Twilight - What's really behind that book?

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by Ordep, Oct 22, 2009.

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  1. Ordep

    Ordep Well-Known Member

    First and foremost I never read the books nor did I watch the movie as the mere general idea behind the story boils my blood. But I was always convinced it was just a goofy teen angst drama who happened to have this oh-so-godly vampire dude that suddenly every teenager in the world wants to sleep with. But then I saw this article and I was awestruck.

    I mean, there could be bias in there, I'm not naive. But as long as those quotes are proper quotes, expecially the last one about how submissive the female lead becomes, that's just unnaceptable as far as I see. Coming from a mormon writer, how can one not smell mormon ideas propaganda? Even the no-sex-or-mr-vampire-will-kill-me stupidity suddenly gains a new weight for me.

    So, thoughts? Anyone who read the book can comment on this?
  2. sinnssykdom

    sinnssykdom Banned Member

    I actually find that article quite interesting. Although i must say unless you have read atleast one of the books yourself you shouldn't completely judge it based on that. With that being said i have read 3 out of 4 of the books. By the time i was half way through the 3rd book i had just had enough of all the horrible writing and the person who wrote that is correct, the books are bloody addicting. I have the 4th book sitting around which i haven't read nor do i plan on reading, i know a lot what happens though. *Bit of a spoiler if you're reading the books*Also there is sex in the last one... well i doubt they actually went into the details or anything but she does have a child in the last book.*end of spoiler* Also not to mention the movie absolutely sucked im sorry but the people they chose are HORRIBLE actors. Specially the two main characters, person(s) who plays Bella and Edward.
  3. Ordep

    Ordep Well-Known Member

    Today when I was riding the train home, I noticed there were FOUR totally unrealted girls reading those books, and that was just in my section of the train. Luckly those were around my age so old enough not to be changed by what they read in a book, but I am surely concerned if the books do indeed contain messages of female submission towards men.

    Just typing Edward Cullen on google brings up a gazillion of fansites, each one filled with hysterical girls wishing they were Bella and saying they want her Edward Cullen, it's genuinely scary to see so many girls crazy about being in Bella's shoes.

    But alas, you're right. I can't judge a book or any other medium without reading/watching/Listening to it myself. and since I refuse to waste any kind of money in such a piece of garbade, I guess I'll never be able to pass good judgement.
  4. wibble

    wibble Well-Known Member

    I think the article writer, while their bang on about a lot of the stuff, is kind of missing the point about the portrayal of bella.

    Look at most vampire literature and what you will often see are vampires commonly portrayed as the most manipulative bastards on the planet. they did in dracula, salem's lot, a lot of anne rice stuff. Even the Vampire RPG (requiem) has a group who get off on manipulation, like its an art form.

    I couldn't stand the first book, same as I couldn't stand harry potter, but reading that article, it does kind of, for me anyway, give a kind of pathos to the character that wouldn't have been there anyway.

    there seems to be a market for a lot of this teenager supernatural bollocks, I'm going to write a book about teenage werewolves and see if that gets picked up...
  5. lonercarrot

    lonercarrot Well-Known Member

    People who bitch about this series are really annoying. I read the entire thing and can say there is nothing wrong with it. It's fiction, what more are you expecting?

    First off, not everyone is beautiful, only the vampires are. Bella is an average self-conscious girl, her character is made to pander to the average teenage girl who would be reading the book which is one of the reasons the series is so successful. Only the vampires are beautiful and I guess that's what people have problems with, they think it's not realistic for such attractive people to exist. But why would you write a book with completely realistic characters anyway? Where’s the fun in that? I read fiction to escape reality... The less the characters portray real life people, the better.

    Edward, the guy vampire, is just as in love with Bella as she is in love with him and he feels just as self conscious about his circumstances as she does hers.
    Complaining that he somehow has an unnatural control over her makes no sense- it's called love... She has as much power over him but the people, like the author of the article, always seem to leave that out.
  6. Zirone

    Zirone Well-Known Member

    I generally hang around with the sort of people who hate twilight and I am a self-confessed hater of the series aswell.

