Voluntary death

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by optimistic, Jun 20, 2011.

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  1. optimistic

    optimistic Member

    Hi all,
    I am in mid my 20's and have a steady income, family etc. I am not unhappy about my life now but have been questioning various aspects of life more intnesely.

    I have come to conclusion that whatever you do doesn't add up in the end and nothing actually matters. I am trying to look into this matter as objectively as I can. I am neither a theist,atheist or agnostic because this question is irrelevant.

    What is important is "whether there is any intrinsic meaning to anything here?"
    Three answers are possible:

    1)"don't know": I don't like to think about the questions which have no answers. What is the point in knowing if there is any meaning to life?

    Argument: Suppose if you have got information that somebody trying to kill you, wouldn't you wonder who is he and why is he trying to kill me? Similarly, you will be thrown out of existence soon enough , shouldn't you look out for reasons?

    2)"yes": Look at all those family/friends/great personalities that have made life more happy and a great place to live in.
    Argument: I agree that they have made our life more "comfortable" but certainly not any meaningful. And it doesn't make any difference to existence if you are dead/alive.

    3)"no" : because everything here is temporary and eventually would be wiped off. One may say why not savor this moment until you are dead.
    Argument:why not meet the final fate now itself ?

    With these arguments, I am not neither objecting or supporting suicide. Because for me,living equals dying.

    I am thinking of ending my life not just because I don't want to live. But, I am in full consciousness accepting death as an option. And, I don't think anyone would have objection in this voluntary death.

    So,just want to verify that if there is any crucial point I have missed out?

  2. me myself and i

    me myself and i Account Closed

    Perhaps we have to look at today, not tomorrow.
    Its what we do to make our life content in the present, because tomorrow never comes.
    For me, its about doing the things that make myself content and trying to be aware that others can gain this from me too, if i choose to give it.
    I have no idea if we live another life when we leave here, personally i think we are organic and just become a chemical reaction when we no longer breathe.
    So, i look to enriching my own life and its the little things i do today, that makes tomorrow that bit better.
    I know that my love for my children and a definite desire for them to have happiness, gives me hope for myself. Deep within, i wish for many years to balance out the ones where i either messed up, or had it messed up for me.
    Like everyone, i deserve contentment, but i guess its down to me if i choose it or not.
    So, we have a choice.
    Its a simple one really, multi-choice, if you will.
    Only two things are certain in this world.......... and i mean two things...............change and death.
    I will choose the former.
  3. roksy

    roksy Well-Known Member

    Why didn't I think of that when I was a kid trying to sleep and I kept on thinking about what will happen if the ozone layer kept expanding, nostrodamus' prophecy were true and if the year 2000 was the end of the world?

    Nice thesis.
  4. oxygenidia

    oxygenidia Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't say no to finding out if there is any meaning to life. I'm personally leaning towards thinking there is no meaning to our existance, but I don't think that is a reason to not make the best of what we have and prevent suffering where we can.
    If I found out there was absolutely no meaning to my life I would still want to be as healthy and comfortable as possible for the time I was alive. If I was living in pain I would rather be dead.
  5. optimistic

    optimistic Member

    That was exactly the point of posting. As a matter of choice, I will choose second option.

    After finding out that there is absolutely no meaning to your life, why is "healthy and comfortable" preferable over "pain". It is a contradiction in itself.

    Thanks to all for the replies...
  6. Kathy

    Kathy Well-Known Member

    This is something i've thought about a lot as well. That dying almost seems logical. My logic has always been that life throws things at us that we'd rather not go through, and at 15 i've probably not been through the worst of it yet so why should I wait for the worst of it to come?

    But i've figured now that even if life doesn't have a greater meaning why does that mean it has no meaning? Life within it's self has meaning. For the people around us. Nothing has meaning, even if there was a greater meaning, what's the meaning for that greater meaning. If you see what i'm saying.

    Life is here for us to make the best of. To enjoy, for the people around us. There is no logic in ending your life, as it will be done for you at some point anyway. Ending your life has even less point than living it, since once you're dead you have no effect on anything.
  7. LoveBeing

    LoveBeing Well-Known Member

    Hi Optimistic,

    Let’s take a look at answer #1)”"don't know": I don't like to think about the questions which have no answers…”

    Is it absolutely true that this is a question that has no answer? Didn’t the Buddha (for example - I've read some of your previous posts by the way) find the answer?

