to women, I'm worth less than untreated sewage.

I don't know why they hate me so much and toy with my emotions so much. Literally, I'm one of the most undesirable men in the whole fucking fucked up world. I'm a 5'4" skinny 24 year old virgin whose never even had a real kiss much less anything else. Most women just toy with me and pretend they like me only to hurt me in the end. I don't even act like a pushover towards them, yet they STILL hate me! I can't act like a jerk towards them; that only works with the tall guys... if a short guy is a jerk, it is seen as having a "Napoleon complex." Being nice certainly doesn't work either, because in this crappy sphere of blue, kindness is equated to weakness. The only way I would be able to get a woman is if I literally just settle for one that I don't feel anything for just 'cause I can't get any better, or if I had a lot of money, or paid for an escort. Shit, I've gotten to the point where I actually admire these Beverly Hills gold-digging materialistic "I shit icecream and I'm perfect" heartless diva bitches... at least there's no delusions behind what they do and they KNOW what they want. I'm sick of these women who say "I'm a simple gal; I'm not a dollar-sign eye bitch and am non judgmental!" yet turn around and judge me anyways!

I don't even know why I give a fuck... I'm gonna kill myself anyways whether I end up losing my virginity on my final vacation or not.

Every single day of this ceaseless loneliness is just one more thing telling me "I should've saved up more of my dad's social security money and gotten me a mail-order bride."

 

One of my best friends, who recently passed, was 5' 5" and he seemed like the tallest person in the world...as I have said to you several times in chat, you seem like a delightful person, and I am sure, if you let others see that, there will be someone bright enough to be a part of what you are offering...I hope you know you are cared for here

 

The only time I'm even "liked" by women is when they smile at me and pretend to like me and then turn around and ignore me like the plague. I should just be exterminated from the face of the planet; this is just one more thing staring me in the face telling me so. My hope of getting laid or even getting a real kiss that isn't out of pity or desperation is so low it's embarrassing. Acquaintances and even friends who like to talk a lot of shit about me thinks it's the funniest thing in the entire world; I'm so ugly and short and stupid and pathetic and unfunny and untalented, so I guess that's a major telltale sign that I might just have to resort to paying money to lose my virginity; I'm so lonely in fact, I'm even toying with the idea of stooping really low and going to a strip club. No matter what I do, women hate me; to them, if I do, say, think, or work at something, it's automatically wrong 'cause it's me. According to them, everything is wrong with me and I'm worth less than a bad joke in some b movie. Sure there are exceptions as I do have a few female friends and kind acquaintances but other than that... it's completely hopeless.

Maybe there's an off-chance if I leave the country and get away from these mega-judgmental, cliquey, nit-picky, two-faced, bipolar good girl/dirty girl, gold-digging for a bit, I might actually have a chance. I'm planning on going to Japan before I off myself, so I guess I could give that a shot just to say that I tried, I guess. I won't take it personal anymore; I'll just take it as another one of mother nature's symbolic messages telling my parents that they should've stopped with my older brother and telling me that I should just kill myself before I get even more embittered and this world becomes even more Darwinian.

 

Oh man, I'd like to help you. I've been there. I felt like that. So much anger, so much hate, the feeling of being the odd one out when choosing teams for sports, where even none of the teams wants you (even though they get more players) because "he only gets in the way". But applied to women.

I felt like that when I was 15. I'm 35 now. It's still not solved, but I understand that part of it is my responsibility, part of it is my attitude, part of it is not even my fault, it's like "programming tapes" I've learned from those around me, especially my parents and siblings. But I have no answer for you except yeah, I survived with this for 20 years. It's tough but I'm still here. I'm still working on solving it. I still need to convince myself to leave home and go to work. I still have to tell myself to not snarl at women. I've tried approaching women and failed. Some of them have, as I suspected, sliced my feelings. Some have not. A couple of times, I was so near I could almost taste it.

I have learned, just not quickly enough. For now.

