Thoughts and Questions ... Answer or Not

Discussion in 'Rants, Musings and Ideas' started by demuredawn, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. demuredawn

    demuredawn Well-Known Member

    I have been avoiding this site a bit, because it brought a lot of pain to me and I needed to find a way of dealing with it... now when I try to return to it a bit, I feel almost estranged.... and I have come to realize.... I have a lot of questions, with nobody to ask... because I talk to not many people at all anymore... so this is kind of going to be about those questions. Some will have no answers to be given and I realize this... others are questions that have a ton of possible answers and I'm unsure if there is really a right or wrong response.... others are questions of validation. I will trust that if you choose to answer this post, you are wise enough to discern amongst the various types of questions.

    First thing is this....
    People say "hi, how are you?"
    BUT
    if I answer that with anything other than "I am fine/happy/great/(fill in some other upbeat mood word here)" , one of two things happen:
    1. people get angry with me
    2. people ignore me

    question: why ask me how I am if you don't really care to know the truth?

    Second thing:
    People get upset at me for talking too much, and then if I stay hushed they get upset at me for not talking at all... and then if its simply a case of neither of us talking much at all (and yet each talking pretty much equal amounts just nothing really to say) then I get blamed for not talking...

    question: why can't people make up their minds if they want me to talk or not AND why is it it solely my responsibility to keep a conversation going?

    Third thing: (probably the biggest) If I said I want to die.... how many people (if any) would truly care (as in not just saying the words, but really feeling the emotion) ... AND ... why is it wrong for me to talk about my problems and seek out advice and discern what advice works for me and what advice does not?

    Last big thing: Why is it that only certain problems are thought of as being legit and not a personal fault of my own (or whoever the problem is owned by) and other problems are judged by the listener to determine blame... instead of just trying to determine a solution?


    I do not understand any of these things and it makes it very hard for me to open up here or anywhere anymore... so if you can tell me the answers to any of this... it would be nice and very much appreciated.

    Other questions I really need answered:

    1. Am I a person of value -- do not answer this one unless you can tell me why or why not as well (with specifics)
    2. Does my life really matter at all -- again, only answer if you can give specific reasons to your answer
    3. What kind of person would u say I am (personality traits -- give reasons by way of examples so it does not sound empty)
    4. Why is life so freaking miserable all the time and why are we expected to keep living even while knowing its just going to bring more misery? (If you disagree with this statement, thats fine, but give me substantial reasons as to why you do.... if you have true answers to this question, then give me substantial reasons)
    5. I realize I have borderline personality.. I do not hide that fact.... but why is it that fact somehow makes what I say less important to others and why is it that if I have negative feelings, its only because of my borderline personality or because of my depression.... can't it just be because i'm a human being with emotions and life isn't always a bowl of cherries and sometimes I need to vent too.... and sometimes some of those problems are not things that are just going to go away after one vent, but may take time, and a few discussions to pass?
    6. Will someone please let me know when I become a person again and not just a label or something to turn to when you are in trouble or feeling pain.... but if in fact i'm the one feeling pain, then I'm just an irritant at that point.... please let me know when that season of reality has passed away cuz I am truly sick of it and it is truly killing me ... but nobody seems to care, so its a moot point as of now.
     
  2. lautanner

    lautanner Well-Known Member

    demuredawn,
    I have only been here for a few weeks and I don't know you that well. But from reading your post, you are someone I would like to know better. I also suffer from BPD. And here's why I relate to you: everytime you are legitimately sad, angry, frustrated, hurt, etc. people automatically think that it's "just" your BPD taking control. That's bullshit and it's not fair. You and I struggle with our emotions and sometimes our emotions dominate us. It sucks, but that doesn't mean anyone should ignore you or get angry with you. I am struggling here too only because my expectations have gotten out of the realm of reality. I expected everyone here to be able to help me, when I forget that they are also fucked up in their own ways and can't always handle excessive emotion.
    Dawn, you are more human that most people. It's something to be proud of. You see the world in ways others cannot, and I know that is often the problem. I am hyper aware of the misery in the world. But sometimes I can be hyper aware of the beauty. Please stay and keep talking. I am always here to listen. Those last six questions you asked.....you know that all I can do is help you find the answers, the answers can only truly be discovered by you. I am here to help you.
    "
     
  3. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I am going to answer some though not all Dawn, and actually disagree some as well. Please understand it is all just observation and opinion and has no more value than the next persons or the previous persons.

