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The Suicidal Dilemma

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Necromanti, Jul 3, 2009.

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  1. Necromanti

    Necromanti Well-Known Member

    When a person is suicidal, there are instances where they may not want to live due to being unable to cope with their reality, but they do not want to truly die; they want to live happily by trying to seek out help, and may be afraid of dying.

    What then, of those that know no fear of death, and intently want to die?
    A person who is suicidal can ultimately only attain happiness through their own efforts, and by working hard through seeking out help. It is all up to them in the end.
    However, if the person truly intends to die, then they would not want to seek out help either, for that would mean that they would have to continue living; it would be counter-intuitive for the person to wage both sides of a war.

    If the improvement of their mental health is solely dependent on that person, then surely, they would be without hope.
    In many cases, even those who want help are unable to receive it, and there would be many who cannot receive it without the intervention of a third party. Even further, the therapy available is often ineffective due to how difficult depression and suicidal feelings truly are to tackle, even more so since these people tend to be so troubled, and may have additional mental illnesses.
    Many medications are only useful for a small number of individuals... It's a shame that there is no cure-all elixir that would stabilize any and all chemical imbalances.

    To be honest with you, I'm not even sure what my point is anymore... lol
    I suppose that every suicidal person has a fragment within, no matter how small, that wants to continue living, and seek help.
    The chances of living seem so slim, though, when it is ultimately up to the individual to tackle their own despair.

    A person's demise is only as inevitable as they see fit, but even then, a mindset sure is difficult to change.
  2. Neverhappyalwayssad

    Neverhappyalwayssad Well-Known Member

    Yea I've heard the hardest part in dealing with a suicidal person is trying to get them to have hope. I guess that rings true since I have no hope lol, and my parents can't understand how I can have no hope for things to get better.
  3. bright1

    bright1 Well-Known Member

    I've read that when a person gets really down and is there for a long time, his (or her) thinking gets disordered so he can't even reason things out the way that you did. I also read just recently in Scientific American (I think) that since no one alive has ever experienced nonexistence, we can't truly understand what it will be like to be dead. So people who are about to die still cling to the idea that they will continue to exist somehow, maybe to see the fallout from their death.

    The article cited an anecdote in which an atheist college student was asked what he thought would happen to a Christian student in his class if he should die. "Nothing," said the atheist, "He'll just cease to exist, and then he'll know that he was wrong about everything."

    Even I, who likes to think of myself as smarter than the average person (don't we all?) can't help but imagine getting some satisfaction watching people realize that I needed help but they were oblivious. I can't help but imagine how it will be to watch them realize that they have to take some blame for what happens to me.
  4. total eclipse

    total eclipse SF Friend Staff Alumni

    I would think you would see a lot of pain and regret in thier eyes and knowing i cause this pain it would not be the last thing i would wish on anyone even my worse enemy. Not a nice way to leave this world at all. I would want to leave this world knowing i did everything humanly possible to help others take away their pain but in the end i failed but at least i tried.
  5. reefer madness

    reefer madness Account Closed

    Why should anybody else take blame for something you alone are responsible for doing?
  6. bright1

    bright1 Well-Known Member

    That's a good question. (and now I delete a rant about how everyone is treating me so bad). But here's what I'm really saying: When my friend died of a heart attack, it was a big shock, because she didn't ever mention being sick. But as we all sat around, each of us could remember something that happened that should have told us that her heart was failing. Only when we got together and added it all up did we see what none of us could see by ourselves. We all feel guilty for not having caught on sooner and voiced our concerns to the others so we could figure it out sooner and helped her.

    It seems the same thing is happening with me. I imagine that the people who know me might all get together afterward, and each of them would share some small thing that I did to try to let people know how much trouble I'm in, but no one put it together until afterward. One would remember that I changed the procedure for planning club meetings because I have difficulty talking on the phone (if they say they're not available for the meeting I take it personally). Another might mention that I quit a club because the long drives were difficult for me--too much time alone. A third might realize that I asked him to go to the movies with me every weekend for two months (something we used to do regularly) but he told me each time he was too busy. A fourth: I asked her to have lunch with me but she never got around to replying to the email. A fifth: I mentioned making a doctor's appointment because I'm exhausted all the time. A sixth: was told that I had started taking Chantix to stop smoking.

