What do you think of downloading music (illegally)?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by 12years, Dec 24, 2009.

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  1. 12years

    12years Well-Known Member

    I'm doing a research for a local newsletter on this issue and I'm just trying to get a general idea of what most people think, but I thought I might as well post this here in case anyone wants to take it to another level. If possible, please also state your age. Thanks for your help (and happy holidays?).
     
  2. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    I'm Canadian, it's a bit of a different issue here - for one thing, it's strictly NOT illegal. The US has branded us "a lawless haven for piracy", and they're trying to bully us into changing our intellectual property rights laws. "DONT TREAD ON ME", I say.

    I pirate everything, with few exceptions. I don't know how I feel. On the one hand, I know it's wrong. On the other hand, I'm so cheap I would just do without if I couldn't pirate it, and I'm not keen on bowing down to American imperialism.
     
  3. Reki

    Reki Well-Known Member

    Definitely don't care either way. I feel bad about stepping on grasshoppers, dropping breakable things, forgetting my little sister's birthday. Inconveniencing multi-millionaires, not really.
     
  4. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Multimillionaires aren't generally the ones to be laid off due to lack of work, it's the workers.
     
  5. cult logic

    cult logic Staff Alumni

    Paying for my music is my way of saying I support the band I'm listening to and want them to continue what they're doing.

    Is it going to have an effect on them if I pirate my stuff? Doubt it.

    Even still, it's just my way of saying "thumbs up".
     
  6. Little_me

    Little_me Well-Known Member

    I download illegally everyday, that's just how it is. But I buy the stuff I like very much
     
  7. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    Very interesting idea. I hope we can help with your article, since I think this issue deserves a little bit of discussion.

    I for one have read that pirating music really hasn't done all that much damage to the music and recording industry. If anything, it may actually help, as it gives people a taste of music they may eventually like and loyally by. Most people tend to download singles that are otherwise already available publically.

    Granted, the research churns out as much proof of it being damage too. Most of what I'm saying is, admittedly, being based on empircal evidence.

    I did remember reading this though: http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14845177
     
  8. corang

    corang Well-Known Member

    I download stuff I might like and buy what I do like.
     
  9. KittyGirl

    KittyGirl Well-Known Member

    I buy what I love-- as long as it's available for me to buy...
    Most of the music I want to listen to isn't sold in this country, so I end up downloading it.
    It's sad, but true.
    All artists deserve to see the money when someone listens to their music- but it seems impossible to make sure they see a single cent these days.

    I've always supported the idea of adding money ontop of the purchase price of mp3 players and blank CD's to go towards the artists who get swindled~
     
  10. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    KittyGirl, we do pay an extra tax in Canada on blank media that goes towards the artists, though that's now outdated since most exchange of pirated stuff is online.
     
  11. Kris.T

    Kris.T Well-Known Member

    I buy all my music. :smile:
     
  12. GabrielConroy

    GabrielConroy Well-Known Member

    it seems inevitable that the music industry is going to die theyre an outdated middleman and peer sharing is a much more efficient way to distribute music

    I expect them to use the government like any other dying industry to keep themselves alive and try force people into giving them money one way or another the market will not favor them in the future

    i download everything
     
  13. pit

    pit Well-Known Member

    I think there are more important things to worry about.
     
  14. bubblin girl

    bubblin girl Well-Known Member

    im doing it lol...simply as that...im downloding music illegally...its just becouse i cant reach some music & buy it.
     
  15. nos nomed

    nos nomed Well-Known Member

    I download alot and the groups I like I buy. Overall its just easier you don't buy as many cds just to find out the band is garbage and made one catchy cover song.

    I am a musician who was in a local band for a few years I am friends with people from alot of signed bands and with alot of studio engineers. Unless they are platinum pop stars most bands see very little money from album sells, usually less than a dollar a cd actually makes it to the band. Most bands make their money from touring and merchandise. With the ability to also order cds online the need for the large money grubbing corporate distribution companies is less and less needed which is why more bands on independent labels have been slowly becoming more popular and the genres have been growing so much.

    Hopefully soon we wont have 5 companies forcefeeding us 30 boybands, 20 popdivas, 15 horrible rappers, and 10 nickelbacks and people will once again begin to start appreciating creative difference.
     
