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Utterly Pointless

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by eraserhead, Dec 27, 2010.

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  1. eraserhead

    eraserhead Member

    The title says it all.

    In fact, I'm pretty sure it's pointless to even post anything here and I don't know why I'm wasting my time. But then again, why bother doing anything at all? This is just the same as any other pointless/absurd activity, so why not?

    I've noticed most people on here and elsewhere say they want to kill themselves because they have terrible life circumstances. Some of them are exaggerated in my opinion, but then who am I to say? Honestly, I'm way beyond that. I used to think that my life was really terrible, but I've matured enough to see that it's actually not that bad compared to others. So why do I want to die?

    Well, the truth is, like most people, I don't want to die. I may say it, but it isn't exactly true. I just don't want to live, either. Not because I got dumped or lost a loved one or have bad health or anything like that, because none of that has happened. The reason that I don't want to live is because life itself is utterly meaningless. The only way to have "meaning" is to make it up (relative meaning) or believe in something someone else made up like "God" or "humanism" or some other meaningless abstract idea formed out of fear of existential emptiness. (I say life is meaningless as in "absolute meaning" and not "relative meaning")

    Still with me? If so, maybe you have something to add here. If not, don't bother. If you believe in God, PLEASE don't bother posting on this thread because I'm talking about philosophical issues that go way beyond such weak ideas as those which religion deals with. If people have to make up their own individual meaning and/or cling to make believe, then what's the point in life? Isn't that just more work than anything? How can life be enjoyed if you are trying to convince yourself it's still worth it?

    Like I said, I don't desire death. But how can I desire life? If life is truly absurd as the existentialists describe it, then how can we avoid the conclusion that nothing in life matters one way or another? If that's the case, I'd prefer to be dead and therefore oblivious to everything. I would prefer not to live a life that I was never given a choice in living in the first place. If random chance finds me here, then death is of no consequence.

    If you choose to post on this, PLEASE do not bring religious/spiritual mumbo jumbo. I have already read some of the top theologians in the world and if they haven't satisfied me, then neither will your apologetics. No offense. But if you have a well-considered thought on this, then I'd like to hear it.
  2. SomeoneElse

    SomeoneElse Well-Known Member

    I'm in both situations at once. My quality of life always has been, and always will be shit. I'm also an Atheist, so I can say that I honestly believe that I only had this one chance. Life's a pile of crap. If you have everything, good for you. If not, you're fucked.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2010
  3. may71

    may71 Well-Known Member

    I would recommend not OD'ing on existentialism. I think that existential philosophers may have some interesting things to say, so I'm not saying you should just ignore them, but I think it is better to take them with a grain of salt.

    I think that the existentialism and its popularity were strongly influenced by the psychology of post WWII Europe.

    I'm skeptical of the idea of existential truth and some of the sweeping generalizations that existentialists made (I think that Sartre once declared that one should always choose freedom over security. How the fuck does he know?).

    From my perspective, questions about our existence aren't necessarily accessible to reason. The fact that the universe exists in the first place defies reason, since it rationally must originate with something that had no cause. If the universe then, is fundamentally irrational, can we really be sure that reason ever applies? Can we be sure of anything rationally? I would say no. Rationality may be a useful tool at times, but I don't think it should be over estimated.

    Intellectuals may have impressive powers, but are often unaware of their own weaknesses. I think intellectuals tend to be socially isolated, self-absorbed, think too much, and over estimate their own wisdom.

    It is interesting that from the perspective of chinese medicine, too much thinking is considered a cause of disease.

    I think that the meaning of life in large part can't be found by thinking about it, but by experiencing it.

    I think that if you were in good health both physically and emotionally, had lots of positive relationships, something to do with your time that you enjoyed, and had your basic material needs, you would be happy. Life wouldn't make any more sense to you than it does now, but its failure to make sense wouldn't really be that relevant anymore.

    I think that the absence of your desire to live has its origins within yourself rather than an inherent inadequacy of the universe.

    You might want to try meditating, clearing your mind of everything for a set period of time. It might seem easy, but would probably be very difficult.
  4. Pienp

    Pienp Active Member

    Yes, I completely agree. Been thinking like that for more than 5 years. There is really no point in any of this. You woke up every morning to go to work, you will repeat it 50.000 times and then you'll die.
  5. doityourself

    doityourself Well-Known Member

    You have to make a point in your life. What do you want to get out of life? Then you work towards that point and once there you feel satisfied that youve achieved what youve worked so hard to get.

    I agree alot with what your saying, but then alot of what life is all about is what we make it ourselves. You dont want to get married then dont, you dont want to follow a religion then dont, thats the best thing about life and this world is that we are all differant from one another, and we can choose to do what we want, or think, or believe.

    Noone is going to knock on our doors and say here, heres your point, this is what your here on this earth for. Damn that would make things a whole lot better and easier but what would that point be? The best things in life is finding out and getting what makes us happy, what makes us tick. Maybe you havent found yours yet, but are you going to give up the fight on looking?

    I dont know if my post made any sense or not I just wanted to post that Ive thought your same thoughts many of times and this is the only answer that seems to help me. Im still working on finding mine to.
  6. eraserhead

    eraserhead Member

    Thanks for the responses.

