the right thing

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by jake.007, Apr 11, 2016.

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  1. jake.007

    jake.007 Member

    lately, i've been reading (here and elsewhere) of people's experiences at the brink of self-destruction when they were brought back from the edge by something. in some cases, it was the intervention of a loved one, or the timely plea of a pet, or even just a stranger's kind word. i have come to recognize from these that there is some higher power -- whatever you put your faith in . . . a god if you are religious, or karma, or just the universe -- that intercedes to keep safe those souls or spirits. looking at my life through an objectively critical and analytical lens, i can see clearly that i have lots and lots of reasons to keep fighting and to stay here. but i know that i no longer have the desire . . . seeing the absolute mess that i have made of my life, the disasters i have imposed upon the lives of everyone who matters, everyone about whom i care, i know that my selfish reasons for wanting to continue to be here, to be alive, don't amount to anything. i should not be here, and whatever strength i had to keep up the fight is sapped entirely by the recognition that, by leaving now, i do not necessarily make amends to those around me who i have harmed, but at least the damage is stayed and maybe things become easier for them. isn't that enough of a reason to do the right thing? isn't that a good enough excuse for going along with the screams of every cell within me that just wants to finally give up?
     
  2. ThePhantomLady

    ThePhantomLady Safety and Support SF Supporter

    I'm sorry you feel this way.

    But you do have every right to live, and no one would be better off without you. Do you have any passions or interests? What makes you happy? Why not live for that if?

    Have you sought any help to find that passion and desire? Have you had any counseling to help you through these things?
    Please do not give up.
     
  3. jake.007

    jake.007 Member

    thanks for your response, ThePhantomLady. i appreciate your thoughts, but do not necessarily agree. in particular, i don't think i agree that i have some inherent right to live simply because i have done so this long. my life is an example on one using resources but providing no benefit in exchange for them, and in fact, causing harm to people who i was rightly obliged to care for and protect. and i have no passions or interests that justify continuing my life. to the extent i should be living for anything, it should be to undo the damage i have caused, and that is, realistically, not possible -- at least not by any method other than expediting my death. and while i appreciate that counseling is a valuable and important tool, what little counseling i have received during my life has been entirely ineffective, probably because i was not sufficiently open to it. but whatever the reason for its failure in the past, the circumstances now are not sufficiently different to expect that the result would be different. at bottom, whether i should (or even can) continue to live, i have absolutely no desire to do so, and that dictates the result, i think.
     
  4. lifetalkz

    lifetalkz Well-Known Member

    Jake-Been there. I know that space very well. I was always struck by the irony of the situation-the smartest person in the room had decided to get out of the game and do what was best for the greater whole. That was precisely my argument-everyone would be better off without me in their lives and I was miserable anyway-so why not just check out? I stared into the abyss every single day but in the end I pulled myself away from it. I turned off my intellect and my concerns about doing what was best for the rest of family who were fed up with me anyway. I went my own way and took good care of myself. I'd tried for so long to be who they wanted me to be then I gave up and decided to just be who I was.

    I ended the war I'd been waging with life for over thirty years and made a conscious choice to make peace with myself. The hardest part for me was forgiving myself for all of the damage I had caused-I had hurt many people deeply because of my pain and frustration. Some relationships were salvageable, some were not. I always thought that what I wanted the most was for everyone else to forgive me for my mistakes-but my biggest problem was that I had to forgive myself for being far less than perfect. My life is still not perfect-thankfully, I no longer think that way. I don't try to be normal-I know I never will be and it's OK. I hope that what I learned on my path to recovery is of some small help for you at this difficult time and I hope that this day is a good one. LT
     
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  5. jake.007

    jake.007 Member

    thanks so much, LifeTalkz. i think you're situation is different from mine -- i'm never the smartest person in any room . . . even the ones in which sit alone. but i certainly overthink things and what you describe -- standing at the edge of the abyss every day, peering out at the pain and hurt that those all around you suffer because of your choice to continue -- resonates with me. that look into the abyss is a daily reminder of the disaster i have created and serves as warning against continuing . . . after all, i can only make things worse. i'm so glad that you were able to pull yourself back from that place, and i understand very well that, as nice as it is to be forgiven by others, forgiving yourself is the only way you can really ever move on. i know that i cannot accomplish what you have. i cannot draw away from the edge -- it's that car wreck that you cannot help but rubberneck as you drive slowly past . . . as horrific as it is, it draws my eyes and i cannot look away. and i know just as surely that i cannot forgive myself for any of this mess. i don't deserve to be forgiven. i deserve to suffer and to be punished.
     
  6. lifetalkz

    lifetalkz Well-Known Member

    Thank you for listening though-I'm sorry you're in so much pain. I'm always here if you ever want to to express yourself to someone who has no dog in the fight either way. In reference to my comment about being the smartest person in the room-I realized that I tended to think things into the ground, believing that I could solve complicated problems through intellect and logic. I was wrong-all of my endless hours of analyzing and obsessing were a waste-I had to stop thinking for renewal to be possible. I had to abandon my belief that knowledge would save the day-it didn't.
    Letting go and surrendering was what saved me-I got tired of fighting through every single second of my waking life, trying to prove that I had a right to exist. I didn't-not anymore than anyone else did anyway. I eventually felt like I was just another bully who was beating me up every day for things I had no control over. I was exactly like the people I had always hated who never gave me a chance. I decided that I didn't want to bear a strong resemblance to the people I believed were the architects of my destruction.
    I wanted to be different-I wanted to be kind, tolerant and compassionate. I started out giving those things to myself-eventually I was able to trust people enough to give it to them also. I honor where you are 100%-but I cannot tell a lie, you will be in my heart today, I will be secretly praying that you give yourself a break and let yourself be just another human being on planet earth, imperfect and flawed just like me and everyone else you know. Life is difficult and painful-anyone who tells you any differently is lying. It's not perfect-but there is a lot to look forward to and a lot to be thankful for.
     
