to suicide. I'm not gonna waste your time or mine telling you what that means because I couldn't, it's beyond words.....and I agree wholeheartedly that the LAST thing suicidal people need is more guilt.

    That said, it's obvious that I don't know what IS needed but I will probably spend the rest of my life trying to find out.

    I've thought a lot about suicide myself, mostly due to alcoholism, I'm ten years sober now. Since my sons death I've gone even farther down that path, it is true the pain is passed on. But my inheritence has given me just a taste of what my son must have felt so ,really I don't blame him if he felt he had to end it. I would never want to see him suffer to spare me pain.

    But that doesn't mean I'm glad he laid down on the subway tracks. I keep thinking that there had to be another way. I wish he had given it just a little more time to think of reasons to live while his circumstances changed. I wish he had found this board.

    Everyone dies and I happen to beleive that everyone has the right to decide when they do but my sons suicide has taught me, on a gut level, something I always gave lip to before. That is ...we are all connected. I used to tell my sons that their being alive made my world so much BIGGER, I don't think he really got that.

    Maybe we can't stop "suicide" once it has begun (I see it as a process not an event) but if we can foster a feeling of kinship and love maybe no one will have to bear all the pain alone and it might help some.

    Just thoughts.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2008