 

im sorry you feel like this and other people have made you feel this way. i sort of know what you're going through. usually guys always go for my friends instead of me, i always get overlooked and find myself questioning whats wrong with me. maybe i dont dress well enough or maybe its because i dont wear a lot of make-up..i dont know but it does make me feel ugly. my friends (small number!) say that im pretty but i feel like they have to say it. i have finally got to a place where i have a slightly better self concept. im 22 (and a virgin) and feel like i will always be alone. this is the thing that dreads me the most. i have thought about ending things a lot more recently but dont feel ready to do it yet. these women you talk about they shouldnt make you feel this way, they are just selfish and shallow to make you feel this way and should consider your feelings. i do feel pressure to find someone as everyone around me is either having children or getting married. but honestly i just want someone to connect with, and i hope you find someone too. i truly believe our human relationships are important in life.

 

I see that you are going to Japan. Are you blond? If not then I think you may find that you may have the same problem in Japan. Do not think that they are not materialistic in Japan. Japan is one of the most materialistic country in the world.

 

Dude, EVERYWHERE in the developed world is fucking materialistic; doesn't matter if it's Europe, Asia, Australia, or the US of A. Trust me, I have no delusions behind that unlike some crazed anime fan Japanophiles and I KNOW Japan is no mt. Zion. But to answer your question, yes I am blonde, but a very dirty blonde... almost brown haired.

 

I'm not a short guy; I'm 6 feet tall and relatively muscular, and women have always treated me the same as they treat you. You're afraid of settling for a woman that you don't feel anything for just because you can't do any better? Well that's exactly what I did. And it fucking SUCKS. I wish I had remained alone. I would have been better off living alone in a one bedroom apartment and paying prostitutes to keep me company.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, height isn't as important as you seem to think it is, you're not the only one who is kryptonite to the opposite sex, and DON'T EVER SETTLE FOR SOMEONE YOU DON'T WANT JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN'T FIND ANYONE BETTER. In the end, you'll be stuck with all of the negative aspects of a relationship without any of the positives. You will still feel like you're alone, only minus your freedom.

 

From a biological/evolutionary viewpoint, women are *****s, and men are sluts. There's no getting around that fact.

Women want babies; they want provisions for those babies; they want protection for themselves and their babies.

Men want to spread their seed.

Find a girl you are interested in. Discover what her definition(s) of "provider" is. Then find out what her definition(s) of protection is.

Now do those things.

She's all over you. But don't slip for one second, or you risk her dropping you like a hot rock for the next better guy to come along.... which, quite frankly, is far more likely to happen than not.

Use 'em, abuse 'em, and throw them aside.... they'll do it to you.

 

I absolutely agree with Thelonewolf. Don't just settle because she is the first to come along. A relationship is two sided and both should be treated equally. If you settle you will feel worse than being without.

 

I'm sorry but how does this help????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? It even gets me depressed that every country is as materalistic as ours and we are screwed no matter what. Really I just don't get wat you are doing not at all.

 

I don't understand what are you trying to say? How does this NOT help? You cannot make useful decisions based on inaccurate observations. Why are you depressed that other countries are materialistic???

 

What useful decision is there to make??? You want me to kill myself??? get to the point. Really the last question does it even need to be asked??? is the better question. I think your observation is inaccurate because its true that Japan might be materalistic but they also like Americans for the exact same reason which is different then this country where being american is normal. Really why not bring something positive to the discussion this guy is obiviously thinking negative and all you are doing is bringing more negative thoughts then he already had. I'm just glad I was able to point out the flaws in you negative opinion for the sake of TEHANIME!!!

 

guys don't argue over this it's not worth it we're supposeed to be helping each other. anyway all of you who have posted that they are being treated the same way don't give up you will find that special someone you just have to practise which means taking girls on dates then being the kind gentleman don't just pounce on them right after the date cuz that is what turns a girl off. let the woman get to know you first and see if your compatible

 

girls like men with confidence. don't matter whether you're ugly or skinny or short. You're 5'4. There are a lot of girls 5'4 and below. There are even girls who date shorter guys. People who get girls have confidence. If you don't have that and you feel you're skinny, why not think about getting in shape, exercising. Think about how getting a better looking body will boost your confidence, let that be the drive to get you to work out. Girls love a guy with a good body. But what's sexiest is confidence in a man. I'm only just relaying what I've read. And i think these points ring true, for the most part. Ugly guys get girls - but need to be confident. I've seen plenty "ugly" guys (they don't even dress well) with pretty gals. I always wondered how they did it. But you can kinda tell.. that the "ugly" dudes have confidence. The way they walk/smile/talk - it's not like me, for example: weird, lack confidence, unsure, not very sociable, not smiley at all. You should think about what you can change to boost your confidence... get a little more fashionable/work-out (toned body), whatever the case might be.

