Re: Where dammed if we do dammed if we don't....
I am not one of those that go out of my way to criticise USA/Americans, tbh. I've had American friends and would love to visit there some day, I have just encountered a lot of seemingly fragile people from there who seem easily offended and take any hint of criticism personally, so they launch the whole "the US saved you in WWII" tirade or "we could nuke you off the planet if we wanted", even if its not relevant sometimes. Granted, I know there's arrogant pricks from here who bash the USA at every opinion and it's often not called for, so yeah.
I agree though, you shouldn't really debate and start getting personal, "debate the debate, not the debater". This is a international forum, so yeah.
I'm sort of the same way when it comes to criticizing other nations. I won't go out of my way to do it, but if the topic comes up in discussion, then I'll share my opinions. I sometimes try to balance it out and state some positive criticisms as well, giving credit where credit is due.
And I'm not all that thin-skinned when it comes to criticism of the USA, as long as it's fair criticism and doesn't sound like the typical anti-American propaganda that we hear so much of. A lot of times, it seems like America is often unfairly scapegoated, as if we're the cause of all the world's problems. My response to such criticism would also be dependent upon where the criticism is coming from and what the possible motivation is.
For example, if someone criticizes America and they're living in a country which America has harmed directly, then I might be more understanding.
But if it's from a country which has been one of our closest allies since World War II, then I would be more inclined to "lower the boom" on them, as they say. I believe that when we look at the world today and how it got that way, both the UK and USA have a shared responsibility, both in the positive and the negative. That's why I'm probably less tolerant of that kind of criticism from the UK, because it makes it look they think that America is solely responsible and that Britain had no role whatsoever in shaping the state of the world. Like they're totally innocent and free of blame. I can't just let that go unchallenged, because it's utter bullshit.
Yes, I would agree that it's overstating the case to say that "we saved you in WW2," but you have to keep in mind that Americans have been told that by our own government and propagandists even during that war and in all the years since. This was necessary in order to drum up enough popular support for our global military adventurism.
One thing to remember is that it took a massive shift in US policies and our national security perceptions, and the result was that our foreign and military policy closely mirrored that of the UK following World War II. So, in essence, we had to change many of our founding national values to be more like the UK (and France, to a lesser extent), as they were the main superpowers and rulers of the world prior to WW2.
So, even if we didn't "save you" in WW2, we still had to sacrifice our national principles in order to maintain the global stability which was threatened due to the weakening of Western Europe and their hold over the world, as well as the threat from the Soviet Union which Western Europe was still depleted and not capable of meeting that threat. The situation left a number of power vacuums throughout the world, such as in Africa, the Middle East, and the Far East - all areas which were previously under UK or French control but were losing hegemony rapidly.
Vietnam was really a French mistake that we ended up having to try to clean up, because the French couldn't do it themselves. The British had been involved in Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan long before we ever came on the scene, not to mention Pakistan and China. The post-colonial world was a total mess, as it still mostly is today, and all we were trying to do was clean up the mess and prevent the Communists from taking advantage of the situation. So, when people from Britain or France try to condemn America for what we're doing, I feel it's important to remind them of the kind of mess that THEY made in the world prior to our more active involvement in international affairs. It's not all America's fault, and overall, I don't think we did such a bad job in the long run.
Also, there's a tendency to blame America first, while completely ignoring the policies and actions of our adversaries. People would make one-sided criticisms of America without a more balanced approach which include criticisms of Soviet policies, Iran's policies, North Vietnam's policies, China's policies, and so forth. The implication is that every other government on Earth are nothing but saints, while America is all evil in their eyes. That is blatantly false propaganda, and that's also something that can't go unaddressed.
I'm not saying that America is a perfect nation, either. I am very critical of my government and the policies they impose on us, although from my point of view, I'm more critical of domestic policy than foreign/military policy. I honestly believe that America
should withdraw all of its troops from the rest of the world and focus more on taking care of its people here at home. Let the rest of the world handle its own problems, but whenever I try to argue this point among my own countrymen, all I get is the same crescendo of bullshit from Republicans and Democrats, who are both basically the same when it comes to their foreign policy agenda.
It would a tremendous help if other governments would publicly announce that they don't need our help, which would also serve to reduce the prestige of the globalists here in the USA. It just infuriates me when I hear criticisms of America when these people should rightly be criticizing their own governments instead. Our government justifies its policies by constantly proclaiming that these countries "need America's help," and when we don't hear anything to the contrary from these governments, what are Americans supposed to believe? Are they supposed to believe someone on the internet who says "America sucks," or should they believe the official recognized governments of those nations who claim that they "need America's help"?
Likewise, I absolutely refuse to accept any criticism from Japan, Italy, Germany, or the former Soviet Union. Any country that would allow scumbags like Tojo, Mussolini, Hitler, or Stalin to rule as dictators deserves no respect whatsoever. They have absolute no right to complain about anything America does, since their aggression and expansionism were the direct cause of most of the problems the world is facing today.