    May71 : I agree that reason is inherently fallible in the sense that it eventually stands on nothing more than faith itself. I used to doubt that, but then I ran into something called the "law of noncontradiction" which is one of the pillars of logical thought. The problem is when you use that law to prove itself, it becomes circular... You have to take logic on faith at that level. So yes, I agree with you there. And I've tried meditation before and absolutely hated it. Most people seem to use it as a validation of something supernatural and to me that's missing the point and confusing a physiological/phenomenological experience for something more. And if I'm going to use meditation to simply not think, as you propose, then what's the difference between that and death? If I'm just supposed to avoid my own mind as you seem to be saying, then why bother? That's just waiting for death! Buddhists are like that. They are avoiding desire in order to avoid the "suffering" that is existence (in their words, not mine). So they rake gravel in a Zen garden, meditate, and do other routine tasks to perfection (e.g. the tea ceremony). To me they are just waiting for the end, trying to avoid desires. Maybe I'm totally missing what you meant here, but does that make sense?

    Doityourself: What I'm saying is that I've done what you suggest. I've made up "meanings" for my life again and again. But I don't want anything anymore. I wanted things in the past and got them and then didn't want them anymore. And now I don't want anything. I don't feel any satisfaction upon "achieving things" because to me those things are all empty. Like I said, my life is not bad at all. In fact, most people don't have bad lives in the US, UK, Japan, and other developed nations. It's this knowledge that life doesn't appear to have anything left to offer me that makes me want to quit.
    As for people "knocking on our doors" handing out meaning, you are correct that it would be still very problematic. It seems religion is exactly that. Because even if you knew there was a God and he/she/it gave your life meaning, wouldn't you just be living for God? That doesn't equate to meaning any more than if you said there was a magic fox who lived in your attic and gave your life meaning. So it would only make life easy for those who allow themselves to believe things without questioning them. In other words, a sane person would question those people knocking at his door by saying "With what authority do you give me this meaning?"

    Perhaps the only thing left is to completely exhaust whatever shred of pleasure I may still be capable of by living a hedonistic lifestyle. I don't think that will take me very far, but I don't know what else to do. Seems like most people live for novelty so maybe I'll seek novel pleasures until it doesn't yield any returns and then go from there. Thanks for your perspectives and feel free to respond and clarify if I've misinterpreted you.
  7. wannactb

    wannactb Member

    I know this sounds like the ultimate cliche, but I used to believe in a thing called "love". I also believed in treating others as you would like to be treated yourself.

    My personal experience is that "love" does exist, but can be abused in the most awful ways by selfish people.

    There are also far more people who will not treat you like they would like to be treated, than there are otherwise.
  8. doityourself

    doityourself Well-Known Member

    The "purpose" of my life changes every single day, like today my purpose is to be a mother. Tomorrow it may be differant. I to have a good life that most people crave, but is it enough to satisfy, not always. I still believe in alot of things, like love, happiness, forgiveness, these things may not be a huge thing in life like money, politics, or anything else we put above it, but its enough to make me want to see tomorrow.

    I also like to learn about things in life, I love to see underpriviledged children make it in life, I like to see abused woman make a stand for themselves, I like to see teachers get a real thank you from kids theyve helped. I think we all have our purposes in life, sometimes its just hard to find them.

    Yes you may view this as me living for others but its okay with me to do that, atleast today it is because if I didnt see these things happen I wouldnt want to see another day.

    So to answer the best I know how, my purpose in life is to be me.
  9. MikeAllen1973

    MikeAllen1973 Member

    I had an answer in mind but others have put it better than i could.

    I was single til i was 21 and although i wasn't jumping for joy i got on with it.

    I fell in love and had a child and was with the woman for 9 years.
    I fell in love again after being single for 2 years.

    My main heartache in life is now, after being in love twice and i mean really in love i can't function without it, i long for it all day every day and i know the old saying is you find it when your not looking but the lack of it floors me to such a level that i can't pick myself up to do anything go anywhere, everything about me suffers.

    So for me, it's not better to have lost in love than never to have loved at all.

    Perhaps you're not in love or maybe thats not your thing, we know religion isn't but i think something could be. And when you find it, you might not have time to think the way you do right now, having said that i don't want to be alive either, and it's fear of finding happiness and losing it again
  10. may71

    may71 Well-Known Member

    hey hello,

    sorry I've been away from SF for a while.

    There is more than one kind of meditation and more than one motivation for it

    From the perspective of chinese medicine, excess of any kind of activity (including thinking) leads to disease.

    I was suggesting it more from a practical point of view, as it seem that you do quite a lot of thinking.

    Actually, I should thank you because I hadn't done my zen qi gong practice in a while, and your post reminded me to do it!

    If I do this kind of meditation, I find that new or more interesting thoughts will come to me after (or during) the meditation.

    I don't really understand buddhism so I can't really explain or defend it, but I think that their objective is to attain enlightenment, which I think is supposed to be a kind of meta-consciousness.

    As nice as thinking may be, thinking is only one small part of what is valuable in existence. There may be other aspects of your existence that you may wish to explore.
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