  16. Ordep

    Ordep Well-Known Member

    I’d like to start by clarifying my point of view on this issue: stealing is stealing, period. People can talk from now on and into eternity in order to justify their actions but stealing is stealing, theft is theft, period.

    Over the years I’ve heard quite a few “explanations”; some funnier than others, so instead of just slamming you with “downloading is bad”, let me pick up some of the most cherished excuses for downloading illegally:

    “I’m not stealing an actual CD – you might call it borrowing”.
    OK, this one is too easy: if you have a car – can I borrow it? Just for a few months… technically, it’s still yours; I’m just using it for the time being (without your permission). Keys, please.

    “I download an album and – if I don’t like it – I erase it”.
    Try going to a butcher shop, picking up a steak and telling the guy exactly the same thing: “I’ll go home, cook it and in case I’d like it – I’ll pay for it, if not… well, I promise I’ll throw it away”. Good luck .

    “But I don’t wanna buy an album without listening to it first”.
    Every single band and label are putting their soundclips on assorted websites nowadays, including MySpace, YouTube and what-else-you. If you still can’t figure out if you like the product or not – based on all that information – you probably don’t want this album anyway…

    “CD´s should be cheaper”
    How much cheaper? 10€? 5€? Nobody seems to agree on a final price (and never ever will), but – knowing human nature – it doesn’t matter how cheap it will (theoretically) become, “FREE” will always be cheaper.

    “I can’t afford all the albums I want”.
    Tough luck. It’s not everything out there that I can afford either, but you don’t see me stealing stuff. And – while at it - ask yourself: are you sure that you really need so many albums? I’ve seen people with terabytes of music bitching about the lack of “good stuff” – maybe if you just bought two albums this month you’ll actually enjoy them? I mean: sit down and ENJOY them instead of playing an album after an album in the background, while you’re doing your daily shores?

    “I can’t find some albums in my area”.
    Really? I could find any album – ANY album which I wanted to buy – in some of the on-line stores… “google” the name of the band/album and it comes up with dozens of places where you can order “your kind of poison”.

    “CD is an old format; I want things on my computer – have bands put their stuff on iTunes and such”.
    Right - every single band I’ve seen sales scans for (quite a lot of them, actually) can barely sell 10% of their all-in-all sales through legal downloads. Admit it: how many will, while sitting in front of their computer, choose a free download instead of a 10€ per album? The majority, obviously.

    “Downloading is a free promotion for the band”.
    Sure, in the beginning (that’s why so many young artists putting their stuff out there for free). Than – as the band’s approaching their second or third album and sales are still minimal - they just call it quits or get dropped by their label. Get it, finally: downloads do NOT result in more sales, they promote MORE downloads… a very, very well documented fact.

    “The damage caused by illegal downloading is overrated – not everyone would have bought this album anyway”.
    Seriously? And how do you know? Let’s say a 100 downloads – sure, not every single one could have been a sale, but can you – with any kind of proof, not a grabbed out of the thin air estimation – fill me in on how many than? 75%? 50%? 10%? All I know is that ALL of the artists (from small to big, who put out several albums in the last 10 years) are selling only a fraction of the amount they did previously – check out any “scan” and compare numbers.

    “I don’t want to support a greedy label, I want to support the artist”.
    “Good” artists and “bad” labels is a MYTH! It was fashionable back in a day for (some) artist to slam their labels for: ripping them off, “commercializing” them, “it’s us against them” blah blah… rebels without a clue. Labels are a very important link between the artist and his/their audience; supplying production, distribution, tour support and – above all – promotion. Look at the bands who are largely successful (while – in most cases - not exactly “loved” by the internet community) and look at everybody’s “favourites of the day”… their sales of albums and tickets are incomparable! And you know why? Because behind every success there’s a strong, dedicated label; I haven’t seen/heard of any band(s) selling out stadiums based on a “downloading/internet promotion” only… get real.

