United States

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by normaljoe, Oct 6, 2012.

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  1. normaljoe

    normaljoe Well-Known Member

    I like to study political philosophy and Economics. (I am Austrian and Anarcho Capitalist but i vote Libertarian because I think you need to ease into a voluntary society)

    problems

    1. the US intervention abroad creates hatred toward the US and our involvement in the affairs of other nations is also terrorism.
    2. Both candidates Romney and Obama are both continuations of the Bush Administration and have no significant difference. they are the same person.
    3. The Federal Reserve (central banking system in the US) creates perpetual debt and inflation which to say the least THEFT and counterfeiting.
    4. their manipulation of the markets and interest rates creates bubbles in the market which is then blamed on capitalism (Ironic enough) when in reality its the effect of easy credit and free money in the market place aka inflation. its the inflation that creates the booms and busts.
    5. it is no coincidence that the age of Fiat currency and central banking and the century of warfare were the same century.
    6. The United States foreign policy has not changed since WWI.
    7. You are not taught about the depressions and recessions before 1930 in school because before that the government did not bail out anyone. they did not print money. the Depressions did not last more than a year. (1907 scare, 1920 depression.) the Federal reserve caused the depression and the New Deal made it worse.
    8. War only damages the economy. it does not help it. WWII did not bring us out of the depression. there were mulipliers. Rationing made it seem as if consumption went up, GDP increased only because of military spending and unemployment went down because of the draft. in 1940 there was still nearly 17% unemployment. it was not until 1948, a slash in Govt spending and taxes that we pulled out of the depression.
    9. Abraham Lincoln was a HORRIBLE man. he was by definition and action a dictator. his own party hated him once he took office. He is responsible for the death of over 50,000 Confederate Civilians. The Republican party Deified him to get elected again and again, and it worked all the way until the early 1900s. in short the American people were brainwashed.
    10. Taxation is theft, pure and simple. No man may lay claim to my property without my consent.
    11. EVERYTHING THE GOVERNMENT DOES IS AT THE EXPENSE OF SOMEONE ELSE. FUNDING A PROGRAM OR OFFICE IS ALWAYS DONE THROUGH INFLATION OR TAXATION. THE COMMON GOOD CAN NOT RESULT FROM THESE ACTIONS. AND IT IS THROUGH FORCE AND COERCION (violence) THAT GOVERNMENT ACTS AND I REJECT THAT NOTION.

    The most important element in a free society where individual rights are held in the highest esteem is the REJECTION of the initiation of violence. - Ron Paul



    thanks for letting me rant.
     
  2. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    So what you're basically saying is to vote for Gary Johnson. He's already in my sights. It seems like things will stay the same though, or become much worse. I don't understand how someone could endorse a person who wants war. So in exchange for the unjust policies of the administration against other innocent human people around the world, he's giving you food stamps, and this is what Obama supports contend is the "lesser of two evils"? There is no dignity remaining in the majority of Americans anymore, especially when they acquiesce to evil as their acceptable form of leadership, and as the example of their country to people worldwide.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2012
  3. ACPhilosopher

    ACPhilosopher Active Member

    Those are some interesting ideas I've never heard before. What are your sources for these assertions? Where did you find that information?
     
  4. amk666

    amk666 Active Member

    Easy. He doubtless accessed some neo confederate apologistics that "reveal" facts about Lincoln that are or ought to be well known & spin them as the "real face" of Lincoln. Nor are they entirely wrong. Lincoln, like Martin Luther King to name one, isn't taught in such as way to do proper credit to the man. So some people are surprised by this information.

    E.g. Lincoln was a champion of the common man. He was a corporate (railroad) lawyer prior to politics.
    He wasn't a Great Emancipator, nor would he call himself one. His letter to Horace Greeley states his position succinctly & clearly.
    He did reign as a dictator, using constitutional emergency powers that not everyone agreed existed.
    He suspended habeas corpus for the duration.
    He was prone to depression.
    He was presented by the party as a simple fellow, a Kentucky log-splitter, when he was really one of history's subtlest politicians.

    Lincoln as "dictator" stood for elections in 1864, an election he thought he'd probably loose. Lincoln cast the war between the states in different forms, as a crusade against slavery, then as an effort to validate those who had already died (which goes back to Pericles, & has been the rationale for every senseless war since). Lincoln manipulated his cabinet officers & often set them against one another as did Austria's Most Famous Son, Adolf Hitler (now there's a horrible man for you) maybe you ought to be fretting over him rather than Lincoln;-).

    Lincoln understood that if the US started to fragment, the process would continue until it ceased to exist, having been absorbed by other powers, most likely back into the British Empire. He fought the war on that basis, & that alone. Putting it on terms of slavery was mendacious, but also brilliant for it keep Europe away. Lincoln understood that nearly half-a-million bereaved Northern parents could not have justice for their sons if the reconstituted union was to survive. Grant's finest moment, the surrender terms he offered Lee at Appomattox, were done in full understanding of his boss's wishes in the matter.

    Great damage was done to the south, true, with great loss of life. But the fledging south had to know there were two ways the war might end: either they win because the north doesn't fight, or only fights for a year or so; or they lose, & the only way for them to lose, short of an early surrender, was for northern armies to invade the southern states & crush all sources of significant resistance. This is how rebellions are squashed, how it's been done for recorded history. They had to know that.

    The rest of the OP's points are debatable, some even correct, but this business about Lincoln is paradoxically naive & offensive.

    Lincoln was our greatest president.

    Finally, it should be pointed out that many "Lincoln the Monster!" advocates are not only southern apologists, but overt racists that use their "caucasian pride" as a cover for bigotry.
     