    Any illness, disability, or disorder is that and nothing more - it is a characteristic to be dealt with, it does not define you as a person in any way. I guaranty that more people (even ones you know reasonably well) could not tell you what your diagnosis is than could. You are hyper aware of your own diagnosis (whether you agree with it or not), nobody else is. It is not because they do not care , it is because it does not matter in the end. Some people get along most of the time and some personalities mix like oil and water , and NOBODY gets along all the time or agrees about everything. In the case of a diagnosis like a personality disorder a certain obligation falls on the person with that disorder to analyse things from a certain perspective. If a person has depression they can believe that everything in the world sucks and always has because that is their mood or they can accept that depression is clouding their judgement. A person with diabetes can accept they cannot eat ice cream and cake or they can eat it and become very sick. I can choose to take my blood pressure pills every day or decide since blood pressure is good today not take them and suffer consequences. That is the reality we all live in - we can harp and call it unfair and be pissed but it will change nothing. For personality disorders you can choose to believe that everybody else is wrong and slighting you , or you can pause after the initial burst of emotion and analyse and accept that perhaps they are not actually slighting you and is is simply the way you perceive or feel things sometimes. That does not mean in every case but it is a reasonable bet it is relatively frequent. On that basis consider the following and analyse your thoughts, feelings and questions from above -


    So while i am certainly not in any way discounting any particular incident you might be referring to, I would say it is a good bet that if you have had a clinical dx by a professional of BPD that it is clear some of your thoughts or feelings are directly related to that dx and trying to separate them is going to be fruitless. Instead of focusing on the feelings which you cannot help - feelings are feelings - it may be better to focus on the possibility that they are not all founded and instead focus on the times you feel or have felt support and disregard as irrelevant the times you do not. The fact is whether you are correct or it is simply a matter of perception, things having a negative effect on you can either be let go of and allowed to go by , or they can be clung to and become a focus. Clearly allowing that to become a focus does no good.

    So far as people getting upset if you talk too much or talk too little? So what? If you want to talk then talk , if you do not want to talk then do not. Just like you have the option to talk or not, they have the option to listen or not. There is no social contract for that exists in the world to dictate when or who anybody should talk to or listen to. If it is mutually beneficial then it will occur- if it is not then one or the other will either stop talking or stop listening. That does not make either person wrong - it is life. And anytime something does not have balance for two people in any engagement or relationship the person that is not getting what they need from it owes it to themselves to end it - whether it is a simple casual conversation or a 30 year relationship. The fact that a person discontinues a conversation or relationship when it no longer is mutually helpful does not make them a bad person any more than the person that was wanting more for wanting more. But there was no longer a mutual benefit or goal and anything after that is pretending anyway.

    Advice is a tricky one. Most people do not want advice - at all. They want people to agree with them. I will use my daughter as an example - she complains I do not ever talk with her about important things but if we actually discuss that comment it is clear that what she calls talking is if I agree- if I disagree then I am not "listening". If you are - as you stated -seeking advice and trying to discern what advice will work for you then that is good - but being offended by the advice you decide will not work for you is not justified. Take it or not, but claiming it is bad advice and wont work for you out of hand is not right. The simple fact that you have tried what you believe works for you for years and years and yet you are here saying nothing ever changes and should give up might actually imply that listening to the advice you have decided already will work for you and dismissing the other advice as from "people that do not understand or care" is possibly erroneous. If in 39 years of looking at it one way has not resulted in a satisfying life, maybe it is time to seriously consider that other advice- maybe not, but just possibly it is. You cannot ask for advice then be upset at what you receive - you can choose to disregard it or decide that it is not for you , but that does not make the giver of that advice wrong in any way. If you want only to have people agree with you then by all means simply state "I am not intending to do anything different - I just want to vent my frustration and do not need advice to change it."