    Anyway, one thing I realize is that I've got to do more than drop these hints if I want help. I'm working on that.
  7. reefer madness

    reefer madness Account Closed

    Yes, if you want people to help you and see your pain you have to let them know about it. This is something I also struggle with.
  8. LenaLunacy

    LenaLunacy Well-Known Member

    Your post is really well written, just wanted to say that first :)
    I wholeheartedly agree with this point;
    "I suppose that every suicidal person has a fragment within, no matter how small, that wants to continue living, and seek help."
    I always say to people when they're at their lowest, that for them to still be here and talking on the forum, there must be something inside them that won't give up.
    I also think that it is up to that one person to seek help, other people can only do so much, if the suicidal person isn't willing to accept the help then what's the point? It's very hard to deal with suicidal feelings when you're alone, i won't say impossible because i know people who have done it, but it's pretty hard, and it's made easier with the support of family and friends and a therapist if possible.
    I'm gonna start losing my train of thought now so i'll stop there :)
  9. bright1

    bright1 Well-Known Member

    Speaking of suicidal dilemmas. . . .

    I started taking Chantix a couple of weeks ago because I want to quit smoking. I had been cigarette-free for more than 20 years when my husband died, but started again that day (semi-long story). Anyway, I used to be able to go cold turkey whenever I felt like it, but this time has been hard. I can deal with the cravings, but it turns out that nicotine is an antidepressant, and I would go back to cigarettes to relieve the crushing depression.

    Anyway, I asked my doctor for a prescription without telling him that I was already pretty depressed. I promised to let him know if I "got too crazy" on them. I started taking them knowing that they might increase my thoughts of suicide. But here's the dilemma that I found myself pondering:

    If the Chantix makes me want to kill myself, why should I bother to stop smoking? Why not quit the Chantix and just smoke until the end? But then, if I stop the Chantix, maybe I won't want to kill myself, and then I have to think about quitting smoking again.

  10. Necromanti

    Necromanti Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Lena. :shy:

    bright1, do you find yourself having more suicidal thoughts now that you are on the Chantix? If that's the case, then you should definitely stop taking it, and regardless, you should talk to your doctor about this. Hopefully he can give you more options so that you are able to tackle your re-emerging addiction and not making yourself feel even worse.
    It's important for your doctor to know how you were feeling beforehand to avoid complications, just like how you would tell your doctor what medications you were allergic to before they administered them to you.

    I think it is worst for those people who are suicidal and understand the consequences of what they will do, and how much it will hurt people. Just the thought of a parent having to lose their child is enough to make me cry. People will always feel responsible in some way when someone close to them dies...especially if they knew beforehand that the person was suicidal, and were unable to stop it.
    One of my best friends told me how she felt so powerless and worthless since she feels that she is unable to do more for me, and is ultimately unable to stop me if I am to go through with it.

    If I believed in an afterlife, then it would be devastating for me. In regards to relativity, I kind of think of it like this. When one sleeps, you do not notice how many hours pass, and it feels instantaneous.
    For those who are cryogenically preserved, and are awoken and cured in the future, would not notice how many years they have been in stasis for. If there is a future where they are able to be revived, then technically in their sense of time, they are already in the future since it was instantaneous for them.

    When a person dies, this "sleep" is in fact a complete obliteration of consciousness and is eternal; the moment they die, the universe would be non-existent due to an endless number of years passing. Your death is like a personal apocalypse. In your own sense of time, which you cannot sense due to being dead, the world ends in an instant, so that those around you suffer for an insignificant amount of time, and by the time they are dead, it will not matter since they will not suffer anymore. Of course, that is due to my belief that when someone dies, their bodies "switch off" (and can be turned back on as long as their brains remain relatively intact, and are able to be revived in the future through scientific break-throughs).

