What are humans for???

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by jimk, Mar 19, 2014.

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  1. jimk

    jimk Staff Alumni

    Been one those days and too much time on the hands.. Find myself surrounded by all stuff, compulsions and my twisted life.. Other than caring and trying to help my son Johnny I do not have a clue why I am here, alive and what the hell I am supposed to be doing every day!!

    We are overpopulating , polluting and killing the planet.. We fight meaningless wars, mistreat the minorites and do not seem to be accomplishing much that is noteworthy..

    Why are we here and what the hell should we be doing???
  2. lonel

    lonel Account Closed

    i agree we should be helping the planet
  3. youRprecious!

    youRprecious! Antiquities Friend

    oh jim - do you have the rest of the week? Or more to the point, do I have the rest of the month (at least) to write it out? :) there surely, surely IS a purpose to being a human being, that much I have discovered, in spite of my mistakes and truck loads of wrong thinking over the years....... BUT the wonder of it all, is that even what I consider to be so negative has had its purpose - and to put it in a nutshell in a one-liner, the truth I've discovered (certainly, not invented) - is that we don't come to God by doing it right, but by doing it wrong.

    "Coming to God" is a term for coming into an understanding of the meaning and purpose behind the universe. And it is all discovery, it cannot be invention or fantasy because those things don't hold much water. I know the education system doesn't teach the meaning of life, and those who go to uni to try to find it in philosophy - well, not everyone can do that, and then those who come out with philosophy degrees don't write books to say what it is (apart from other philosophical books that the average person can't understand).

    I also appreciate that trying to explain the "why are we here and what the hell should we be doing" can get pretty waffelly ('cos not many seem to ask these obvious questions, so it's rare to have an opportunity) - but maybe this may help:


    always happy to PM too. :)
  4. flowers

    flowers Senior Member

    Hey Jim. The million or billion dollar question. These surely are times of huge imbalance. I wonder though if each one of us as we find more balance, contribute that to the collective consciousness or critical mass of humane ity. And that will hopefully at some point shift the collective unconscious and damaging behaviors and thought patterns to ones that are more conscious.

    Like droplets in a pool, hopefully as we become more conscious and healed, we can add this to a collective global and human "right action" that will be much more sane and humane.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2014
  5. youRprecious!

    youRprecious! Antiquities Friend

    "mental egoic consciousness"? I've heard that term recently, flowers
  6. someguy24

    someguy24 Well-Known Member

    I think we are here because we do haha.

    I think the mind tricks us into believing that there must be a final and absolute why or how when there is non, or that all things can be explained by categorical reasoning, which is not proper, and this is proven by religion to some extent, and by the failures of focusing on one perspective. We basically try to make sense out of the chaos our minds are able to perceive.

    If Stephen Hawking is right the chaos of humanity will end up in self destruction if we dont spread to space, so maybe we all should be focusing on getting the heck out of this planet to somewhere else :D
  7. lonel

    lonel Account Closed

    yea i agree

    i guess theres two ways to look at it. from a 100% science POV or not- whatever works
  8. Raven

    Raven Guest

    [FONT=&quot]No one can tell you the reason for life, only one person can tell you the meaning of all of this, and that is yourself. To me a life without ultimate purpose is one I can choose to live on my own merits and find my own meaning in.[/FONT]
  9. lonel

    lonel Account Closed

    good point, thanks
  10. youRprecious!

    youRprecious! Antiquities Friend

    I beg to differ Corvuise - although I do agree that we all do have choices and the power to choose. To say we are each responsible for telling ourselves the meaning of life can leave a lot of people very stranded because of not knowing where the heck to start, apart from what they think - and our own minds have only been around a few years in the light of the great scheme of things, and some come here because of needing insight they've not met yet.

    So it seems we set out and then have to choose between either a scientific worldview or a religious one for answers, according to preference.

    Beginning to sound waffelly I know, sorry.

    I come back to believing that there is a way we can know, and all truth is God's truth and that science is a part of that - the knowledge of how. Science cannot tell us why, and we're all faced with the big 'why's'. It's a humble person who acknowledges that their own opinions don't have the answers that actually make sense and can satisfy.
  11. someguy24

    someguy24 Well-Known Member

    I disagree :)
    Because there is no true why or even how. Plus you can chose to live by a combination of both science and religion. Science points to a how to a certain extent only and so does religion.