 

You've just got to ignore the snide remarks. There's always going to be someone doing that wherever you go. I don't know if they think they're actually helping or if they just get a kick out of putting other people down. Personally I see it as a sign of insecurity on their part - the class clown who loves to crack jokes at somebody else's expense is secretly crying on the inside.

Angela and lachrymose do make some good points, though. Like Angela says, practice makes perfect. You'll probably get rejected a bit - I know I did, anyway - but you'll get better at it over time. And like lachry said, it's more about confidence than anything else. I know you think your height is an issue, and in all honesty, for some women it probably is. You can't ever hope to please everybody, no matter how rich, tall, or good looking you are. But at the same time, I have known plenty of short guys who are FAR more successful with women than I am. They got that swagger, or something, whatever the hell you call it. Smooth talkers. Very confident in who they are. It doesn't matter if they're short, broke, and ugly... if they truly think that they're something special, chances are some woman is going to be attracted to them. Though he (or she) put it poorly, Leif did have a point - when you're down on yourself, it does turn women off. I'm not saying this to be an asshole, I'm saying it because it's the truth. What sucks is that the more you get rejected, the lower your self esteem goes, which increases the likelihood of you getting rejected, so on and so forth. It's a viscious cycle and one that is very hard to break out of. To be honest, I'm not even sure how I managed to break it, but somewhere along the line I did. I accepted my flaws, accepted that I'm never going to be Rico Suave, and went on with my life. I can't say women now find me irresistable or anything, because they don't; but they no longer avoid me like a leper, either.

Look... are some women shallow? Yep. Are some women going to judge you and reject you for stupid reasons? Yep. Are these the kind of women you want to be with anyway? Nope. So why bother? And why beat yourself up over it? It's not your fault, and some things are beyond your control. I know you think that you're hopeless, but there are probably tons of guys out there who are less desirable than you who have managed to do okay for themselves. Just look around... surely you've seen those couples that leave you wondering, "how in the hell did HE get HER?" Chances are, the guy has good game. He knows how to talk to women. I'm not saying that you can go out and buy a "how to" book on becoming a gigolo, but you can always improve your game. And it starts with you not worrying so much about the things that you consider to be your flaws. If some woman makes a smartass comment about it when you're just trying to be nice, then she's just a bitch, and you move on to the next. Don't focus on yourself when you're talking to a woman - don't think about yourself and don't talk about yourself unless she asks - and when you do talk about yourself, don't say anything that will portray you in a negative light. I'm not saying to be cocky - be humble, but don't put yourself down either. If she is trying to get to know you to determine whether or not you'd make a good partner, it's probably not a good idea to list all the things that you hate about yourself. Think of it like a job interview - you go in there trying to make a good first impression. Of course everybody has flaws, and those will always come out eventually in the course of a relationship, but the key is to get them to fall for your strengths so that when they do find your flaws, hopefully they'll decide that the good outweighs the bad. And hell, if your worst flaws are being short and skinny, you really don't have much to overcome in that department - that's something you can get out of the way right away and determine in an instant whether or not a woman would be willing to accept that. But you've got to have confidence. I know there's got to be something that you like about yourself. You can't keep putting yourself down because of what other people think about you. Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one, and we all think everybody else's stink.