  5. gloomy

    gloomy Account Closed

    Federal Reserves don't cause recessions, people do… lack of proper regulation does. If you have a central banking system and you don't regulate it, then you're basically giving them a lot of power over money without any checks on that power. The problem isn't the system, it's the corruption… you don't throw away a perfectly good watch because the battery went wonky.

    Let's take a look at one of the reasons that the Federal Reserve was created-- the panic of 1907.

    Why did it last only a year? Because the markets corrected themselves spontaneously? No, it was because a group of millionaires led by JP Morgan used their own money as a kind of bailout (not the first time he had saved the entire country from ruin either). There was no way for the government to fix the problem, so JP Morgan had to figure out the problem and then IN TEN MINUTES convince the banks to pump millions of dollars into the stock exchange in order to avoid a complete meltdown. But what if they hadn't done that? What if he and his friends had just said 'screw this country, we're moving to China'?? The government was powerless to act… there would have been nobody to save the economy, and it would have completely collapsed.

    The Federal Reserve was created so that (in theory) the rich couldn't hold the government hostage and completely upset the balance of power. Obviously the US still depends on the rich, but the Federal Reserve exists so that if there is a crisis, we won't have to beg the millionaires not to let us all starve. There would be a guarantee in place that the government would always be able to bail out the economy whenever needed.

    The manipulation of the markets isn't a conspiracy against the common man, it's a political choice. Every time there is a problem, the government must react and try to correct the problem. But of course, there really isn't any way to predict the future so there are bad calls and good calls. Some of the bad calls can lead to conditions that create opportunities for predators-- which is why we need to regulate MORE, and not less. If you can see that people are sinking themselves into debts that can't be repaid, stop giving them loans. If traders are using mark to market to falsify their earnings reports, outlaw the freaking concept. The worst thing you could do is leave the market to its own devices and allow it to make up its own rules… this is exactly what gave birth to Enron and the housing crisis-- the fact that the predators were allowed to set their own rules.

    People need rules to play fair, especially when it comes to money.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2012
  6. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    And yet people are in lines to get into the USA... some even sneaking over the borders. Go figure.

    I wouldn't live anywhere else.
    Oh, and Abe Lincoln was a great man.
     
  7. Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2012
  8. Hache

    Hache Well-Known Member

    There is nothing in that article that is unique to America.

    Whilst the rich do rule and have the controlling say, every post civil war capitalist democracy is appeased by the rich, the public are more powerful than the rich they are just very poor at channelling that power, it isn't well organised and often doesn't gather the necessary support or resilience to drive change, this is what the government is for. This is what democracy is, it wasn't born to give the public control, but to give them power against the ruling classes and this is why we live in peace for so long.

    This old 18th century democracy is becoming more and more outdated but thanks to investigative journalism and the even greater access to information there is a fight against the system, one to force change, it's just sad how slow it is.
     
  9. normaljoe

    normaljoe Well-Known Member

    First off federal reserves do cause recessions, its called the business cycle which is caused by inflation or free money. secondly Howard Zinns people's history of the US, Lew Rockwell. are those good enough sources for the excerpt on Lincoln?
     
  10. normaljoe

    normaljoe Well-Known Member

    Abe lincoln was a monster. He suspended the gold standard to finance the war with the green backs which were devalued by more than 50% with in the first two years of issuing.this is THEFT. (The Case for Gold), he denied the right of Habeous Corpes to citizens, through a representative in jail for slander of his policies, condoned the idea of "total war". and his subsidies to the rail road companies resulted in flawed manufacturing the railways which caused thousands of deaths. (they subsidized the rail ways by the mile and the terrain.) -lew rockwell.
     
  11. normaljoe

    normaljoe Well-Known Member

    lincoln himself was a racist. and it is a STATES right to secede. there was no reason for the civil war to have sparked, other than the assumption that guns were being run into Fort Sumter . fragment? really? as opposed to the harsh tarriffs where at there peak were near 50% on southern goods? Lincolns original plan was to ship all the blacks to Liberia in north west africa. and so what if you are offended. that does not give you any special rights. saying you are offended is nothing more than a whine. so what? you just schilled out what was shoved down your mouth in grade school. congrats on doing your own research. Sources - lew rockwell, Howard Zinn peoles history of the US.
     
  12. Hache

    Hache Well-Known Member

    Being racist in that era is not out of the ordinary, certainly not something you can look down on him for, he can't be judged on today's standards and especially not considering how prevalent racism in America was for 100 years after him.
     
  13. normaljoe

    normaljoe Well-Known Member

    Wow happy to see i am still generating responses. :D
     
  14. paulhewson

    paulhewson Well-Known Member

    Are you looking for the KKK forum?
     
  15. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    Your profile states that you serve in the United States Navy.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2013
  16. Underground

    Underground Well-Known Member

    People from third and second world countries would be extremely grateful to get in any first world country which offers them better opportunities, rights and protections. The USA isn't the only country which offers these benefits, but that is why they line up to get there and hop over the southern US border.

    You wouldn't live anywhere else, is that because you look down your nose at other countries and think America is exceptional and everywhere else is simply a tyrannical shithole, or is it simply because you're proud of where you're from? What is your point here?
     
  17. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni


    You have found the point in one guess. Very good! :p
     
  18. Underground

    Underground Well-Known Member

    But America isn't really that exceptional. Not in any meaningful way, anyway. Minus being a media power, a superpower and a military power, what does America offer which every other first world nation such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK, France, Germany, Norway, etc. doesn't?
     
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