    I think that meaning, referring to life in its most basic definition is that which causes a person to take an action, be it consciously or subconsciously. In this regard meaning is the cause of our lives actions, and so its based on our past, on how we or our bodies perceive it and on previous circumstances. Purpose on the other hand is based on the future, its part of our expectations regarding our actions derived from the meaning that we give to our past experiences, so both perspectives combined are part of our different motivations and actions in life. Our lives, as we define them based on our conscious analysis, is based on this context of meaning and purpose, yet life in itself has neither meaning or purpose, because both are based on what we define as life itself and not the other way around, so that life is not dependent of meaning and purpose but these do depend on life, but not just any form of life. Its only in the conscious mind that meaning and purpose is created and defined, even based on our evaluation of our bodies unconscious activities, so in essence meaning and purpose is also dependent on a particular level of consciousness and evaluation. From this we derive that meaning and purpose is constantly evolving on everyone, its what makes us adapt to ever changing circumstances, its what makes us evolve as people, its not by any means a fixed thing that we could ever objectively define.
  12. Raven

    Raven Guest

    No that is a very bad statement, the scientific world view should be accepted and embraced before anything else, to not do so it is to throw into the wind all the great things that science has brought our world, vaccines, medicine, clean water. No the scientific world should always be embraced.

    The choice is does one choose to accept the claims of the religious? Then the world view should be the sciences with the religious one being for questions that science does not answer or never will attempt, what is the meaning of life, what is after death? The only way that science gets in the way of religious belief is the idea of the young earth creationists, this is a fight that religion is losing and that is the only thing science has to say on the supernatural (that are really more scientific claims then supernatural one's)

    Why are we here? What is the point of existence? None of this does science try to explain because it can’t and it shouldn’t. That is the realm of philosophy.
  13. youRprecious!

    youRprecious! Antiquities Friend

    ok - have not read all, only the first and last sentences. I agree that it isn't science's job to explain the whys. If it is philosophy's and only philosophy's, philosophy would seem to have failed, then, giving most the impression that there are no absolutes. So we're thrown back either to just ourselves, or the religious approach. I accept that religion seems to have failed also, in that screeds of people have been turned off the idea. However, to say "there are no absolutes, or there can be no absolutes" is in itself an absolute statement, and therefore nullifies itself. I refer to your first sentence "Because there is no true why...." - how do you know that, absolutely? How have you come to be of that opinion, may I ask?

    Now will read the inbetween :)
  14. lonel

    lonel Account Closed

    interesting points all
  15. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    The human species is an unquantifiable anomaly, so the same can be said for all life.

    An event born of happenstance and proper conditions. Evidence shows similar conditions were nearly met on mars with the finding of dead microbial life.

    Our existence has no meaning or attachment to the universe or even the planet we are on save for its serving as the genetic birthing chamber for our complex life and that by which we use to support ourselves.

    Human nature is relative to parasitic nature in that an equilibrium is not formed with the environment of which humans grow but rather mass reproduction and destruction of resources take place along with the mass migration of the species and therein the cycle is repeated.
    The human species has currently attempted to expand beyond its original host home, the earth, for the sake of expansion and continued consumption of resources, such programs as Mars exploration, Lunar exploration, lunar colonization and the space station stand as evidence.

    The human civilization is a patchwork pattern of self-destruction predicated on the illusion of importance, whether on the individual or the community.
    The continued process through out all of recorded history of mankind proves this that when humans gather in larger groups, differing ideas of importance
    leading to warfare, destruction and death. The tribal nature of the human has not changed greatly from the early semi-nomadic days safe only for the size of the human armies.
    Preservation has allowed the human species to develop a sense of a conscience rather than form an equilibrium with its environment, the difference is the conscience can vary and allows the human to decide which it feels is more important, plant, animal or other human life.
    The species uses this conscience as a tool for survival, protecting often the young for further future procreation and at times the limited resources for their own survival.

    When the species has satiated its need for resources it often becomes self-destructive through various means and methods; gluttony being one popular one.

    The entire universe is approximately 14 billion years old, the human species has existed for less than 1% of 1% of that time.
  16. youRprecious!

    youRprecious! Antiquities Friend

    "Our lives, as we define them based on our conscious analysis, is based on this context of meaning and purpose, yet life in itself has neither meaning or purpose, because both are based on what we define as life itself and not the other way around

    So what you're saying is what has come down to us since "The Enlightenment" that man is the measure of all things, .......the result of which can only be that everything is relative. Saying everything is relative must only be a relative statement then, but it is believed like it is absolutely true.

    But it could also be a complete error, should "the Absolute" exist.

    [I apologise for any head-twisting happening to any readers] :)
  17. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    The species necessity to consider its life has any value only proves how valueless it is.