    So far as defining your worth and value- that is up to you to do. My, or anybody else opinion of your worth or value will do nothing to improve your mood or state of mind. I may refer you back to the clinical characteristics of BPD for more insight on that and why nothing anybody else says or does is going to change the way you feel. i personally see a lot you offer to everybody freely - but that will not change your own sense of self worth.

    Come to chat - talk when you want to talk about whatever you want to talk about. Listen to whoever you want to listen to and only talk or give support when you want to and feel like you have the emotional energy to do so. And forget about the people that do not want to talk or listen at the same time as you for that moment. People you feel like engaging - do so. If you do not, do not. And if somebody does not want to talk or listen to you then that is their decision and their loss, not yours so no need to be upset about it.
     
  4. demuredawn

    demuredawn Well-Known Member

    NYJ,

    Thank you for your response. I would like to clear up a few things though. First, I well know the characteristics/symptoms of BPD, and yes I have been given a clinical diagnosis of it as I think I have told you in the past... so there is no "if" there, it is just fact. The reason I made the statement that people say my negative emotions are all resulting from my BPD or my depression, is because after a person learns I have BPD or depression, they treat me in a completely different way than they do before they know these things to be fact. I am not claiming that none of my emotions are ever affected by these things.. but I am saying that even when they are.... they are valid, and need to be treated as such. Just because someone else views or experiences a similar or even same situation differently than I do, does not make either of our feelings any less valid than the other.

    Also, you seem to think that either i do no know how to discern what advice works for me or maybe I just don't know what bad advice is or perhaps that there is no such thing as bad advice. True, things that I have done in 39 years have not landed me in a happy life... however, some of the thing suggested I HAVE tried, and have landed me in worse situations.... is it not then safe to assume that to be something that will not work for me? Before you say "no, might just be at that time it was not a good idea" ... what about things like... "just leave, live on the streets if you have to, but leave" ... how can any person claim that to be good advice EXCEPT in the situation where you are in a life threatening situation at the very second you choose to leave? Or how about things such as "kill your dogs" ... that too is good advice? I think in 39 years, I have learned how to discern good advice from bad advice, I am sorry if you truly do not believe bad advice does exist. Yes, I do want advice.... or I did, when I first came here... I have given up that idea now, and ultimately it does not matter the reasons I gave up the idea, so I will not go into them. I did try a few things that were suggested me too... I dont know if you believe that, but its true. When I ask if i have worth or value, its true, nobody's opinion can be forced upon me, however, I would not say that it will not change my own.... it is in fact other people's opinions that affect me most of the time. Is this right? Maybe not... but I find it to be true, so right or wrong, it is fact for me.

    As far as chat here, I have learned that talking to and/or giving advice to only those that I want to ... even though it sounds like a good idea... is not one that works on this site. If I choose not to talk to someone than I am ignoring them, which too is not allowed on this site without good reason.... if I choose to deal with my own emotions rather than help others, then I am in some way a bad person.... if I choose to not take some person's advice as 100% factual evidence of truth that will help me, then I am just being a complainer and not really wanting help... and in the end, there is nothing I can do to protect myself without getting myself "in trouble" and thus further hurt. I will not put myself through that anymore, I will come from time to time as I have been, but I will not try to open myself anymore, nor will I discuss myself in chat.

    I am not angry when I say any of this... but I do need for you to see my original message for what it truly means rather than what you may think it meant. Honestly, I think that is one mistake all of us make when trying to help another at times... we assume we know what the other person's words mean more than that person does or why that person would possibly be saying those words (which is how we allow labels/diagnosis to become bigger than a person). We do not always listen to the person when they speak, or we have selective hearing in which we hear only those certain things that tend to "prove" our idea of why the person feels a certain way or what the person actually means.
     
  5. demuredawn

    demuredawn Well-Known Member

    lautanner,

    thank you for your words.... I realize my BPD is in fact the problem/issue at times, yes..... I just don't understand why its also the excuse for others not to have to take my negative emotions as seriously as they would anyone else. I also realize you do not know me well, as I started drifting from this site before you started posting on this site. I am glad you are still finding this site to be helpful. I did as well at one point, and it is a very good thing to have on your side when you can find it helpful/beneficial to you. I hope that will continue for you.