What if its God's plan?

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Lost2many, Jan 20, 2015.

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  1. Lost2many

    Lost2many Member

    This is my second time at posting on this site. The first time, I posted in the general forum last October and the moderator removed it. During an email discussion, I told the moderator I would not post in the general forum again. I have posted a few times on the Suicideproject, and discovered I wasn't the only one who felt the way I do. In fact, in December, a poster, who called himself rea3366, and was obviously military or ex-military, posted that he would not live to see the new year. His posts sounded like they were written by me! He has not posted since the beginning of the year and I even posted a message asking him if he was still with us. He never replied. I can only assume he found the courage to carry out his plan. I've visited literally hundreds of different suicide sites, and general forums in which questions about suicide were asked. The general theme seems to be that many people feel it is a cowardly act, and the religiously themed sites tell you that God doesn't want you to commit suicide! I can only say that 25 years ago, I couldn't find the courage to <Mod Edit: Methods> Obviously, many people do find the courage to take the last step. How many of the people who claim it is cowardly would have the courage to cause their own death? But my question is, what if it is God's plan for me to commit suicide? A year ago, I thanked the vet that had saved my favorite pet a year previously, and a few weeks later, celebrated when my child received an ROTC scholarship. I felt I was at the top of the world. A week later, my favorite pet became ill and died. I told God in my prayers that if he would grant me more time with my other elderly pet, and would help my son get through the rigorous medical and physical exams to get into the ROTC program, then I would die to atone for all the things I have done or failed to do, after my other pet died. My son did start the ROTC program after passing all the tests, and I have had more time with my other pet than I expected, but I know that time is running out. I have already purchased a burial plot, made funeral pre-arrangements, and put a deposit on my headstone (all without my wife's knowledge). No one knows I have a plan made out and letters already written. I do have second thoughts at times, but with my wife initiating our recent updates to our wills and other seeming co-incidences, it seems God is gently pushing me to follow through with my promise.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2015
  2. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    The God you speak of is the one in the old testament.
    Think it out, if God is all loving, all seeing and beyond our understanding; why the hell would he want us sacrificing ourselves.
    Jesus condemned the shedding of animal blood as sacrifices to God, so I can't see why he would want yours.

    Religion aside, have you had any treatment for the depression you are feeling?
     
  3. D1979

    D1979 Active Member

    I've questioned this subject pretty frequently. I've heard all the time about how much God loves us, yet I find that very hard to believe since He has allowed me to experience such extreme misery and depression for such a long time. Ever since I was younger, I felt like I was pre-destined to suffer through life. Nothing ever came easy for me while so many of my friends and siblings experienced such unbridled (and nauseating for me) and unblemished happiness and joy. I believe that God cannot grant everyone happiness and therefore some people are forced to suffer through life. It is unfair and unjust, but I believe it to be true. How can I believe that God loves me if He has allowed me to experience such misery for so many years?
     
  4. scaryforest

    scaryforest Banned Member

    i believe God is the hope within us, around us.
    hope does not tell us to die. nor does Any God encourage us to die in Holy books
     
  5. Milkyway

    Milkyway Well-Known Member

    This is science, not religion, what I am going to state in ensuing para, may look somewhat like, but its not. At the same time, I challenge the Everything was Created from Nothing theory right here, don't care if some Nobel laureate gave it. Will also express my comments on God's will after that.

    Either God or Nothing (as defined by Quantum Mechanics) existed and later this whole universe (or multiverse) came into existence in the big-bang. Some eliminate God from this equation. If God is not in this equation, where this Nothing came from with all the elements / potential of turning Nothing into Matter and Antimatter? Who put this Quantum Mechanics in this Nothing? Existence of this universe is undeniable proof that Nothing was never an absolute Nothing that remains undisturbed forever, therefore, this Nothing had something (rather everything) in it. Now if God (or Nature whatever you call him) existed, everything he did was based on science. When we say science, means based on certain basic NATURAL laws or principles. Whatever God or Nature does never violates these principles or laws. 'God does not play dice". There is no greater scientist than God.

    Coming to the question about God's plan, where is science in this plan?

    God has created a system, everything works within this framework. God interferes only in very exceptional cases or to do good to us. I don't think your case is that exceptional or it does any good to you or to your family.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2015
  6. Raven

    Raven Guest

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalām_cosmological_argument

    That is the cosmological argument, I myself find it a very poor argument used as a "proof" of God and trust me its not science.

