U Must read this

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by unforgotton_man, Oct 21, 2007.

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  1. unforgotton_man

    unforgotton_man New Member

    My dear friends i don't want to start a religious discussion but i am so sad after reading few threads that i want to discuss that why in so modernized civilizations like United states and uk the statistics of Rape r so high as compared to other countries specially Muslim countries, indeed there r Rape cases in Muslim Countries
    I want to discuss why it is happening and we r quit and not discussing this major thing in media and fear usually don't discuss it ind daily life and with family members

    In my views there r 2 basic thing that it is not under control
    1) Our family System.
    2) the punishment system

    ok first of all our family system is so poor specially in Europe and America that our parents don't look at their children that where they are going ,what are they doing i mean check and balance on childrans which is see in my country because my parents ask me when ever i go out side to whom i meet and what i do in in my room etc

    secondly i want to discuss this thing is details
    due to minor punishments to rapist this thing is growing very fast and no one thing about punishment before committing it

    let me give u an example

  2. unforgotton_man

    unforgotton_man New Member

    Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

    "When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.

    She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.

    He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. And about the man who had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.

    He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4366)"

    Saudi Arabia today applies the death penalty for the punishment of rape and other cases as well. The following quote was taken from an article from CNN.COM regarding the punishment of a rapist. He was punished to death:

    "Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil producer and Washington's closest Arab ally for more than a half century, follows a strict interpretation of Islam that calls for the death penalty for murder, rape, drug trafficking and armed robbery. (http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/07/20/saudi.beheading.ap/index.html)"
  3. unforgotton_man

    unforgotton_man New Member

    Here is an article that I copied and pasted from CNN.COM:

    From http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/08/24/saudi.beheading.ap/index.html

    "Two executed in Saudi Arabia for rape, drug trafficking

    August 24, 2001 Posted: 11:48 AM EDT (1548 GMT)

    RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) -- Saudi Arabia on Friday beheaded a Saudi man for raping boys and an Indian for drug trafficking, the Interior Ministry said.

    In the capital Riyadh, Saudi citizen Dowaihi bin Mohammed al-Qahtani was executed after he was convicted of armed robbery and kidnapping and raping boys, the ministry said in a statement carried by the official Saudi Press Agency.

    Seyed bin Mahboub Amir, from India, was executed in Riyadh for smuggling an unspecified quantity of heroin into the kingdom, according to the statement.

    Friday's executions bring to at least 74 the number of people beheaded this year in the kingdom, where executions are carried out in public with a sword. Last year, 125 people were beheaded.

    Saudi Arabia follows a strict interpretation of Islam that demands the death penalty for murder, rape, drug trafficking and armed robbery."

    My dear Friends this is so important indeed their r rape cases in saudi arabia but very less cases becz u see the punishment i am sorry thisis not political discussion i am so sad after reading few threads and want to discus s a solution

    Thank you
  4. Fishman

    Fishman Guest

    Yes "western" punishment is extremely pathetic these days, in many ways they need to go back to the old way. Blame organizations like amnesty international. OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!
  5. superchick1234

    superchick1234 New Member

    unforunatly its not just about the punishment of those who commit the crime it's the fear of not being believed. i found that the police treat the victims like criminals and then you don't want to proceed because of the wa you've been treated esspecially when you are giving your statement. ok so i understand that there are those that lie about being raped and so the police have to be vigilant but the police are being to vigilant and only aiming to go for case where it is obvious that the woman has been raped and that is wrong!!!
  6. protonaut

    protonaut Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure that punishment is the best solution for the problem. Fear doesn't stop everyone, there are some criminals who fear nothing. Also, it doesn't teach a person empathy, nor does it explain the logic behind moral rules. It simply conditions people to behave a specific way in only certain situations. For example, a criminal may respect women when there are authority figures around, but he's only doing so to protect himself. When the criminal is camping out in the wilderness, and a lost woman finds his camp and asks for directions - what happens? If he has any true sense of morality he'll help her. If he's only conditioned by fear - he could rape and kill her if it brings him pleasure, because no one else is around and he has nothing to fear.