    The human species is without recognition and will pass without any as has the life on the planets near it and the life that came before it on the very planet it lives upon.
  18. Adam

    Adam SF Supporter

    Why are you here? Such a daft question, you are here are because you are here. Do you have any idea how amazing it is you are here just from a purely biological level? The odds of you getting to even exist and be conscious in the now, to even be in the right location to write this question in the first place are so infinitesimally small you would be amazed. But that is all irrelevant if you want to think on the pointlessness of it all for a moment you could consider that one day the entire universe will collapse back to nothing, long before that our sun will implode and take everything with it in our solar system and beyond. I find it rather odd how people search for meaning as if it is something that will fall out the sky and explain itself.

    The meaning of life and why we live is what you make it, it is not a eureka moment of this is my purpose, it is something you discover by doing and experimenting with things you are maybe interested in. Till you find that thing that sets your passion on fire. No one will deliver meaning or that fire for you. You have to find your own in what ever that is. If you have a passion and love of something that is where you should put your meaning and drive of life. There is nothing inherently wrong of your meaning being your son. Nothing at all, that is not a lack or absence. That in of itself is beautiful, do you know how many fathers abandon their children with difficulties? I have seen it, it is too many! You should feel proud on that level alone that you do not count yourself amongst that number. That in your small way you reduce the suffering in the world.

    It is outright arrogance to assume the world needs saving. The world is just fine it does not need us even when we royally screw up it recovers. Just look at Chernobyl and the wildlife emerging there. The mushrooms that have emerged that filter radioactive waste into something safe and harmless. At one point this world was racked with such violence yet it is still here. If you want a better tomorrow for your children and their children's children it comes down to educating others away from the mentality of psychopathy.

    Do not despair too hard at the world and it's current state. It is easy to be pulled into the doom and gloom and I sure as hell get there. I can only now share with you how I cope with what seems rampantly insane to me. Or I would have killed myself a thousand times over already.

    It is to know we all are part of a greater whole, I don't mean this in a spiritual way although that can apply. I mean it as simply as we are all ripples in a pond. We all create ripples of effect, the choice is what do you want to do with them? If you can only be happy when the world is saved and a utopia you will be miserable for your entire existence. Because nowhere in the entire history of either life or man has there been peace. The gazelle does not hug the lion and the lion does not get mandated to go to sensitivity training seminars and taught the benefits of tofu.

    You could be upset about that fact I suppose or you could surrender to that knowledge that on the large scale there is nothing you can do and there will always be suffering. Then let that go, stop looking at just the ugliness of the world or that is all you will start to see.

    All you can do is draw attention to what upsets you and find others that resonate with you. Then together you raise your ripples and push against the tide that offends. This does not take grand gestures. It can be such small things, you actively engage on this site Jimk, you help people here. If you do not feel like you are doing enough then do more? Find something to get involved in that speaks to your passion for positive change.

    Here is a simple suggestion, you look after a severely disabled child, why not talk abut that go contact your equivalence of an MP? Talk to them about what is going on, the difficulties, what is lacking, what is missing. Those people want to hear this stuff. Alternatively get involved in alternate energy projects or clean initiatives. Just do something Jimk even if you are not overly confident about it. Do it any way, reach out and see what happens.

    This is my personal philosophy right here summed up in a story that gives me much strength even when I am dealing with the scum of the earth and want to will this world into the sun as it disgusts me so much with its absurdity and cruelty.


    Read it, understand it and hopefully find the same strength from it that I draw on. Don't just look at the negative, look here also or you will drive yourself insane.



    Yes plenty of shit is hitting the fan, but there is so much more beyond the horror. I see it every day on this site and the circles I move in, people helping one another. The thing is negative news screams the loudest and sells the most papers. So we are saturated in it and it distorts our world view to a very negative place.

    As you seem to like Gandhi quotes, let me quote something else from him.

    Something to consider Jimk. Don't wait for the world to get better do your small part to make it better in what ever way speaks to your passion. In doing so you may trigger others to follow suit and so it goes.

    Be gentle with yourself Jimk.
  19. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    Mankind, human nature, it does not change.

    It is the human species inability to recognize that it is a creature of its own nature that will inevitably lead to its downfall.
  20. someguy24

    someguy24 Well-Known Member

    What!? Human nature does change, its changing, and will continue to do so as long as it exists, but it takes thousands and thousands of years, maybe millions since we are different from other species in that we seem to adapt our environment, but the environment will ultimately win in changing and bending us, because even if we say that we create our own environment it is still part of natural evolution and guess what? It is affecting how we evolve. A computer screen and its information will slowly affect the way genes will code for future generations believe it or not, the ability to communicate and work as we do, the effects of the industrial revolution etc. but those things take time to slowly affect our evolution.
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