    Here are some questions which may be the crucial points missed out? - What is life? Who or what am I really? Do I really know or do I just think I know? What if the answers are not what the mind thinks and totally beyond the mind but still possible be known (not just by beliefs but by direct knowing)?

    We are all the same with the Buddha in essence. If the Buddha found the answers, surely we can, too?

    Maybe the meaning of life is to find out who or what we really are?

    If it is really true to you - “living equals dying”, why not go natural by living it out then? Or is it possible that you may have some kind of fear in living?

    Frankly, I am also okay with “death” in the next moment if it happens naturally; but I appreciate life as it simply is and I’m fine with living while I’m alive…

    Cheers back to ya :)
  8. optimistic

    optimistic Member

    Thanks lovebeing for nice reply.
    According to me "whether there is any intrinsic meaning to anything here?" includes all aspects of "What is life?" & "Who or what am I really?"
    I can only say that Buddha put extremely hard efforts to find the answer. But, even if He did found the answers, it is limited to his experience and cannot be proved like science. So, your only option is to "believe" someone else answers.
    As far as I can say, I have lived enough. But as I can die only once, I would not be ending life by a method so that I am dead in few minutes. Rather, I would prefer a slow death and experience it fully over few days. By not rushing through, I would test myself that this is not just an emotional decision but a logical one.
  9. LoveBeing

    LoveBeing Well-Known Member

    How do you know "believe" is the only option if we are actually the same with the Buddha? You know it is possible that each of us can experience and know the answers directly as well...

    It is also possible that we do not have to put extremely hard efforts like the Buddha did as lots of spiritual teachings and materials are accessible to us which can help point us to the truth of life... Enlightement is simply our natural state of felt oneness with Being (Existence), not some super-human accomplishment...

    How can you be sure that you can die only once? What if life experiences are for us to learn lessons and a lesson is repeated (by reincarnation) until it is learned?

    How can it be "a logical one" as logic is limited to the level of the mind while life is beyond the mind?

    Who is this entity that is aware of your thoughts and watching/observing them? And who is the entity that is judging whether "this is not just an emotional decision but a logical one"? What if they are two different entities?

    Please allow me to introduce you to Eckhart Tolle and his work if you have not heard of him. He used to be extremely negative and thought to himself one night when he was 29:

    This is from his book "The Power of Now". The book talks about the ego (ficticious self) and how to recognize it, and points to the truth of life... Here is a link to free download of the book in PDF (see page 8 for the above-mentioned story):


    It seems to me that Eckhart is one of those individuals who have been set free by direct experience and knowing the truth of life, not by belief...

    What's the hurry to "end" anyway? You said:

    If you truly mean what you day, "healthy and comfortable" and "pain" make no difference to you, why not take some time and see if you can know the answers to those questions by direct experiences? Maybe the answers could surprise you beyond your wildest imagination... You've got nothing to lose anyway? :unsure:
  10. flowers

    flowers Senior Member

    One word for you: Nice. I liked reading what you wrote.

    Optimist, I sometimes think in terms of the heart vs the mind. I feel that the heart lives in truth and light. While the mind can take on some pretty interesting thought patterns that may not be too connected to deeper truths. Sometimes, perhaps often, it is hard to hear the voice of my heart, above the loudness of my mind. My mind tries to take charge. Even if it is not in my best interest. The heart... is connected to deeper truths and answers. But it is much more quiet compared to that mind of mine that is very busy. Perhaps we are not supposed to know the meaning of life. Because if we did, then we would not have the opportunity to gain greater strength. Just my thoughts. I dont have the answers, of course.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2011
  11. oxygenidia

    oxygenidia Well-Known Member

    How is it a contradiction?
    Hmm..., let me put it this way; The fact that I feel is a fact. So If I'm gonna feel something I prefer for it to be good feelings instead of bad ones. I would also prefer feeling good and alive instead of not existing at all and feeling nothing at all. Pleasure is always nice, right? Even if there isn't any divine meaning to it.
    I don't think that there is a meaning to my life, but that still doesn't make me want to trade my life with a tortured prisoner if you see where I'm going....