    If punishment is truly the most effective tool of maintaining order, then why have authoritarian regimes failed again and again throughout history?
  7. heartlessfaceless

    heartlessfaceless Active Member

    ok so i no this is a pretty old thread but im highly offended by the belif that rape is less of a problem in muslim countries.
    on the both occasions i have been attacked (once at 13,once jus last year)...both the attackers were muslim asian men!!
    now by no means am i a racist person,nor am i sayin that all asian men are like this. but the majorty ive met,act like its acceptable to stare at women to the point of making them extremly uncomferrtable.

    so before people make th assumtion that muslim people dont commit this crime as much as western countries,id check your facts.they might not be doing it in their own countries but they seem to find it acceptable to come to other countries and do it there!
    in england an extremly high percentage of random rape cases are commited by muslim men.

    so youll have to excuse me when i say BULLSHIT to what the original poster said.
    you clearly have no correct information on the people you so readily commend!
  8. Darken

    Darken Well-Known Member

    just cheap quick reply but. I think its cause in america people oversexualize women in media. They are too often mistreated and condescended by men, and the worse part is women just continue to accept it as the standard, and won't stand up for there selves usually. People are much more promiscuous than in the middle east. In america the majority of people have indecent sexual morals, and jsut go around humping many different people. Which a lot of the times can have bad affects, psychological affects mostly. In the middle east women are always much less sexualized than in the west, and follow stricter morals, and thats probably one of the main reasons their is less rape there. More sex ed that makes students feel comfortable to ask questions and not feel scared or embarassed, and two people being being educated ingeneral to develop more higher class moral standards; thats what america needs.
  9. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    WTF? :blink:

    First of all, if this kind of mentality worked, there would be no crime in countries where such barbarism is still practiced. Obviously, that isn't the case.

    The severity of the punishment (or potential punishment) hasn't got a thing to do with solving a problem. Criminals never think they're going to get caught so the punishment is irrelevant to them. Has anyone ever built a house using nothing but a sledgehammer? I've never heard of it if they have. It certainly wouldn't be the most logical course of action.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2008
  10. Hae-Gi

    Hae-Gi Banned Member

    At least there will be retaliation, then. Today's "punishments" of a few years in prison, when the victim has their life destroyed, is simply not acceptable. If they'd know they'd be tortured in ways that some cannot even imagine, I just cannot believe it would not at least lead to a little less rapes. Even if there would be no change, though, there would, at least, be revenge, then, and revenge is needed. The normal person sees it so that if someone does something nice for you, you should do something nice back. The same is true, the other way around, although in the case of rape, for instance, it is, of course, usually better if volunteers help with the revenge, instead. Of course, death should be utilised on the perpetrator, when apathy starts to show even slightly, during the torture.
  11. Hae-Gi

    Hae-Gi Banned Member

    At least there will be retaliation, then. Today's "punishments" of a few years in prison, when the victim has their life destroyed, is simply not acceptable. If they'd know they'd be tortured in ways that some cannot even imagine, I just cannot believe it would not at least lead to a little less rapes. Even if there would be no change, though, there would, at least, be revenge, then, and revenge is needed. The normal person sees it so that if someone does something nice for you, you should do something nice back. The same is true, the other way around, although in the case of rape, for instance, it is, of course, usually better if volunteers help with the revenge, instead. Of course, death should be utilised on the perpetrator, when apathy starts to show even slightly, during the torture.
  12. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    Perhaps rape goes under-reported in Muslim nations? If a woman is not a virgin at the time of marriage (regardless of the reason), she is "damaged goods", so the liklihood that a woman would report the rape isn't very high. Just a thought, I could be totally wrong.
  13. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    Revenge is stupid and does not make everything OK. All it does is sends the message that violence is acceptable if someone feels that they've been significantly wronged. And once again, if the goal is to stop crime from happening in the first place and criminals don't think they're going to get caught, they're not going to care what the potential punishment is. Most of them. Resorting to barbarism for the sake of reducing the crime rate just a little is not exactly a bright plan for success.

    Torture is what isn't acceptable. You don't torture people in order to teach them this or that is wrong. You'll just piss them off and screw them up even worse than they were in the first place. Not only that but you've stooped just as low as they are and have, instead, become a hypocrite. Torturing a helpless human being is immoral no matter what they've done.

