Veil banned in schools

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by resistance, Mar 20, 2007.

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  1. resistance

    resistance Staff Alumni

    What are your experiences of the veil?

    Schools will be able to ban pupils from wearing full-face veils on security, safety or learning grounds under new uniforms guidance set to be issued.

    Much has been made on the debate surrounding pupils wearing veils in schools with a handful of high profile cases going to court. In February, a 12-year-old girl failed in her High Court attempt to overturn her Buckinghamshire school's niqab ban.

    The new guidelines suggest that efforts should be made to accommodate religious clothing but stresses the importance of teachers and pupils being able to make eye contact.

    Should pupils be allowed to wear religious dress in schools? Should individual schools make decisions on these matters? Do the schools in your community allow the veil to be worn?

    I think it's stupid. Yes the UK is a Christian country and yes we don't normally wear veils as part of our religion (well, I don't think of myself as Christian, but the UK as a whole) but we should respect other peoples religion and let others wear the veil, if they are forced take it off then I think that's nasty and wrong and disrespectful.
  2. ~CazzaAngel~

    ~CazzaAngel~ Staff Alumni

    I agree^^
  3. LeaveMeAlone

    LeaveMeAlone Well-Known Member

    I dunno, I wanna respect their religion but I suspect they wouldn't even be in school if that wasn't the law. So if we're forcing them to go to school maybe they should have to wear the right uniform also.

    Plus I mean I know that 2 wrongs don't make a right, but the parents force their religion on their kids so hard, they brain wash them, i think the only way to even things up and give the kids chance to choose. is if we push as much other stuff on them as possible.
  4. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    No, it isn't. It is a rare bit of sanity displayed by your country.

    Respect is a two-way street. If moslems want to come to the UK and the UK wishes to admit them, wonderful. However, I see no reason why any accomodations need to be made or should be made. They should be the ones respecting YOUR traditions, not the other way 'round. After all, they left countries where they could, hell, I believe were required, to dress in tablecloths. Let them go back to whatever Islamic paradise they arrived from if it is so important to them. If not, it should be up to THEM to conform to the society where they find themselves.

    But, oh, wait, let's ban the ever offensive Piglet :rolleyes:

    I find a grown man getting on a carpet and wiggling his ass toward Mecca five times a day to be offensive. Can I get that banned? :rolleyes:
  5. letdown

    letdown Guest

    To trust the Sun, of all newspapers, to provide an impartial view of a story, particularly a story involving Muslims, is a bit far fetched to be honest. :blink:

    I'm not sure of my old secondary school. I went to a girls school where there were a mix of all faiths, from all around the world, including Muslims but I can't remember anyone wearing a veil (mainly because it was a girls school). I think pupils should be allowed to wear religious dress as long as it's safe- I think there were issues of some girls wearing very long flowing dress which were a safety issue. I don't think a wide spread ban is going to help anything. I can see the communication issue with teachers with the veil teaching young children but when it comes to students- the eyes are not always covered up, (depending on the veil) and also, others (who are willing), especially young people do adapt to face covering, however out of the ordinary it may seem at the start, and the veil can be removed if no men are around. I can see it being frightening and alien to some though.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
  6. reborn1961

    reborn1961 Guest

    Well said. I live in the US and frankly am tired of the question on the phone that says "press 1 for english". If I go to Spain, will they accomadate me in english? Most people leave one country to go to another for a reason so respect the country you enter.
  7. letdown

    letdown Guest

    How is wearing a veil a sign of disrespect for the country? Who is it hurting? They aren't demanding that the rest of Britain should wear a veil. Also, when it comes to cultural traditions, I don't think there is a cohesive "British tradition" when it comes to dress. If there is, I'd like to know what? Why is any sign of difference a threat?
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
  8. bunny

    bunny Staff Alumni

    but you dont live in an englich country, it may be the majority but what would you say if a native american was pissed off cos im betting they native language isnt even an option
  9. ~CazzaAngel~

    ~CazzaAngel~ Staff Alumni

    :yes: :agreed:
  10. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    Who says they can't wear a veil outside of school? Or for that matter a playboy bunny costume?

    Who is it helping? Like I said, if they wish to dress this way there're dozens of countries that would mandate this sort of thing. Presumably they're in the UK because they want to be there...well, start acting that way.

    No, but they're trying not to to abide by the school's dress code. If a German moved to Britain he'd be free to speak German in his own home and on his own time, true? But no one would expect him to be able to converse in German and have all his classes in German, would they?

    There's no tradition of schools requiring uniforms of a certain sort?

    Who said anything about a threat? I simply said that they should conform to your society when in a venue like a school and not expect special treatment.
  11. letdown

    letdown Guest

    A. If school is supposed to instill values of how to be a member of society then shouldn't it be fair that children grow up, with the small possibility (and lets remember only a small minority wear veils out of choice) of someone wearing a veil in their class and learn about them rather than going out into society being scared of them and not understanding them? There was recent national debate about veils worn outside of school too, a lot of responses were quite frankly, horrifying.

    B. As far as I'm aware, no blanket dress code in Britain's schools exist. Some schools don't wear uniform some schools do. There is also room for allowance and compromise when it comes to religious dress as personally experienced where I was.

    C. This isn't "special treatment" it is allowing for religious and cultural differences and expression. There are countries where this doesn't exist- like the countries they may have come from, for very good reasons.