    After a while we all came to the conclusion that it was the author's fault for changing the idea of vampires from:

    "Pure evil monsters of the night that want to tear your jugular out and drink you dry and your puppy"


    "Not so evil, emo vampire that can actually go in light but only SPARKLES and can fall in love"

    It has ruined the idea of vampires being evil and turned them into something people should LIKE and not FEAR.

    Before i get massacred by all the fangirls i would like to say i'd rather read Bram Stoker's Dracula or go see Daybreakers than even indulge in looking at the cover of any 'twilight saga' book.

    My two pennies.

  7. lightbeam

    lightbeam Antiquities Friend

    Considering I used to be Mormon (tongue in cheek), the series is ultimately about morality. Mormon sense of morality. Their opinion of morality is reprehensible. It's any wonder why they even have the ability to reproduce. Sex is masqueraded as a red letter equal to adultery. I'm not suprised by this type of shameless pandering to the Mormon church.
  8. wibble

    wibble Well-Known Member

    Given I know nothing about mormonism, could you expand on this please?
  9. JohnADreams

    JohnADreams Well-Known Member

    I thought Anne Rice did that. Or Joss Whedon.
  10. wibble

    wibble Well-Known Member

    Not necessarily. While its true that we're supposed to empathise with Angel (and later Spike and Darla) because they have a soul or are brought back to life respectively, the majority of the vampires are still psychopathic killing machines. Did you ever empathise with the master, or drucilla, or the three or even that old vampire that nearly killed Faith?

    Plus, consider the second series of Buffy where Angel looses his soul, or the second series of Angel, where he just becomes a complete mentalist. This sort of move was done to really show us what vampires without souls are like, rampaging monsters.

    As far as Anne Rice goes, the woman is the biggest hack since hot coffee.

    As far as this thread goes, I'm now well at work with a book about teenage changelings, hopefully it'll get picked up and I'll be on the gravy train as well :sadpanda:
  11. lightbeam

    lightbeam Antiquities Friend

    Mormonism is a relatively new cult. It's followers employ various means to get you to join their ranks.

    As for morality, once you turn the age of 12, you are invited to the pastor's office for an interview to see if you are ready to advance in the ranks of Mormonism. You are asked all sorts of questions, including whether you masturbate or not, as well as other morality questions.

    Even if you do not know what masturbation is, you are forbidden from participating in it.

    This continues to go on until you are 19 years of age, where you are 'called' on a mission to convert as many people as you can to Mormonism.

    You are still asked the same questions, regardless of whether you protest or not. If you do protest, you are branded as disobedient, and unruly.

    Once you reach marriage, there is so much pressure to become parents, that I wonder how they even procreate at all.

    Anyway, that is the short version.
  12. JohnADreams

    JohnADreams Well-Known Member

    No, yes and don't know who that is.

    The majority of vampires in the series are total chumps. There's a hell of a lot of cannon fodder and very few real threats. They're Romero zombies, without the massive about of numbers that make them a threat to begin with.

    Angelus was always good though. :sparkle:
  13. Ordep

    Ordep Well-Known Member

    Ok so I decided that I couldn't keep talking about the Twilight franchise without having any contact with real Twilight material so I finally caved in and watched the bloody movie (I know the book is a better source but I'm spending hours and hours reading something I know I won't like just for the sake of bashing it)... Well the movie sucks bad... The acting is horrible, Bella looks like a freaking mummy the whole time and Edward... I guess they were trying to make him look creepy but it just came out as deranged and maniac as far as I see... and god was it boring, I do agree with the article I posted in the beggining of the thread, nothing freaking happens!

    But enough about the movie, cause I wanna talk about the story itself...

    Ok, first off I didn't think I'd be suprised since well, I spoiled the story for myself along time ago by reading synopsis and all that. But heck, I was! And it was by the shine thing. Everyone would say the vampires shine in Twilight and I thought we were talking about metaphorical shine or "a person is so beautiful it's like s/he shines to my eyes.", so when Edward stands in the sun and turns diamond my jaw dopped at the outlandish-ness of the whole concept. How does that work? What's the purpose? Am I really to believe that turning to a vampire changes the chemical composition of your skin so that light reacts in a different way?