    As for the God's plan, only you can really decide that, I would not think any God would wish that and if they did I would find that God unworthy of my worship and trust.
     
  7. Lost2many

    Lost2many Member

    TO TERRY: I was not able to reply to you until now, as I cannot post at work and I don't was to be caught at home. Yes, I am taking anti-depressants, which get me through the day. The last time I was at the doctors two months ago, she asked if I have a suicide plan, a asked me to promise that I would tell her if I make one. I lied to her and haven't been back for a follow-up. If my employer knew that I was on anti-depressants, I would lose my job, and if I were hospitalized, I would never be able to work in my profession again, even though I pose no danger to anyone else (other than bad guys). My job is sometimes the only reason to get out of bed. At the end of the day, I often dread going home to a loveless house, and wondering what condition I will find my pet in. Once he's gone, there will be no need for me to come home anymore.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2015
  8. Lost2many

    Lost2many Member

    I was not able to reply to you until now, as I cannot post at work and I don't was to be caught at home. Yes, I am taking anti-depressants, which get me through the day. The last time I was at the doctors two months ago, she asked if I have a suicide plan, a asked me to promise that I would tell her if I make one. I lied to her and haven't been back for a follow-up. If my employer knew that I was on anti-depressants, I would lose my job, and if I were hospitalized, I would never be able to work in my profession again, even though I pose no danger to anyone else (other than bad guys). My job is sometimes the only reason to get out of bed. At the end of the day, I often dread going home to a loveless house, and wondering what condition I will find my pet in. Once he's gone, there will be no need for me to come home anymore. (Sorry, this reply was meant for someone else)
     
  9. Lost2many

    Lost2many Member

    Not sure if replying in the right place
     
  10. Milkyway

    Milkyway Well-Known Member

    I am currently doing a research on the way we think and how it affects our decisions and life. Still working on it but one puzzling thing I noticed is that my research denies a good portion of proven theories of setting goals, sticking with plans, etc. Not all of these things and not every aspect of it, but a fairly good portion.

    The path to success or whatever you want to achieve is not paved straight. We map a path for ourselves and decide to follow it like we do for GPS. While travelling on our selected path, we come across with many diversions and dead-ends. We just ignore these diversions. Sometimes, life puts us on diversions that seem leading away from our destination or to nowhere. But this path to success is not a bloody GPS map. These diversions may look strange and totally out of the way, but many of these are blessings in disguise indicating probably a better way to get there or to get to even a better destination. Don't believe me, do a simple little experiment by going back into your life and check how you could have benefited from an adverse situation if you had kept your mind and options open. It is never too late, never. What we didn't do at that time or what not so good decisions we took at time still created new opportunities that we have available today no matter what the current situation maybe. There is always a way, always.

    Just ride on the waves, from top of a wave to top of another wave and get to a better place.

    I think love is not about expectations, but is in giving and sacrificing.
     
  11. Ljt

    Ljt Well-Known Member

    I don't want to offend anyone who is religious with this post so I spologise is I do offend.

    I am not religious but was brought up as a catholic. I do wonder that if there is a god then why do so many of us suffer, why is there hunger in the world etc...

    I do read up sometimes of the history of Jesus etc. and I came to this conclusion, I think that the reason so many people suffer with mental health along with other illness etc.. Is because we are strong inside. We don't feel that we are but maybe it's gods way. Those who are rich and have everything, big house, family , job, good health well who is to say that are strong. They could be the weak ones that god looks after with these things. And us who feel we are suffering maybe God knows we can cope inside, maybe God knows we are strong and he has no worries for our future as he has burdened us with illnesses and maybe we will be rewarded in time.

    This is purely my opinion so I don't want to offend. I to suffer from mental health and I know a lot of people are not religeous at all and I can completely understand why people resent religion.
     
  12. akb62

    akb62 New Member

    Why do you say your house is loveless?

    Also, i believe in God too. I sometimes get angry that He doesn't help me through my depression, but i realize it is just a test and NOT a sign that he wants me to kill myself. Please do not kill yourself. It may not seem like it to you, but your family will be devastated. You have many things to live for. Just think about it. What are your passions? Think of all the stuff you want to do in life. All the things you wanted to be when you were a little kid, all your hopes and dreams. You can change your life. You can do it. Just go to therapy. Do not lie to your therapist, she's there to help you. She wants you to live and succeed. I cant even go to a therapist because of the stigma attached to it by my family. Please find the will to live on.
     