    D. How do you "act like" you come from the UK?

    Sorry if I haven't quoted you but I'm quite exhausted and think I need a general rest. :wink:
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
  12. Edicius si Evol

    Edicius si Evol Well-Known Member

    Hence the majority of people on my school are muslims I always had several girls with veils in my class.
    Some of them even wearing a long dress and all belong to the veil.
    Not allouwing muslim girls to wear veils in Germany ?

    And I agree...if they like to wear veils..why not ?

    It is imo a matter of tolerance. I think everyone can dress how he/she wants to dress...if it's striped or dotted or if they like to wear long pants or skirts or whatever...everyone is allouwed to dress how they like and to express themselves.

    The veil is a religious sign not different than for example the christian cross.
    If you ban muslim girls from wearing veils then you should also ban the christian cross.
    Either religious signs are allouwed in a school, meaning everyone can wear veils, crosses e.t.c
    Or religious signs are not allouwed...meaning if veils are banned all christian symbols should be also banned and nobody should wear crosses or signs of the christian fish or whatever.

    It is as easy as that.

    I think people should be more respectful and tolerant towards other religions.

    And...I don't like it that people say here that girls are forced to wear a veil.
    It is not the least not with the girls I know.

    I know girls whose parents or sisters wear a veil..but they chose themselves not to wear a veil.

    I also know other girls whose parents and sisters don't wear veils but they decided for themselves wearing veils.
    I even know a case where the parents DIDN'T like the fact that their daughter decided wearing a veil.
  13. TG123

    TG123 Well-Known Member

    I think they should be able to wear it, it is a sign of their religion and I respect that. Of course I hope they eventually turn to Christ :) but I wouldn't ban them from practicing their religion especially if they are not harming anyone. My Christian fundie viewpoint.

    Cristo Vive!
    - Tomasz
  14. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

    I understand some of the reasoning behind asking for veils to not be worn in schools - such as the eye contact / non-verbal communication aspects, but I'm not sure that I agree that this warrants it being banned.
    Doctors in the UK are not allowed to wear the full veil that covers the face - for the communication reasons above and that patients who lip read would have difficulty. It is one of those situations where it is important to be able to gauge expression and feeling. However, that said, students entering the profession are fully aware of the requirement. I think it is a little different with school as this is compulsory for all children and there is no way of avoiding it, except perhaps for home education or similar. I think this could simply bring about further segregation as schools will have to make their uniform policies clear from the outset and parents whose children wear the veil will obviously pick one that allows it. It will be interesting to see how many schools decide to ban it. There must be a lot of chilfen who wear it to school with no problem as I have only read heard of 2 or 3 high profile cases - or maybe this is because schools ban it and some pupils simply concede or change schools and it's never really heard about?
  15. Wonderstuff

    Wonderstuff Staff Alumni

    I agree with Gmork. My parents and I have had maaaaany conversations about this *eye roll*.
    I don't think veils should be worn in school. By either children or teachers. Certainly not at a primary school level anyway. I know it might be different for those people who have a lot of experience with veils but personally I find it quite intimidating. I don't see a problem with the headscarf thing but I could see me and the rest of my class when I was 4/5 being really scared if our teacher had been wearing a veil! As if it wasn't bad enough being in school for the first time.
    Sorry, but Gmork is definitely right. The only reason we allow this is because we're a "democracy", but we keep changing and changing in an effort to keep other people happy. We're not even allowed to say "Christmas" on official cards anymore now, I believe. "Happy Holidays", it's to say. This is just BULLSHIT. Political correctness and 'tolerance' is swinging too much the other way now. Now it's considered that we're bad people just because we don't want people coming in and demanding that their customs are more valid than ours, in our country?!

    Sorry, think I got a bit worked up there. But that's just my opinion. Some of you probably hate me now. That's not really a bad thing.
  16. Abacus21

    Abacus21 Staff Alumni

    No one hates you :hug:

    And I agree with you and gmork.

  17. mike25

    mike25 Well-Known Member

    gmork succinctly expressed everything I wanted to say with his no nonsense post. In my experience, talking to Muslim women with full face and head gear on is futile. I can't make out their muffled speech. Neither can I make an educated guess as to what they're saying because I can't see their facial expressions. And I shouldn't be expected to adapt to Muslim culture; after all I am living in Britain. They must adapt to OUR way of life.
    This is just another sickening example of insane political correctness, and I for one shall vehemently oppose it at every opportunity.

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2007
  18. kindtosnails

    kindtosnails Staff Alumni

    So, if people aren't allowed to wear it in schools anymore, and I think I saw something about doctors, too...won't this just make people less tolerant of it. Our nation might be a tad too tolerant at times, regarding other people's cultures, but frankly the people in it aren't. What's more important, saving some national culture and patriotism or whatever, which I doubt we even have, or accommodating other cultures, religions and beliefs. Who said tolerance was a bad thing? And what does it say to the children in schools if we start restricting the expression of certain people's beliefs?
  19. Anastacia007

    Anastacia007 Member

    I think students should have the right to fully practice thier religion (whether it's religious dress or praying or what not) at school. They have freedom to practice religion, why should it be restricted at school??
  20. Jawa

    Jawa Guest

    A person walks into a school, nobody can see their face. For security reasons the school must know who is going in and out of that school. A person wearing a veil - they could be anyone. A-N-Y-O-N-E. Seriously, people could use some common sense and read the Quran. The Quran says that women should dress modestly - it is not about form. It does not say anywhere in the Quran that women have to cover their whole face in public.

    Sorry if I've offended anyone, but I've heard so many people where I live whining and moaning about it it's just ridiculous, I'm at the end of my tether with this.
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