    And btw, light. This must be the first vampire flick I've seen where vampires can go out during the day. I mean, I know we're talking about a mythological race here and there are no dogmatic rules, but at this point I thought it was pretty much set that vampires DIE if they have contact with sunlight, their skin doesn't turn diamond, they turn to dust. Simple as that. That's what made vampires creepy in the first place, they're prowlers of the night, they hide in the shadows. Twilight vampires just hide in the clouds and drive fancy cars... Oh and btw, I know I never went to the USA but is the weather in Washington so cloudy that you're 100% sure the sky is not gonna clear in the middle of the day? Because if your own disguise rest in the belief that those clouds aren't going to dissipate from one hour to the next... I'd say yours is not that good of a disguise...

    Then there's the superpowers, and this is where it gets silly for me. So the vampires lose their greatest hadicap (death if exposed to sunlight) and along with the usual super strengh and speed gain the ability to read minds and have premonitions? We aren't talking about vampires here, Bella was right for thinking Kryptonite or radioactive spiders cause this is a super heroes story! This could be the live action version of The Incredibles, only the Cullens, instead of using their fantastic super powers to fight crime... play super-human baseball and go to high school over and over again... what a rip off...

    As far as vampires are portrayed in films, I always tough we hit the top with Underworld. The vampires there are beautuful yet sinister, classy yet deadly, they meld among the humans yet they mostly stay occult in the shadows, kept to themselves. They show wisdom and resolve, you believe those individuals have being around for hundreds of years because most show the calm of someone who at least think he had all the time in the world. Edward Cullen on the other hand is no vampire. He's just an emo/goth kid with superpowers who can manipulate women like a pro. But I'm getting ahead of myself...

    Well, I could go on and on about the plot holes of the story (like how stupid the plan to run from the vampire hunter is, considering the odds are 7 to 2, as even Edward states at some point, or how Edward is supposed to be over 100 years old yet he still acts like a 17 years old emo) but the really thing that pissed me off was Bella, as expected. I'd really like to know what makes people say that she had as much control over Edward as he had over her, cause I sure as heck missed that part. Are they talking about the fact that he can't stay away from her? Well, I'm sorry but that's just her smell (I can't believe I'm saying that seriously...) it had nothing to do with her strong will or confidence.

    I mean, she's a puppet from beggining to the end! Ok, I'm gonna admitt some bias since I've read about this before watching the movie, but there's only so much you can blame on bias. Edward pretty much rips her life to shreds, almost gets her killed, admitts that at any minute he can bite her head off but nothing scares her away! I mean if I drive recklessly on a date I lose all my chances with the girl for putting her in harm's way and Bella just falls more in love with the guy? I'm a sucker for a love story, I'm a romantic to the bone, I read Romeo And Juliet, my favorite Final Fantasy is VIII. But when I was watching this, I felt like puking, because that's no love story, that's an obsession story, this girl is mentally sick and it only makes me sicker that so many girls out there consider her a role model.

    There is not one time that she stands up to Edward, even when they don't agree. The only time she kinda tries to do it is when she wants to go home instead of running since her father can be in danger, but even then all it takes Edward is a "You have to" and she goes "Oh, ok." Obsession I call! I was expecting a bland character for young girls to easily put themselves in, but Bella is below that, she's brain dead as long as Edward's nearby. And btw, how funny that the only time she does something on her own free is exactly the only time when Edward's not present to control her? (when she agrees to meet the killer vampire in the ballet room)

    If this series had any shame and wish to portrait the world as it works, educating the girl that worship it so much in the process, we'd see a sequel where Edward dumps Bella for being so clingy and puppet-ish, and we'd see Bella going into deep depression and realising it was a foolish and deadly mistake to go soooooo deep into a relatioship and realising a person needs to be strong enough to survive on it's own at all times.

    I mean, if I'm here, it's because I made this mistake myself. I gave it all on a relationship, I gave my heart and soul to another person, and then 2 years later she broke up with me and left me shattered. It still pains me today, I don't wish that to anything, and then I see a movie that elevates that stupid behaviour to something romantic and beautiful? I wonder how many girls are gonna get burn from following the almighty Bella and ending up on the psych ward from suicide attempts?

    I'm sorry for the big rant, I guess this movie struck a little closer to home for me than I thought it would.
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