    In the lives of those left behind, however, time will trudge on as usual, and they will suffer greatly...

    Sorry for being so long-winded and confusing. :tongue:
  11. kiera

    kiera Member

    Great Avatar Bright1

    My partner died by suicide. and yes, there are perhaps many hints that he left me. In hindsight they are so clear. So its comforting to know i have guilt? that i am deeply considering ending my own life now?
  12. Nyx

    Nyx Member

    Well the "problem" is not only your brain chemistry physically changing to pre-dispose you to depression the second, third, fourth etc time around, but also the fact that if you want to die, there will always be the survival instinct that kicks in, no matter how much you "want" to die. The body is programmed to fight so not only will your mind fight it but more importantly your body will naturally react and try to save itself. Especially when you are young and relatively healthy like me.

    It sucks. But maybe it doesn't? Maybe we just need to keep on going? Just realize that technically life is not very long EVER, even when you live to 100, so you might as well just wait and it will come. And in the meantime, occupy yourself. Maybe it will even start to make you happy.

    MY dillema is that getting better and feeling happy, makes me feel more attached to life so that I fear death even more and get sad, in fact devastated that I have to die and leave my friends and family. Ughhh. I cant win either way. I totally agree with you that it is hopeless getting a suicidal person to see hope. My bf left me for this reason (i'm sure) and he said I was "too much drama" and my best-friend left me for this reason. I am sure my family will give up soon too.
  13. bright1

    bright1 Well-Known Member

    All I know is that although I've thought of suicide almost every day since my husband died, it's been worse in the last two months, and so bad lately that I've sought out this forum. But in the last two months I've mourned the death of my best friend and moved from the home where my husband and I lived (and where he died). I'm also suffering from an intense, painful and very inappropriate crush on a married friend.

    I asked for the Chantix knowing what it's effect on me might be and with some confidence that I could deal with it. It's worth it to me to quit smoking. But I'll make this promise: If I do kill myself, I'll mention in my note that the Chantix put me over the edge, and that my doctor shouldn't be blamed for prescribing it as I didn't tell him I was already suicidal.

    As for the rest of your post, it was very thought-provoking. I'm reminded of some movie I saw years ago when someone dies and an instant later his spouse or someone shows up. He wonders how she died so soon after he did, and she tells him that she lived for many more years.

    And you're right. It will probably seem to the person who is dying that the suffering will be over soon, and maybe that person imagines that his or her loved ones' suffering will be over just as quickly. It's good to remind us that this will not be the case.
  14. bright1

    bright1 Well-Known Member

    Kiera, I didn't mean to upset you. Please understand that I was going on a little about how my thinking has gotten a little disordered of late. I know that what I said wasn't logical or fair.

    I know what feeling guilty after a death is like. Although I just didn't know any better at the time, I feel guilty about not encouraging my husband to see a doctor about his chronic heartburn sooner. It was a symptom of the growing tumor in his stomach. (Now I yell at the TV when the commercials come on encouraging people to live on OTC heartburn medications. "See a doctor!" is what I yell.)

    Anyway, I also feel terribly guilty about chocolate pudding. My husband wanted a bowl of chocolate pudding made from scratch, but I was so tired from caring for him day and night that I didn't make it. I thought I would do it in a day or two, when I was more rested. He died before I could do it. Now I can't even look at a bowl of chocolate pudding without crying. I can't believe that I refused to do such a small thing for him at a time when he wanted so little.

    My friend's husband feels guilty for not having taken a CPR class in the last few years so he could properly administer it to his wife. He feels guilty for going to bed earlier and leaving her downstairs. He feels guilty for so many things, and no one can convince him that there was probably nothing anyone could have done to prevent her heart attack. My friend had a bad heart; it was probably inevitable.

    I think that guilt is probably something every survivor suffers from, even about things they shouldn't feel guilty about. I don't want my family and friends to have guilt about my dying. Thanks for the reminder.
  15. reefer madness

    reefer madness Account Closed

    Guilt is a normal part of the grieving process.
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