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Two deaths in a row

Discussion in 'Grief and Bereavement' started by Fatatookay, Nov 12, 2009.

  1. Fatatookay

    Fatatookay Member

    I don't know where to start... I don't know whether to post this here or in the 'Suicide forum' or the 'Crisis forum'. Maybe it's best if I start here.
    I've lost the person I loved most in the world. She didn't love me back in the same way, but that's not really the issue here.
    She committed suicide in a very passive way. She wanted to die, because her little girl, her daughter died that same week, the 2th november. Amy, the daughter, had caught swine flu, and Ange, my friend, was rather relaxed with it all. She wouldn't die, her daughter, not she. It's always someone else who dies.
    My daughter had had the swine flu, a month ago, but she lived. Amy didn't. She died in front of my friends eyes, who had already seen her partner die. How her daughter reminded her of her partner. She couldn't cope. She couldn't move. She couldn't think. She couldn't eat. She couldn't drink. She just curled up in her bed, started sobbing, and faded away.
    Last week she died. I wasn't there.
    My friend lived in NY, Staten Island, while I live in Belgium. I couldn't catch a plane. I wasn't there to hold her hand. To kiss her, to tell her to stay alive.
    Another friend was there, and started skyping with me, sitting next to Ange, so I could be with her in a virtual way. But still she died.

    I've lost her.

    And now I find it so hard to start living again myself. I'm having a nervous breakdown myself, and the shrink set me home after I'd collapsed at work. I've been suicidal for as long as I can remember, and I've had my share of attempts. And now the feeling is back, stronger than it has been in months.

    I found myself searching for poison in the house, but I managed in stopping that action and started looking for a place where I can share my feelings, hoping for some sympathy.

    I feel so alone. The house feels so empty, and so does my life. I don't know where to go to. What to do. What to want.
    I feel like an idiot.
    I feel like a nuisance.

    I feel like I don't belong here anymore either.
  2. Ordep

    Ordep Well-Known Member

    Welcome to SF Fran. I'm sorry to see yo here for such a tragic reason, it takes a lot of strengh of will to seek help when you're hurting so bad. First and foremost, my condolences for your losses.

    I know it's hard, but try to remember something: your friend would have wanted you to live. Do you think she would've wanted you to die because of her own death? Wherever she is, she's rooting for you to snap out of your depression and move your life foward and I believe that's the best way you can honor their memory, despite how hard it sounds.

    Please hold on, and keep posting, we're here for you. You can always send me a PM if you feel like talking :)
  3. Fatatookay

    Fatatookay Member

    Thank you, Pedro.
    Yes, she would have wanted me to live. She was the most lively person I've ever known. She really got a grip on her life. Never moaned. But when she had decided to die, there was no stopping her there either.
    I know, she would say: 'get a life'. But I just went to the supermarket, and they don't sell any. Where do I find it? Where do I find what I want to do? Where do I find where I want to go now?
    My guide left me, and she never taught me how to read the map. I need her so much... Especially now...
    Thank you, Pedro.

    I have to snap out of it.
    I have to snap out of it.
  4. Ordep

    Ordep Well-Known Member

    That's what we're here for hun :biggrin:

    Why don't you tell us abit more about yourself? Your interests, what you do for a living, your current social life, family, etc. Anything you want. That will give us a better picture of what you're going through.
  5. Fatatookay

    Fatatookay Member

    Thanks again, Pedro!

    Ok, a bit more about myself. Should I write that here? Or is there a restricted place for that? Orbituaries or such? (Just kidding. Sorry.)

    Once again: where to start? I'll try and follow your lead.
    My interests. I used to be very interested in watching movies, and reading whatever I could lay my hands on. But nowadays I find it hard to get myself to a movie theater and I don't seem to get past the first page of every novel I touch. My interests seem to have died out, for over more than some years now. I don't know why that happened. I just lost interest. It all seemed to be so futile. I worked, and that was it. Which brings me to the next item.

    What I do for a living. I've done a lot of jobs, but they all come down to me using my imagination. My most recent job description says 'imagineer'. I imagine campaigns, tools, books (fiction and non-fiction), structures, models, movie clips, games, expositions, experiences, websites... But now I'm doing nothing. I broke down at work, the week before my friend died, because I couldn't cope with the stress. I had acted as a manager for the firm for some months now, during which I had to transform the company, sack some people, lead a seminar, lead campaigns, start of a new branch... The stress became unbearable, and I collapsed.
    Now I just sit here at home. Cooking meals, cleaning the house. Trying to cope. Trying not to cry all day long.

