The truth behind religion and customs

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by just.me, Aug 27, 2009.

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  1. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    http://www.pnas.org/content/104/50/19751.abstract

    A recent research showed that unlike monkeys, humans have the tendency
    to do completely worthless things "just because someone ales do them".
    Monkeys, do not follow rituals because rituals are worthless, a complete waist of energy
    while children will copy their parents no matter what
    so if you grew in a religious family, you are doomed to follow pointless rituals
    to spend your life following worthless customs and much more.
    Jesus Christ, all he had to do is to force few family's to follow some rituals he invented
    such as washing the head of a newborn with water
    and as long as the grown ups done so, the children would of do so too
    and then it turns into a ritual, a part of an entire religion.

    This thread is not about god and so on
    its just so that religious people (Christians, Muslims, Jews) will understand
    that whatever they do, most of it is pointless, like going to the church!
    or to pray every morning?
    researches showed that religious people DON'T HAVE A LONGER HEALTHIER LIFE!
     
  2. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    again, unsubstantiated bollocks! i know many people who detest religion who come from religious backgrounds, also some monkeys perform a ritual dance/uproar before hunting smaller primates! yet again you have not looked into something properly at all before claiming it as "truth"
    Plus the link you showed only states children overimitate, unless you think we stagnate intellectually from a yong age its bollocks!
    i do many things different to the way i did as a child.
    :robin::robin::robin::robin::robin:
     
  3. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    well it is a research done by professionals
    a theory with a strong foundation
    only those 2 are enough for me to understand the world around me
    plus its not like i have a better theory
     
  4. akito38

    akito38 Member

    I also hate religion in general. But it seems to work for some people. At the very least the act of praying more than likely calms some people down.

    Humans are intelligent creatures and our brains just need to keep entertained. so we create things like religion and forms of entertainment.
     
  5. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni

    I know plenty of children who grew up in a religious household who are atheist.
    Also, I think you may have a distorted view of Jesus' teachings. It wasn't about ritual... and he didn't force anyone to do anything. I don't think that any spiritual avatar such as Jesus or Buddha intended on starting a religion. They just wanted to share what they had found to be true with those who were willing to listen.
     
  6. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    You missed the point here
    i am not saying that a child to a christian family will be christian as well...
    the research shows that children gain "rituals' or "habits" from their parents or the surroundings
    For example we all know the "Everyone have it, so i bough one too" habit
    where people buy things they don't need only because other have them
    it is a common habit among children

    The idea of what i posted is that people mimic others with no explanation
    and then keep up with the new habits until they die (most of the time)
    for example: Christmas, even if you are atheist you still calibrate Christmas!
    why? because its a custom, something that everyone around you are doing!
    Same thing with buying stuff on Christmas
    you can easily find great prices even during normal days
    but ONLY BECAUSE its Christmas you will go out and buy tons of garbage you dont need
    why? because its Christmas...
     
  7. shades

    shades Staff Alumni

    JUST ME: You have taken a very short work on causal effect and turned it into a gigantic personal rant against religion.

    I am not religious and grew up in a fairly religious family. It is possible that many people are only religious because they grew up in a religious family but there are those who decided that it was not for them and did not follow the custom pounded into their heads.

    Many people from religious families leave religion, and many come to religion that were not in a relgious family.

    So, you should stop the religious rant and focus on the article which simply stated that children mimic adults even when the adult may be using an implement in the wrong manner.

    You also left out the fact that children would not be able to speak unless taught by adults. We learn the basics of human development through mimicry as does every animal.

    You are way off in your analysis of the article and subsequent thoughts on religion. The article has nothing to do with religion.
     
  8. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    It's actually been shown that attending religious services when you're older can help with health and various other things due to the social interactions...
     
  9. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    yes but it got nothing to do with religion
    you can just as easy spend time at the local pub instead
    or at the beach, or a night club, whatever, all are better then to sit
    and ask things from an imaginary dude
     
  10. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    Monkeys have a limited intelligence, where as we have a much deeper forethought and wider perception. With this we apply different aspects and depths that monkeys cannot comprehend, and would appear to be worthless to them because it doesn't fit into their perceptual world. It's not about religion, it's about the mental capacity to comprehend and to believe among other mental depths that monkeys do not hold compared to us.
    That's how I look at what you wrote. Excluding you targeting religion for the comparison aspect.
     
  11. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    Well the fact that i am targeting religion is normal, as far as i see it
    religion is made out of billions of sheep controlled by one smart dude, the pope.

    Anyways as i said before
    my point is that unlike monkeys, people copy each other for good and for bad!
    For example in a town full of gangs there is a higher chances for a teenager
    to become part of a gang, or in a Christian town, there is higher chance for
    a local teenager to become religious.
    My point is that most people don't have a backbone, they cant stand for their own wills
    if "hot" means bikini, then 90% of all girls will wear bikini
    and only the 10%, the actually girls that have personality, will wear only
    what they consider as "hot" and not what the community consider as "hot".
    even if it means to be an outcast!

    yet its the 90% that im worrying about really.. HORDE OF SHEEP! =\
     
  12. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    The link you gave was ONLY a study into CHILDREN....OVERIMITATING, it did not go as far as to say that these actions of a child last beyond childhood.
    Its common knowledge children overimitate, its part of learning but as we grow we learn our own methods.i went hunting with a friend once, while setting nets the same way as my friend and i have both learned, his son (10) came along and showed us both up by managing to find a method for setting the nets even quicker than the both of us. Before then he had always copied, then on realising he could do it quicker adapted his own technique.
    I can not see in ANY way how this study is linked to religion, customs are also vastly different and not related.
    You seem to post before putting any thought into it!
     