  7. blacknblue

    blacknblue Well-Known Member

    Jake please forgive my bluntness but if you feel you deserve to suffer and be punished then your punishment should be to live on and have to endure the pain and suffering - surely death is the easy way out. I too feel like you I know what you're thinking. I don't believe things will miraculously improve but like me perhaps your punishment is to suffer
     
  8. jake.007

    jake.007 Member

    thank you, blacknblue. I understand your point, but i don't think it is as simple as that. the problem with my staying alive is that the suffering is not limited to me. my existence inflicts suffering (in ever increasing quantity and degree) on people i care for who most certainly do not deserve to suffer merely as a consequence of their association with me. it is not so much that i see my death as some sort of well-deserved suffering or punishment to me, but rather, as a kindness to those people i care for who suffer because of me. it is a way -- the only way -- that i can end (or at least, reduce) their continued suffering.
     
  9. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN

    You say your existence inflicts suffering on others - can you give an example of this? Because if you cannot, it would lend evidence to the case that your thinking is distorted. Much like your assertion that you are not smart - having spoken to you at length, it is very clear that is not true. If you can be so blatantly wrong about yourself in one regard, it is not a large leap to also assume that you are wrong about yourself in other regards.

    Whatever you may WANT (you do not 'deserve' to be punished - you want to be punished because you have a distorted self view that is leading to a rather intense self hatred) nobody here is going to agree that yes, you should die or that your dying is better or kinder or right. Your self perception is screwed and until you divest of the negative self talk and telling yourself blatant untruths about yourself, that is not going to start to right itself.

    As for whether or not the people you care about deserve to suffer - they could not suffer if they did not love you - as they love you, they do not deserve to have you kill yourself. They do deserve your concerted effort to be the best person you can be, without giving up or saying "can't" or "don't want to" - because you certainly can and if you truly want them to be happier (as you profess) you will find a way to want to.
     
  10. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    The bottom line is that when you possess the ability to reason and think clearly enough to understand consequences of your actions- and clearly you do if you are able to say the consequences of your actions are having a harmful effect on the peopel you love- then you also have the ability to amend or change those actions to ones that are less selfish and self serving. While depression often brings on many self serving and selfish thought processes even when neatly played as "for the benefit of others" in the end they are clearly excuses to allow one to ease there conscience about the very sure and known pain they will cause to family members and the life long emotional scars to children. Even the most brief of reading and research makes that all very clear. If you are able to see the actions and foretell the consequences, then you are also able, if one chooses to to change the actions and the outcomes. It is simply a matter of choosing to exert the required effort or choosing not to, and understanding the true difference between "cant" and "don't want to" or "want" and "need".

    In the end the choices we make every day can be made with the intent to make life better and to do the things that need to be done for that to happen, or the choice to do nothing (which is in fact choosing a course of action with known results of making life worse) simply because it is easier and we do not feel like doing it. But it is a choice and imposing that choice on your family and then claiming because you choose that, it is then okay to choose to impose a lifelong emotional trauma on the children as a way of saving them lacks any type of logic and is purely self serving regardless of the time, effort, and wordiness taken to make the case of something else. Relatively few peopel are genuinely so far gone into the wells of depression that they are truly incapable of making different choices - and in those rare cases they are incapable of even basic care of themselves or of passing off the act of normalcy enough to prevent hospitalization,. The mere act of of passing self off is enough energy and strength to make other choices if one chooses to. It really comes down to do you want or choose to do what is going to make a difference and help you and your family, or do you prefer to simply do nothing. Do not confuse the prefer or easier to do nothing differently as not being a a choice however because it is 100% your choice.
     
  11. jake.007

    jake.007 Member

    thanks for all of your responses. i will not bore you further with wordy responses or faulty logic. i did not mean to inflict either of those on anyone, nor was i really looking for any answers. i was merely using this medium as a way to organize my thoughts. i have found that trying to write them out is a useful way to force myself to think through them. again, i apologize if i left anyone with the impression that i was trying to accomplish something beyond only that. i have always understood that everything here -- all of the harm i have caused in the past, as well as how i proceed (or even if i proceed) in the future -- are choices that i alone am responsible for. and i most certainly have never shifted that responsibility to anyone else, nor have i blamed anyone but myself for the effect of those choices. to suggest, though, that i can simply choose to do no further harm does not accurately reflect the reality of my situation. the choices i have already made have ongoing circumstances that will continue to affect the people around me for as long as i continue. it is not nearly so simple as just making new choices. there are real and continuing consequences of the poor choices i made, such that choosing to end my life is, after careful and thoughtful consideration, is the path that i have determined to be most likely to end (or at least reduce) the ongoing harm to the people in my life. you are free to view this as illogical or self-serving, and you can characterize it as a choice to avoid exert myself for the good of others. you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but please understand that i am not so foolish or self-absorbed to imagine that this is anything other than i choice i am making. it is not forced upon me and it is not undertaken lightly without due consideration of the implications and consequences.
     
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