    My social life is non-existant. I have no-one but my family anymore. I used to have this friend oversees who I mailed often, and who I trusted with all my feelings, doubts and... love. She didn't love me, but she liked me. Actually it embarrassed her that I was in love with her, but she still liked me. Now she's gone, I don't have a person like that anymore.
    I do have a family.

    My family. I'm married. To a woman. Which makes me a lesbian, but you figured that out already, right. We have two children, who An, my partner, put on the world. Very nice kids, Thomas and Anaïs, resp. 18 and 16 years old. And they like me too, sometimes they even call me mom.
    Our relationship is not bad, but a bit shallow. An is very jealous and doesn't allow me other friends, or they have to be her friends too. She doesn't want me to do anything without her. And that starts to annoy me. I want to have friends of my own. But then again, I wouldn't know how to get to know someone, except online.
    I've been very reclusive up until now. I used to work, come home, sleep, and go to work again. For months, for years on end, even in the weekends, even in the proclaimed vacations. I'm a workaholic. Or rather. I used to be a workaholic until i crashed.
    And then my friend died.

    My suicidal past. I threw myself before a car, later before a truck, when I was 17-18, and I tried to poison me with methanol when I was 21. My sexuality, and being lonely were the mean reasons for that. Later on, I tried driving into a ravine with a bike - how silly - but that's mainly it. The other attempts were even more silly (like trying to jump out of a car on the highway, forgetting to unlock my belt first).
    Then I got to know An, and she made me feel comfortable. And whenever I didn't feel good, I started working.

    My main problems are my constant feeling of being unwanted, not loved. I always want to please, and so I do whatever I think people would want me to do. And in that, I'm a crazy perfectionist, constantly pushing the envelop so I'm constantly stressed, constantly thinking I'm a fraud, that people will discover I'm not as clever as they think I am, and hence won't appreciate me anymore. I'm constantly afraid I won't meet my own standards, or the standards of society. It's called the impostor phenomenon, I've been told.
    Angie was the one person I trusted. She could make me feel good for weeks with just one 'Lovely Franny'. She was the only one I could accept compliments from.
    I know I depended too much on her, but I didn't know how to escape that. She too wanted me to tone my love down, but I needed her. So badly.

    I still do.

    I feel orphaned.

    I'm on a cornerstone of my life. I have to find out what I will do with it. With my work, my (lack of) relations, my family... myself. And I haven't got a clue.

    I miss Angie.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2009
  6. Ordep

    Ordep Well-Known Member

    Ok, I can already see a big problem here. You're sitting at home all day doing close to nothing, that's no good Fran. You're going through a depression so you can't allow yourself to spend so much time with your thoughts or it'll only worse.

    You need to find something to do, something to keep you busy, and movies is no good, you need to actually do something, not just watch others do it. Look at yourself, is there anything you always wished to do but never got the time? Well, now it's the time to do it.

    Start playing a musical instrument, start your own novel (you can publish it online), start gardening, build bird houses or anything else, as long as it's challenging and you think it'll keep you interested, because you need to focus on something other than your life, thats crucial for you to move foward.

    By what you said, it seems you're currently unemployed right? If I may ask, what's your financial situation? Could that be causing you trouble as well? And if you're umemployed, are you considering finding a new job? I believe you should, as long as it's something you enjoy. As I said, the less time you have to yourself, the better.

    For the record, I had no idea you're a lesbian, not that it changes anything tough lol. In this crisis, and given that your social life isn't in the ups (and improving that when you're grieving is extra hard, I know.), it might be the right time to try to patch things up with your partner. You need someone to support you, me and the other users are here for ya, but we can only do so much. In the end, you need someone you can see and talk face to face, it seems An was really nice to you in the past, I think you should try being more honest to her, tell her how you really feel and how much you need her support, maybe you two can go out more often, have some fun togheter, meet new people, that would do you good. Your children aren't so young anymore, at least the elder can take care of himself by now, take advantage of that :)

    I can relate to alot of what you say about yourself in the last paragraph, I'm also a perfeccionist and I'm also very fearfull of not meeting my standards, but recently I came to the conclusion that it's better to drop our standards and live today, so that tomorrow we can rise again and then meet and supass our standards, then to keep struggling against the tide and losing everytime. Give yourself a break, you're dealing with an extremely difficult situation, alow yourself and your objectives so rest.
  7. Fatatookay

    Fatatookay Member

    Once again... thank you, Pedro. You're right. I'm only grinding me deeper with each passing minute. But not thinking about it... isn't that running away from my problems? Ignoring them?