    This is how hatred poisons the soul. And you can't blame that on a rapist or a murderer. Only you can decide to hate someone so much that you'd resort to mindless barbarism just to get revenge.
  14. Shogun

    Shogun Well-Known Member

    You didn't read the whole thread, did you? He's not saying that Muslim men don't have the urge to rape, he's saying that they deal with their rapists in a much harsher way (IE: Chopping off their heads and stoning them to death in public) than we do. He's saying that if we administered the same kinds of punishments here, that high rape statistics would be a thing of the past. (Also, I'm sorry that you have been attacted twice.)

    But Mr OP, the thing is, we would never import your barbaric and inhumane rules over to our countries. You don't solve your problems by stoning them to death. To support the death penalty is one thing, like they do in some states of USA, but like in those states, they do it humanely by lethal injection. You also neglect to mention another reason why rape rates are so low in Muslim nations, the Hijab (Burkha.) Covering your women from head to toe is supposed to prevent rape also. I've heard countless Muslims tell me that the reason why our women get raped so much is because they dress like sluts. I love the way Muslims look down their noses on the rest of the world, it's fantastic, especially when you actually take a close look at how they run things in these Muslim countries.

    Islam has very backwards beliefs, they still believe in beating women and child marriage. Here's the exact verse from the Qur'an that commands men to beat their disobedient wives...

    Muslim women are treated like second-class citizens in Islam. This is true even in our countries in the west.

    I agree that we need to get tougher with rapists and paedophiles and I'm not totally against the death penalty, but stoning them to death and beheading them is beyond barbaric. The idea is so backwards it should be living in a cave! And you stone to death drug traffickers and armed robbers? They're bad people admittedly, but the death penalty shouldn't be considered for them, this is the 21st century, not the 1st. My half brother (convicted of armed robbery) would be dead if you had your way.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2008
  15. JohnADreams

    JohnADreams Well-Known Member

    I've heard things like this before, that a woman's testimony carries no weight in some Arab countries and the crimes they report must be backed by a male witness. If this is true, then no wonder there is a lower rate of reported sexual abuse and successful convictions.
  16. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    well.. we're more free and men and women are 'equal'. with more freedom comes more abilities to express yourself and more ways to let certain behaviors flourish because they ahve more stimulants. that comes out in so many ways, but thats my gist of it.

    it's hard, society is a very very general overview of law and control. even though it's specific to a degree, those specifications are really general, but as a society, we are not educated enough(aware enough, or perceptive enough) to go deeper and make pivital standing points yet that we can expand from. We're makeing our way slowly towards them, by brining things to the surface, but it's very time consumeing. it could take 100's of years for western culture to create mor effective laws in these matters, or it could take a decade... depends on who's guideing the flow of this current culture.
    it's so damn hard to create laws, espeicially ones that are sevre. they aren't related to the specific subject, but a matter of the whole, and every law expands and constricts a society in some way.

    oh yeah... REPORTED rapes. .. are women equal in most middle eastern countries? as far as I am aware, no. That's a prime target for any one who wants to abuse soemone, and they have a massive shield, cultural and religious shielding. Sure fear works great.. from one persons point of view. To me, fear is patheitic. All you are doing is makeing someone with evil intentions harbour them in secret and potentially giving them a stimulatn to be more cuning and desisve about performing their desire. Fear works to a point, but at the end of the day, if someone wants something, they'll go for it.

    and you know what, i think our culture addresses these feelings, the things these people do more. it's brough it to the surface and shoved it in our face so much that we do address it more than a general term of 'evil'. we see factors, we can begin to find the roots of some of these peoples twsited desires. how they manifest and become what they become.
    the more we understand it becomes increasingly difficult to put harsh punishment on these people. we see them more as people with twisted aspects. we see certain behaviors that lead to these insane impules and desires, and to ..... meh

    just.. men are men. no matter what culture they are in. women are women, no matter what culture they are in when you bring them down to their deep feelings and desires.