 

The thing is, I know nothing BUT rejection; I guess I'm in the wrong for not just accepting being a fucking loser and live in quiet desperation in suburbia trying to lie to myself and pretend I don't want better things out of life. I don't know what it feels like to get approval... not just from women, but from people in general. If I do something, it's automatically wrong and repulsive, while if anyone else does it (and yes HEIGHT DOES FUCKING MATTER not that you've had to deal with being a 5'3 male that's not Asian or Hispanic enough to look like a racist for being hated on for height.) For example: I sing. When I sing something, people automatically take up issue with it; almost EVERYONE does. There's ALWAYS a shit load of flaws and it's apparently the worst singing in the world, even though I've been working at it for 5 FUCKING YEARS of my life and it's the only real reason I bother waking up in the morning, or going to the gym, or applying for a slightly less unbearable slave-job, or even EATING A FUCKING MEAL at that. It's always my voice is "too sharp" or "too flat" or "not high enough" or "too high" or "too many runs/trills" or "too plain" or whatever the fuck... it was the same shit when I used to be an obsessive 3-4 hour a day guitarist as a teenager before burning out... everyone ALWAYS had issue with what the fuck I did when other people who do the SAME SHIT as me and make similar or even THE FUCKING SAME MISTAKES are commended or cheered on a lot more. Same thing with women... when I have confidence in myself and feel good about myself, I'm trying to over-compensate. When I say something intelligent, it's boring and condescending. When I say something stupid, I'm annoying and must be retarded. When I say something positive, I'm naive. If I say something negative, I'm a downer. If I flirt, I'm crossing a boundary. If I don't flirt, I'm being too reserved. In any case, EVERYTHING I do and say is wrong in womens' eyes, while apparently, with the way they act and HOW they say what they say, they don't have a flaw on them and they are the end-all opinion to EVERYTHING.

I'm sorry, but I can't bring myself to take "dating" advice from you... no offense, but that'd be like me taking voice lessons from someone whose tone-deaf. Even THAT is a catch 22, 'cause the person I'd be learning from (if they WERE a master pick-up artist or whatever) would probably just use me to get the one I'm interested in 'cause guys are just as fucking evil as women; I'm no longer surprised if they sell out lifelong friendships all for a piece of ass. In fact, I find it hard to believe you are the same person that wrote the other replies on my threads.

Then again, don't blame yourself. I'm just a mistake of a person... frankly, my parents should've used contraceptives/a rubber the night I was conceived. I'll be off of this forum/chat soon, and then subsequently shit will probably get so bad that I'll be one dead motherfucker and I'll finally be freed of this life. FUCK LIVING; I'll leave living to those who are genetically blessed or are happy with their position in life; not gonna lie, I envy the people out there who have no thirst for adventure or risk for life and are completely happy with banality, mundane-ness, or even outright poverty. I have a few things that I wanna do before I off myself... in fact, I even made modifications to a couple of them (I don't care if I die a virgin anymore, or visit Japan) but since I'll quite likely fail at the risk-taking ones, I'll just end up offing myself right after I get faced with the rejection. I guess there's always that off chance that I might actually succeed and have a reason for living, but I can't say I'm counting on it very much... only in so much the fact that I really don't have much to lose.

I apologize if I said anything to offend you... if so, don't worry. I will no longer be amongst this site or even the living soon enough.

 

Wow, okay... geez, I wasn't trying to upset you. I was trying to offer constructive advice. So maybe I'm in a slightly better mood than I was before. I didn't realize that was a bad thing.

Still, you're right, I have no business giving other people advice. I apologize for trying to be helpful. Don't worry, it won't happen again.

 

I only said that 'cause you said you weren't happy with your lack of success with women and mentioned an unhappy marriage. How can I take advice from someone going through those things and mentioning essentially going through the same shit as me? I don't know jack-shit about playing the piano, have a very low attention span, only took one class in college where I didn't even do the final and am poorly coordinated with my hands/mind... would you take lessons from me?

Just saying.

In any case, I'm glad you're feeling better... and don't let me or anyone else make you think it's a bad thing. Just BE REAL and be proud of yourself for being real, if nothing else.

Didn't mean to snap like that... I'm in an extra-bad place because of all the bad stuff piling up along with dealing with loss... However, if you never wanna talk to me again, I understand.