    You've inspired me there. I will try. I promise. My guts tell me "I can't", and "I shouldn't", and "it won't work", but I'll listen to you for a change. My guts don't even seem to do their own job properly, so I'll send them to the bench.
    I won't write a novel though. I've written about eight books already this year, and it only brought me more money and more stress. Music seems like an idea though.

    I'm sorry, I wasn't all clear: I am employed, I'm just not allowed to work anymore. They have sent me on sick leave, or what do you call it? I'm supposed to stay here and sort things out. Thing is, I can't just go back, because they want to put me in charge, and I'm not up to it. I'm scared as hell.

    I did. I've thrown it all out now, crying and all. I'll work on this too. I want to survive.

    You are good, you know that? Are you a professional helper?

  8. Ordep

    Ordep Well-Known Member

    No need to thank me in every post lol. I'm here for whatever you need. See? There you go, pushing the envelope foward against the tide. Fran, you're suffering because you lost your most dear friend, how do you want to fix that? What will you win by thinking about it and suffering 24/7? For now you have to make your life more stable and fight off that depression that's threatening you, and you can only do that if you move away from the pain. If you have to call it something, don't use "running away", intead call it a "tactical retreat". First you take care of yourself, then you take care of your problems.

    That's great to hear! Ok, surely no novels but I'm delighted that you're considering learning music as it's actually my main recommendation, but I didn't wanna push it so I just listed it. I became a musician during my first major depression and it alone kept me going. The thrill of discovering new things with the instrument and progressively getting better and hearing the results of my hard work made it impossible for me to stop. I really recommend you give it a try.

    I see... so what do you need to get back on work? Do you simple have to call someone and say "ok, I'm ready now" and you're in, or do you have to take a physicological exam before they allow you back? Either way, I think this is a situation you should put on total hold for now. You're still not ready to go back either you want to or not, and you're not in the right state of mind to make the best decisions, so for now it's better if you focus on the task at hand: lifting yourself from that depression. Once you feel better, you can do some inner study of yourself and decide if your current job is worth continuing. I'll help you with that when the time comes, if you wish, but for now, just let it be.

    And how did An react to your confession? Yes work on it, I'm sure your partner is the best person to help you in this situation. But still, don't overdo it, leave her some space to breath and try to have a healthy relationship with An, you'll see that she'll support you much more effortlessly.

    That one made me crack up lol! No, I'm no professional helper, I'm just a 20 years old economy student who is suffering as much as you are and 2 weeks ago had it all set to kill himself but through some coaching from other members managed to give up on the suicide plan.

    That's what's great about this forum, we don't need to be pros to help, because we all know how much it hurts since we all feel the pain. The help we provide is not in exchange for a paycheck, we share your experiences and give it our best to positively support others because we genuinely want to help those who are suffering like we are. IMO that's much better than a diploma in this case.

    Take cara Fran, and keep posting, I'm always here for ya :)
  9. Fatatookay

    Fatatookay Member

    I was going to thank you again. I know there's no need imposed on us, but I feel the need to do so personally :) So, if you don't want to read it, skip the next two words: thank you :)

    That's a nice way of looking at it. I'll try to remember that one.

    What instrument do you play? Isn't that really hard? I do have a keyboard here somewhere in the house, but I can't even read notes. I did write some songs about a decennium ago, but only by humming them to a musician. It did bother me I couldn't play my songs myself... Do you write music? What kind of music do you play?

    To get back to work I only would have to show up, I guess. But they're very nice to me, and very protective. I think they really mean it when they say I should only come back if I feel up to it again. Sometimes they do send a mail to An to ask me for some advice. And An can decide whether she forwards the question or doesn't.

    At first she started to cry, but we kept talking, and then, when our daughter was home, we started chatting, each on our own laptop :) We chatted about our own relation, and how it somehow slipped away, about Angela and how she filled the gaps, about our need to see us as a strong couple again.
    When An and I started our relation, we had to be very strong. It wasn't easy back then to come out as a lesbian couple, so we had to show confidence. And maybe we got lazy along the way. It all worked too easy after a while. We started doing our own things, and being together was 'obvious', nothing to worry about. My virtual affair with Angela shook that up. It could have broken us... So can Angela's death. An was feeling sad for me on one hand, but relieved on the other hand, which was/is hard to handle for me.
    So in the end we both cried for several reasons. I do miss Angela, I can't wipe her out in a blink of an eye. I don't want to do that.
    Still, we kept talking till it became very late, and though no real conclusion was made - that's not possible, I think - we went sleeping feeling confident that we will find our way out of this maze. I still like An, and it might become love again, who knows...

