Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by Tom88, Jun 18, 2008.


Complete Ignorance, or Complete Knowledge?

Poll closed Jul 6, 2008.
  1. Complete Ignorance

    2 vote(s)
  2. Complete Knowledge

    11 vote(s)
  3. Couldnt decide

    4 vote(s)
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  1. Tom88

    Tom88 Member

    Ok so I was discussing reality with my good friend and he said something that has been on my mind ever since. He told me that there is no way to prove anything is real. Well I went a little bit ahead of him to say that while you can see something with your eyes, that doesnt neccessarily make it true, or real. Such as an apple, you look at an apple, it looks red (unless your like colorblind), BUT how do we know that it is not our own mind TELLING us that its red when in fact it could be a color unimaginable? So that would mean that the red we see is just a perceived image in our mind, but theres no way to tell the truth. Also how can we prove that the apple actually exists? Sure you can feel it and see it, but how do we know that this is not yet another illusion made up by our mind. So in essence were at the mercy of our own minds perception per say. Sure we can say that to say the apple exists because I see it and feel it no matter what but that would be pure ignorance... but truely so much better. The fact that the apple exists can be neither proved nor disproved and to say that one is true is chosen ignorance. I once had a friend (since then this assholes moved to alaska without leaving a phone number or anything), who would debate with me constantly and for a time I actually lived with him, so I got really good at debating KINDA. Well anyway, the one thing I learned was that he has a passive ignorant (is that a real term?) attitude towards everything. We once argued about astronauts landing on the moon, his side of the argument was that we heard it on the radio, saw it on pictures, saw it on television, heard it and was told that it actually happen, thus it happened and theres no doubt about it that it happened. My side of the argument consisted of the van allen belt and if you study astronomy theill tell you about it probally but I doubt they teach it in high schools, and the fact that not me nor him could prove or disprove that it actually happened because we werent there physicially (ive come quite a long way in theory forming from here for sure) and that saying that it was one or the other was chosen ignorance as ive said before. I could go on and on forever about this but I think for one I have given two superb examples and now would like to hear a bit of oppinion and I have a poll which im about to explain.

    Ignorance: the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

    Chosen Ignorance: the state or fact of KNOWINGLY being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

    Knowledgeable: possessing or exhibiting knowledge, insight, or understanding; intelligent; well-informed; discerning; perceptive.

    Complete Knowledgeable: Pretty much knowing everything there is to know

    My question is this: If you had the oppertunity to have complete Knowledge or COMPLETE ignorance (not chosen), which one would you choose. I have to say though that ignorance would be peaceful (ever wonder why mentally "incapable" people are never sad?) yet complete knowledge would be completely insane, not only would you be bored, but you would know EVERYTHING, to imagine the thoughts OR lack of thoughts going through your head, its kind of hard to imagine, incomprehensible, but I doubt it would be peaceful.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2008
  2. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    Complete ignorance would just be worthless and non-productive, whereas complete knowledge has the potential to be boring as shit. So would I rather be oblivious or bored? Tough question. I am naturally curious, so ignorance is really irritating to me :)
  3. Darken

    Darken Well-Known Member

    The truth is always best to know, no matter how awful or disapointing it may be. Ignorance is not bliss lol.
  4. zzz

    zzz Well-Known Member

    There are two distinct realities of existence. There is the existence of my consciousness and the reality of the existence of everything else.

    Whilst everything is happening in the mind, there is also an objective reality, which our consciousness perceives through the five physical senses.

    These two realities are totally different and separate from each other. The only connection between them is through the power of thought.

    Who knows what the objective reality really is, but something is definitely there. The proof of this is that you and I and everybody else will perceive an object in more or less the same way. Without this there would be anarchy of individual perceptions. We can say that the world outside of us has a harmony and order that we perceive in more or less the same way.

    But there is a huge gulf between the observer and the world out there, between the subject and the object. The physical body is a truly incredible piece of machinery but the living conscious being is vastly superior. As soon as you leave the body then the body rapidly decays.

    There is a relationship between consciousness and matter and nothing can exist out there that doesn’t exist in consciousness. That rules out any idea that we have evolved. If we are not here then matter is not here.

    If you think you are a physical body then you have no idea where you are in time and space. No problem when your accounts are in credit and you are enjoying, but sooner or later this will lead you to confusion and loss of stability.


    In the beginning (not The beginning) there is complete wisdom. Souls have full awareness of their own self and a faultless intuitive understanding of the world they are experiencing.

    Physical bodies will be perfect and never become sick or diseased. Souls intuitively know how to look after their bodies but there will be no knowledge of the internal workings, blood, organs etc. There is just no need to know. Nobody would think to ask, there is only enjoyment.

    This makes for a sensational life experience particularly where relationships between man and woman are concerned.

    Machinery is designed intuitively and effortlessly and never breaks down. There’s no need to know why it works, it just does.

    That life disappeared a long time ago and now we live in ignorance. But ignorance leads to suffering and we will be forced to recreate that world. For this we have to become completely knowledgeable about both aspects of reality.

    Did man land on the moon. I’ve no idea, there’s so much deception in the world today it’s hard to find anyone you can trust to tell you the truth.


    Why do we sometimes laugh when someone trips over? It doesn’t seem an appropriate response. We laugh because we are confused, accidents aren’t supposed to happen. Something is wrong.
  5. Anime-Zodiac

    Anime-Zodiac Well-Known Member

    I totally agree with this statement. No matter what I would want to know the truth and have complete knowledge.
  6. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    :smile: I like the end of this. Well I like the whole thing, but the end is funny.
    There is much deception. Maybe we didn't land on the moon, maybe we've been on the moon for years before that and it was just for show. Who knows?

    I think that the story and adam and eve is symbolic for what you described and then we fell into ignorance. Before this time, we knew we were complete, now we walk around with a feeling of emptiness that we are always trying to fill but never quite get there.
  7. Testify

    Testify Well-Known Member

    Both extremes are impossible.
    As the universe is so incomprehensibly large, its status changes constantly, millions of times a second-it would be impossible to know that.
    And to know nothing would mean you weren't capable of existing.
  8. pit

    pit Well-Known Member

    I don't think -- I KNOW I'm not capable of existing.:hiding:
  9. Testify

    Testify Well-Known Member

    How do you know you aren't capable of existing without drawing that conclusion using thought?
  10. zzz

    zzz Well-Known Member

    How do you know the universe is large?

    If I waved my magic wand and reduced the size of everything by half, would we notice any difference? A six-foot tall man would still be six-foot tall after the reduction.
  11. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni SF Supporter

  12. zzz

    zzz Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but on the same theme.

    If I speak to somebody in England and then fly to Australia and speak to somebody there, I would see each one standing upright in front of me.

    But if I had very good eyesight and travelled to the moon, I would see that in fact their physical bodies were pointing in opposite directions.

    Physical bodies are objects, but we the subject give space and time co-ordinates to those objects.
  13. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    zzz I love your posts.
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