    “Artists should stop relying on album sales, they should tour more”.
    A classic. If the label’s not making any money on the artist (no CD sales), why on Earth should they give away tour support?
    Let me explain: in order to get on tour you need your start-up capital – airfare, accommodations, transportation, rehearsal room, some gear, backdrops, technicians, manufacturing of merchandize, a tour bus… you know, all that boring stuff that you need BEFORE you’re going out there and making your first buck (and don’t forget those bills at home; supposed to be paid now, as you’re going on tour for a while).
    Next step – promotion. In order to make your show a commercial success you need quite a lot of it – and this stuff is costly, no venue can afford it all. So, without getting into too deep – you NEED your label’s tour support to tour more (and better)… and if the label’s not getting any revenue (and they don’t – today – due to poor sales) – you’re stuck… look how many tours been cancelled lately – almost daily!

    And the most recent one – a true gem – “Musicians should realize that music is a hobby and stop expecting making a living out of it”.
    Would you visit an amateur dentist? I’m sure there’re some talented, very capable people out there, but would you take a chance? No? Now how would you like your favourite band’s next album being thrown together over a couple of weekends, recorded on a 1000 bucks laptop and supplied with a cover, which took a singer’s sister few hours to accomplish on the same laptop? Oh, you want a solid, professional product… I’ve got news for you – it costs!

    Now, making it personal...

    I take pride in having a bigass legal music collection. I collect CDs so at least once a month I pay a visit to my favorite media store to pick up some albums. It does help that I mostly like metal and other not-so-mainstream genres so I can usually get my music really cheap. As long as I avoid recent releases I can get each album for around 10€ which is preety good. I also spend a good deal of time in free legal download sites looking for interesting new bands. Sure, most of them are not-so-professional sounding, but I've had a good number of amazing suprises.

    With that said, I do go to the illegal side of the force on some ocasions. One is when I found that my newly acquired album has bonus tracks on other countries, especially Japan. While I understand in Japan it's cheaper to import and album than actually buy it, ence the bonus tracks, I payed full price for my album so I want the whole thing, thus I download the bonus tracks. Also, as a musician, I like to hear rough demos from the albums, in order to disect the songs and fully explore them and stuff like that. These aren't commercially avaliable thus bootlegging is the only avenue. On a more rarer note, I write some reviews and I've been asked to give my opinion on albums from time to time. On these ocasion, if I have no interest on the band in question, I might download the album and erase it after I'm done with it (downloaded some 20 albums for my christmas review on the Ezine and while I would have liked to keep 2, I still erased them.)

    The only event where I might actually download an album I'm interested in getting is when I can't contain my desire to listen to the album "right now" so like a child on Christmas Eve I just download the album and listen to it, only to buy it some days later and add it to my collection. Happened with the last Metallica and Dream Theater albums.

    I guess being a musician gives me a diferent POV about the issue by sympathizing with those struggling because of online piracy. I also can't get around the fact that I'm wealthier than the averange portuguese, thus I have more money for entertainment.

    And in all fairness, I don't have the same kind of problems with downloading movies, which I do, even tough it's not so different a market (well, some key differences, the movie industry is way wealthier than the music industry and actors are mostly not getting ripped off and even have other sources of income, unlike musicians) and american tv series (that I really don't consider all that illegal since it's stupid that foreign channels have to wait months to broadcast episdodes... and some shows dont even make it here.)

    Hope it helps and good luck with your project/paper/something :wink:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2009
  17. KittyGirl

    KittyGirl Well-Known Member

    ...when I say that I can't find the albums I like in my area-- it's because they're asian imports, and out of stock/out of copy.

    I buy all of the english albums that I like because they are available- but some others that I want are just not.
     
  18. morning rush

    morning rush Well-Known Member

    I agree with kitty girl, alot of what I want is asian and some of them are out of stock, not shippable here...when they are I buy them...I buy alot of songs on itunes and I'm planning on purchasing itunes card from japan so I dont have to download the songs I want for free...

    Also I do download songs and movies, the ones I like I buy them...I disagree that most people will rather download for free instead of purchasing a 10$ cd...when we like it, we buy it...

    also the downloading empire is doing pretty well with itunes, artists make millions with them...the only flaw itunes has is that it separates countries so if I want to buy japanese songs, unless they aren't on the canada version I can't purchase them...I'm hoping this will change one day

    you are right, theft is theft though...there is no excuse for it...
     
  19. Ordep

    Ordep Well-Known Member

     
  20. sTEPHbUD

    sTEPHbUD Member

    OH YEAH PIRATED STUFF.
    I pirated all my music - Over 2000 songs.
    And my movies. - Quite a few of them. :D
     
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