Theological Debate

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Zurkhardo, Jul 7, 2009.

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  1. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    It involves God's freedom versus his goodness. The question is: does God do good because he has to or because he chooses too? If it's out of necessity then that would compromise his own free will and/or leave God further beholden to some other force or power beyond is, no? But if it's a choice it would leave the possibility that God is capable of evil were he to choose and is thus not indefinitely good.

    This question in turn leads to the debate concerning the origin of evil. Are acts of evil God's will, since everything in the universe apparently is? Because if so that would make him subject to evil and compromise his goodness. But if evil is not the origin of God, and is thus of some other force, does that not do away with his omnipotence?

    Now I know of several different theories and answers to all this, but I'd much rather hear if from all of you :) My apologies to those atheists among you if I seem to have left you out. I figured it'd make for a good hypothetical question anyway :p
  2. Account Closed

    Hmmm, i think you are missing one important thing in all this...
    "good" is relative to your standing during a war or whatever
    So Stalin (USSR) was good, for many soviet people, yet he was evil to the Americans.

    So actually both "good" and "evil" are just an illusion
    if you steal a car, are you evil?
    if you steal a car because you have to feed your fammily, are you evil?
  3. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni

    Definitely. Good and evil are human creations I think. God just is.
  4. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    Good points. But it is merely how the debate is worded within Christianity and Islam.
  5. Account Closed

    well, from my own private point of view
    religion movments are just political movments
    and just like USA trys to maintain deplomatic relations with, lets say Russia
    that is instead of force, or war...
    same thing is with Christianity and Islam
    problem is that while Christianity prefare deplomatic relations
    Islam prefare force
    overall, its all about controll

    none of them are good or evil
    and if you think one is good or other is evil, then its just 1 standing gainst the other
  6. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    Good feedback :) Look forward to seeing more like it!
  7. reefer madness

    reefer madness Account Closed

    This is insulting to the billion plus muslims who are peaceful people.
  8. Account Closed

    i am talking about the movment, not the religion...
  9. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    Both religions have had their share of both force and diplomacy with respect to one another and other faiths.

    But that's not the issue at work here :p
  10. reefer madness

    reefer madness Account Closed

    This reminds me of the omnipotence paradox. Could an omnipotent being create a stone so heavy that even that being could not lift it?
  11. Neverhappyalwayssad

    Neverhappyalwayssad Well-Known Member

    Ever hear God is A: Powerless
    B: Evil
    C: Uncaring?
    Imagin a 12 girl being raped or something else horrible and disgusting and makes ur stomach turn and look at ti this way
    A: Powerless, God couldn't do anything so therefore he is powerless
    B: Evil because he allowed it to happen even though he could have stopped it
    C: Didn't give a shit.

    now u may ask why did i post that, but Im trying to understand how God does anything good, bad or wrong or whatever. So far he hasn't done anything that I can see.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2009
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    Deleted my post... nowt wrong with it but my line of thinking has reached a conclusion that perhaps shouldn't be posted here.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2009
  13. xtcLars

    xtcLars Member

    With faith and love in your spirit pray the rosary for the questions you have god will be there for you just give it some time.

    God lets us know evil by evil actions. Stalin was evil because he killed millions of people, like hitler too. Some say that these people were demon posessed, others say they were justified.

    One gift from god is freewill, we cant dictate how one should live his life, freewill is more important than the orders of a master. God did not only give us freewill he gave everything with spirit freewill, the choice to be with god or to be with ourself. Most of us choose to be with god, as his love is hard to ignore. But we still have freewill to live evil if we please, and god wont step in the way. You cant say that god is evil because we are evil, its our freewill that is evil becaue we has individuals have chosen that path.

    You can also think of it as, if there was no freewill what would be the purpose of our exsistence? You quickly see that there is no purpose for us, no reason to really be here other than to live for god. You will always find evil people, atheist and those types, but just try to ignore their lessons as their lessons are ment to destroy. Try to think about lessons that prosper you, and mold you into a better person.

    I know im confusing and probably no help, so thats why you need to pray with faith for your answers, they will come if you want them too.
  14. max0718

    max0718 Well-Known Member

    Giving someone a choice between "do what I tell you or go to hell" is not or doesn't even resemble free will. I am an agnostic atheist, and I was a Christian, but I don't agree with many many things in the Bible and there are numerous other reasons why I'm not a Christian anymore.

    Don't make generalizations which you can't support. What about atheists in particular are evil to you? The fact that they don't agree with you on the existence of a God? Because that is the single biggest difference between a Christian and an atheist. Most atheists still have principles similar to Christians. They just follow their own principles and not that specified in a book.

    So please, respect other people's beliefs like you expect them to respect yours.
  15. Xaos

    Xaos Well-Known Member

    What about deadly virus', diseases, tumours, natural disasters and other evil/bad things that are (for now at least) not under human control?

    Where is the all loving God then?
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