  13. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    as opposed to non-religious, who pay their income tax (not realising it is illegal to do so) who then pay vehicle excise duty (again its an illegal tax) pay for a driving license (contradicting our unalienable right to travel without hindrance) who pay for a TV license, Who allow the government to go to war (NOT for the people) who allow the government to keep research secret from the public, who allow crimes against the public by OUR servants to go unpunished....who get vaccinated when ordered to, allowed the public to be FORCEABLY sterilised for years and years.......i could go on forever.....Religion doesnt make people sheep! your all fucking sheep anyway cos none of you will stand for your convictions. How many of you have tried to arrest the authorities, prosecute them in a CRIMINAL case let alone a civil case?
    And your a hypocrite, you feel able enough to bitch about it on here, why not take it to the heads of the church, argue with them, if you feel its unjust then try prosecuting them? POT CALLING KETTLE BLACK!!!
     
  14. lightbeam

    lightbeam Antiquities Friend

    I'm so glad I don't aspire to either religion or lack thereof, so I don't get into pointless arguements. :smile:
     
  15. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    OOOOOOOOH YES YOU DO :biggrin:
     
  16. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    Me? paying taxes? lol no i am not...
    last time i payed taxes was like when i was 18 or something...
    and just so that you know, all this crap you talking about, i know it too
    and i am an activist myself, but the fkn problem is that most people
    are too dumb to know this shit, like when i tell a friend:
    "your income tax is illegal and you dont have to pay it by law"
    he says: "wtf? yes you do! everyone are paying it!" -.-'

    and yes the studies were made on children
    but a child inside a Christian family have much grater chance to maintain
    at least some of the rituals\customs upon gowning up
     
  17. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    The main word in that being chance! the study does not go into the chances of them using their illogical overimitation beyond childhood, Now if the study were to show that they would i could possibly see a link, but it doesnt, therefore i think the link is something you have generated without having the study to back it up.
    As for people being sheep, they really are, if only people would read up on common law, would look into the lisbon treaty and see that it will effectively destroy all our laws, removing the british isles from a common law jurisdiction, with that removing our inalienable rights, now why dont people look into it and stand against it, cos they dont give a fuck, they are to scared of retaliating against the state because if they lose their job they think they are fucked. They dont even understand the concept of money, a mere promissary note with no real value!
    End of the day we're all fucked cos noone wants to cause a scene. everyones being a sheep and are being taken for everything they have, willingly too!
     
  18. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    It's easy for us to say that people are being sheep and that we should fight the system, but remember it's one thing to talk that rhetoric and another to act by it (i.e. easier said than done). A lot of people have families to consider, so say nothing of their own survival. If a person decides to rebel against the system, they risk doing so on their own, only to watch everything they have and need to pay for disappear. A world without money and material obligations would be wonderful, but such a world is unlikely to exist for a very, very long time, if ever. Even before the advent of currency, humans have almost always had some holder of value, from bones and seashells, to precious stones and now paper (and increasingly 'credit').

    And the point of taxes is to fund public infrastructure and services, such as pensions for the elderly, roads, schools, police departments, etc. Granted, that's the theoretical purpose and it's certainly subject to abuse and inefficiency, but that is the central purpose. Now if we lived in an anarchic society where we all looked after ourselves, made and used our own possessions and food, etc, that's a different story.

    Sorry, I digressed.
     
  19. xan

    xan Chat Buddy

    My parents are religious... I'm not religious. Surely that disproves what you said? Also humans are social creatures so going to church and following other people and doing the same rituals is a natural and emotionally rewarding thing to do.
     
  20. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    100% agree
    but if you or anyone ales can assure me that when the time comes
    and we will stand against our corporative states
    just assure me that i wont be alone to fight against the system
    and you can count on me to fight by your side

    thing is that im not stupid
    i wont go alone against a system as i know it wont change much
    except taking away from me what is left from my freedom

    and about our family's...
    idk about you
    but my g\f know that if we will have to, we will live in a damn tent
    just so that our freedom wont be taken away by some fat ass corporative pig
    and i dont want any insurance on my survival as an old fart
    if i wont be able to take care of myself then it time for me to go

    and if i want my kids to be educated
    i will talk to the local family's with kids in my naighbourhood and we will
    hire a private teacher for our kids
    instead of sending them to crime and drugs infested schools
    and instead of letting my kids to watch TV
    i will buy them a computer with access to the internet where
    they will see both side of every coin and will have access to loads of information

    i will do that
    but i cant do it alone
    and people like me are unique
    as for now, i live without binding myself to anything
    hoping that one day ill get my chance to fight for all that i believe in.
    just like the Jedi's from star wars, one shouldn't have anything that he cant afford to loose
    because if he do, he then can be controlled

    And to the guy who said he do not copy others
    few questions:
    did you finished school?
    do you smoke?

    if at least one of those is a YES then you are a walking copy of the guy next to you
    why?
    because the only reason to finish school is if you want to enslave yourself for some corporation - just like others
    and the only reason one start smoking is because he see others doing it which inspires his curiosity

    as for me
    i never finished school
    but i know how i can easily earn the same amount as an IT worker
    and i dont smoke
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2009
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