    It does make me wonder why it's worth putting up with pain and struggling though, if there isn't any meaning to it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2011
  12. optimistic

    optimistic Member

    Lovebeing, flowers :

    Thanks for showing interest and expanding your ideas.I did go through the book suggested by you. What is suggested here is more of "mystic" ideas rather than looking at the reality. Btw, I didn't know about "entanglement" previously. Great phenomenon!

    I guess I am ready to explore more about death now. I would like to conclude this thread by sharing views of a great personality Feynman:


  13. LoveBeing

    LoveBeing Well-Known Member

    What is the reality? Is the reality the existence and what is happening? Or is it what we think it is? Without human’s thoughts, is there a reality??

    I had a look at the video clip by Feynman. Science is merely the information humans collected through the accumulated knowledge at the level of the mind. What was the reality before science?

    Before we can see or know them by our direct experiences, maybe you can say that they are “mystic ideas“. What we are exploring here is beyond the mind and physical eyes. Again, if we are open to life, it is possible for us to have the opportunity to directly experience the “mystic” and know that which really matters… Here is an example of someone with such a direct experience:



    Logical mind also is illusion - Mooji

    Is it possible to realise the Self?- Mooji

    Cheers :)
  14. optimistic

    optimistic Member

    The problem with "actual reality" is that one can go on repeating the question but cannot find the end solution. What is the criteria that we stop and say "ok, this is real". For e.g: after finding enlightenment, is it real or a mere delusion that my mind invented it?

    Though others may deny, it is a same case of Descartes "I think therefore it is".

    What is "mystic" experience and why does it really matters?

    Is it that one just has so immense faith that there should be a perfect happy blissful world that he must create it ?

    Counter this:

    Right now I had wonderful experience. There was lightning and storm and suddenly "God" appear in form of white bearded man and said:

    "Son, you have realized the ultimate meaning in life that there is no meaning in life. Your purpose of life is served here. It is in best interest of world and me that now you should end your life as soon as possible"

    I am feeling so relieved and blissful!!!
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2011
  15. LoveBeing

    LoveBeing Well-Known Member

    Who is this "I" that is feeling so relieved and blissful!!!??? Is this the one that wants to end "your" life??? Does this make sense??? and why "as soon as possible"? any fear involved??

    Just to point out that what you are doing is to keep using the mind to explore something that is beyond the mind...That Which beyond the mind is not just an imagination...

    From a certain perspective, it may not matter; but it is the only thing that matters ultimately that we allow That Which beyond the conditioned human mind to be realized ItsSelf...there is the difference...That Which truly feels relieved and blissful would never ever kill life - that is certain!! :biggrin:

    May peace beyond understanding be with you :)
  16. optimistic

    optimistic Member

    I was first surprised by sudden storm and lightening . But it was so wonderful peaceful heavenly experience that I felt blissful afterwords. And regarding your other questions, ask "GOD", it were his words, not mine.

    P.S: This was just a analogy I was trying to show how can someone just make up this kind of stories and influence others with their own thoughts but showing themselves as God's messengers.

    I don't think there is an example which I can relate to. Do not come up with "God is beyond mind but He is not just an imagination"

    Can we just say for someone it matters and someone it doesn't rather than making a generalized statement "this is what ultimately matters".

    How can you be so sure? Did you also had that "blissful enlightenment" before or you have just read/heard it somewhere/someone.

    And what you have said is not true.

    If I look at your point of view , according to some oldest living religions it is ok to end life if you think your purpose is served.

    Btw, only difference is that I am not expecting something out with this act.

    Lets take life's decision according to what we know.

    Last cheers,
  17. LoveBeing

    LoveBeing Well-Known Member

    That’s okay, optimistic…

    Thinking is not knowing…

    How can I be so sure? It’s direct knowing through some unexplainable personal experiences while I have no intention or no way to present it to you…

    Thoughts from another source cannot be hard evidence, can they?

    No expectation from here, either…

    Wish you well!
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