    I don't really think executing rapists would have a major effect in the matter. for a time, people with those desires would be warey of doing it for fear of dying. just you wait until their urges become stronger than their fear of dying. guess it's a deterant. Plus, in western culture, you're applying a new expansion on how we perceive and define life, based on what sort of pain warrents death. .. donno, it's a quick fear tactic that would be abused so badly in western culture, and even indirectly abuse innocent people for subjection of fear they might be subjected to(by themself or others).
    North america is still so uptight about sex, that law over here would just be bad all around. our understanding and acceptance of our bodies and freedom to dwell in sexual environments would be seriously hindered.

    just on a flip side, for those who abuse the act of reporting rape. for the victims of false accusations of rape, it would be 100 trillion times more frightening when someone screams 'you raped me' when the punishment is death. That's a powerful tool. .. though i don't really like looking at a law like this, it's for protecting the victims. But that's a potential for a perversion of a law like that. it can create a dark imblance of equality aswell between men and women.

    :S.. though if someone raped anyone of my family, id cut their cock off
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2008
  17. Hae-Gi

    Hae-Gi Banned Member

    Yes, this is a very serious problem. The only solution is to provide a similar punishment, in regards to false accusations, as to raping someone, since it cannot be expressed how serious a false accusation of this kind is. Furthermore, due to the ominous risk of accusing someone of having falsely accused someone, when it, in fact, was the truth, it is extremely important that you cannot punish someone for, supposedly, having made false accusations, unless you are sure this is the case. This should, unfortunately, have to be the case for those standing accused for rape, as well, which really leads to difficulties. My ultimate solution is if humanity just ceases to exist... humanity just is too defect. I am deeply ashamed of being part of it. A peaceful solution, such as the end of reproduction, is the best suggestion I can give.

    Women rape, as well. Just because a man has an erection, doesn't mean he's willing. Oral sex, or merely touching, is rape, as well. Objects can also be used. There are, naturally, many other ways, as well.

    It really bothers me when people just talk about men, when it comes to rapists. In the Swedish language, "rapist" is, in translation, even called "rape man." Agreed, however; I'm certain it is more common with male rapists.
  18. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    Notice how i said person. it's an act of humanity, not of masculinity. I made a very big point to try to write persons. I'm well aware of our race.


    Oh i see, you're saying that in reference to me cutting of their cocks. Fair enough, but that was a personal example versus's a conceptual example. I'm not sure what id do to a women who raped a memeber of my family. same idea, just not exactly sure what i would do. I have my ideas, but to be honest, im dont care enough that to go into details about it, cause damn.. that's a bit more than words.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2008
  19. Hae-Gi

    Hae-Gi Banned Member

    I didn't mean to seem hostile; I just really had to point it out, due to the skewed, general view of how rape happens.
  20. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    for some yeah. sad part about that is for the person who singles rapists as only males has a messed up perception of equality. Though most definatly males are the dominate of the number of rapists, and their are reasons for that. but putting the reasons aside and numbers aside, it's a being violating another being.

    From that, I don't think society is entirely there yet in that. As you put, there is a cloud of skewed perception on rape, which stems from a difference of opinon on what both sexes have the potential to do.

    Guess that's going off topic, but I recon it ties into the topic. A society that punishes a violation of another, guess you have to ask yourself, what sort of society are we, or would you want.
    An eye for an eye society? A society that tries to help the victim recover, aswell as the violator.
    A society that punishes the violater too an extent, showing societies compassion, so it's a lesser than an eye for an eye mentality.

    I guess there are hordes of different views, but i think it's very hard to create law of action in these cases, cause, everyone has different perceptions on who we are and what we are. And most importantly, what rape does to aperson. what they experience, what they have to go through. For the victim and the violater. It broadens the scope, especially when we understand more about the victims. (I'm not leaning to any jusitifiction for rape).

    To be honest I'm not sure what our society defines 'life' as. It has so many general views it's somewhat amazeing we function, yet it's amazeing we're able to lift alot of our okder thinking and raise it to the general field where we can, on some level, accept we don't entirely understand, but we are doing the best that we can, and we have these laws that arent so definitive because we dont want to make the mistakes we have made so often in the past of defining something we don't understand entirely.
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