    You're amazing! Only 20 years old, and all that wisdom!! I can't imagine why you felt like killing yourself? I'll have to look deeper into the SF to find what your problem was, I presume?
    20 years? I could be your mother :-D But then again, I would be a very proud mother!

    I know you don't like to hear, but here it is again, anyway: thank you, Pedro. You really help me in changing my perspective!


  10. Ordep

    Ordep Well-Known Member

    Ok, I give up, lol :tongue:

    I play guitar, bass and piano/keyboards. I won't lie to you, it's certainly not easy, but I think that's what makes it so good for a hobby. If it was something simple and easy to learn, you'd be done with it quickly, and that's not what we're going for here. When you begin playing an instrument, you're in for years of learning until you can master it. It will take a while until you can see some good results on your playing, but you'll be overjoyed when you finally manage to play that song that sometime ago seemed impossible, and if you're like me, you'll always be striving to get better and better, which will keep you away from your grim thoughts.

    There's lots of progressive books that learn both music theory (the note reading thing) and instrumental practice, its good to start with those, expecially if it comes with a cd with the songs in the book played, so you have ear reference. These can be mostly found in music store (not the cds ones, the ones with instruments lol) so thats a good way to look. There's also a few wonderful pieces of software you can get that really help alot, but I'lll tell you more about those later if you want. And obviously, if you feel like it, you can join a music school to get taught by a teacher.

    Yeah, I wrote songs for all my bands, I also have a creative mind lol. But currently I'm band-less so I'm not feeling much like writting, tough once in a while something comes to mind. Over the years I've tried to learn how to play most instrumentally rich genres of music, from classical to heavy metal, I'm actually transposing classic piano pieces from Bach to guitar. Its alot of work, but very rewarding, and I also love to experiment lol.

    Well, it looks like you're not so alone as you think, that's some good friends you've got there at your workplace, that's rare nowadays. I know I wouldnt want to miss on that :)

    I'm glad you're feeling confident about your relationship with An. I know both of you can work that out and make that relation strong again, as long as you communicate and be honest about your feelings. I don't believe An is relieved about Angela being dead, I think she's more happy that you're deciding on patching up your relationship, but the fact that what triggered this is Angela's death is what gives the impression that An's relieved she's dead. Maybe there's a small part of her that sees what good came out of Angela's death, but I'm sure An would never mean her any harm. I hope you two can love eachother again like before :)

    Oh, thank you lol. Well, you'd have to look deep because I haven't been feeling like talking to anyone until recently... Long story short, I have no social life outside the internet, an unhealable decease called Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, trauma from a childhood episode and I'm unable to move foward from my girlfriend who broke up and refuses to speak to me. It's alot of bad stuff, but luckly I have SF to vent and get support, there's tons of great people here, and I was honored by meeting quite a few, I hope you do to.

    It's not that I don't like it lol. It's just that you say it way too much :tongue: but I'm glad I changed your prespective. I hope you can feel better soon.
  11. Fatatookay

    Fatatookay Member

    That's impressive! Depression really gave the world more music then :)
    I like Bach a lot, actually, but then again, who doesn't. I'm not all that much into heavy metal though. Who knows, maybe one day I'll buy an album of yours :)
    I received my first keyboard lesson today in the mail. I don't think I'll be playing Bach any day soon, but I might as well enjoy fiddling about :)

    Yes, they are great, but they don't want to miss me for other reasons as well. I singlehandedly got them out of the red figures, so I was becoming an important person in the company. Too important for my taste... I couldn't handle that responsibility.
    I haven't got any other friends apart from An and my collegeas. The other friend, who was with Angela when she died, told me yesterday she doesn't want any more contact with me. She feels my pain is feeding hers, which might well be true, but there's some jealousy involved there as well.. Anyway, the challenge today is to cope with that rejection and not to absorb it too intense.

    That I hope as well. We went a date together friday evening, and it really felt good. That hadn't happened since I had met Angela, and though we still had a lot to talk about, we did have a great time.

    That doesn't sound all too nice. I heard about the CFS, but I never actually met anyone who suffers from it. Is it unbearable?
    I find it kind of strange that you have no social life outside the internet, with all your musical skills, your intelligence and your engaging studies. How come?

    I wish you all the best, Pedro. You deserve to be loved by non-digital people :)