  13. Dewonderland

    Dewonderland Well-Known Member

    If it's God plan he will take you.
    If he accepted your deal he will take care of you.

    But I am not sure God make deal.
    Especially that kind of deal.

    This is something human.

    But what I believe is that when you said you were ready to give up on your life to save the ones you love some angel or spirit around you hear your loud cry so strong with faith that you will make things better for your son and your pet that they helped you.
    You and them made this possible.

    Sometimes hurtfull things happen and I still can't explain why ...
    I have been told that it is to help you find the right place for you to be.

    But when miracles occurs you have to be grateful and believe that God loves you.
    Don't disappoint Him and don't doubt his power. If somehow he want to take you away he will.

    This is faith
     
  14. Multiple Man

    Multiple Man Well-Known Member

    I don't know if its necessarily God's plan. I think its just our reality. I do not believe that someone with genuine mental health issues committing suicide is cowardly or selfish. Its a form of profound suffering and a lot of people do not have limitless endurability. Its not really a rationale or even conscious decision. Its irrational and heavily influenced by years or suffering, mental anguish, and hopelessness. I too do not have the courage to commit suicide. But I would focus more on finding the courage to live than to die. When you run out of the resource, strength and coping ability to go on, then I don't even think courage has much to do with it. The overwhelming despair and misery would be enough.

    Assuming there is a God, I doubt he would create you to destroy yourself. So no I don't believe its God's plan. I believe its whatever you are trying to escape in your life. I do believe God loves us but I don't believe God interferes. At least not anymore. We have free will. To think, do, act and choice what we want. Except I have to say, the choice to not exist within there being consequences. And that's one thing I think about. What if my consciousness or soul ends up somewhere worse. God may be loving, but also seemingly very strict.

    I do think that people born in this world are predestined to a certain fate and the choices you make may seem minimal to counter that. Unless you have an extraordinary will and inner strength to overcome a lot of impossible odd, you will be dealt a hand at birth and you will have to live with it. That is my philosophical problem with life.

    I have about the self worth of an ant. Nothing I do, say, feel, or pray about matter that much to God. I live in a system whether created by him or not and there are laws, and those laws are heavily skewed against me having anything resembling a meaningful life. The one thing I hate is this apparent penalty of suicide. Makes me feel trapped. Like I have no choice really but to suffer here unreasonably.

    Ive always tried to set goals and have a plan of my own and tried as hard as I could to accomplish them. But ive really noticed that a plan is just a bunch of things you wish for that don't necessarily happen. Life is more about things and opportunities coming and going and whether you can seize on them. And trying to make the best decisions you can in life despite the circumstances. When your suffering from mental illness this ability is severely compromised. Ultimately these paths we try to set for ourselves lead to nowhere. I will say this.... once or twice in your life there is a train that will come by and many people wont notice it and many will be afraid of it but there is one and it can alter your life positively maybe but if you don't board it you will never know. I didn't board mine. It was a plane actually. And I live in a continual and endless state of grieving over it. But I am aware also it could have been a complete disaster as well but..... ill never know.

    Theres really no better place. Theres no cure of the severity of mine and millions of peoples mental illnesses. And the laws of nature, human or natural don't change. Maybe in another world. Maybe in another life. Is there a way? In many cases yes. But in some cases.... no. Hope isn't eternal. Hopelessness is very real and is the absolute reality for many in this world. The best case scenario is if I stick around and just die the very painful death I will have in another 8-10 years.( I have gastroparesis). Then maybe ill be rewarded for it and my consciousness will end up somewhere positive. I find this less likely more and more.

    God is supposedly omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. How can I possible be angry with a omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God. What argument could I make? Id lose. None of my concerns matter cos what I feel or disagree with is wrong. My suffering is justified and I should be so thankful and joyful just to have life and thank God each day of my life that I just simply have breath.

    People make the argument about leaving those who love you behind. If only they knew how much people suffer they would understand. But mental illness is so incredibly difficult to explain because its still something so incredibly misunderstood and undertreated. Its like saying I cant escape my suffering because it would cause others to mourn my loss. So I continue to suffer for a lifetime so I don't inconvenience them with having a temporary grieving process. Its different with different people. But in my case, no one loves me that much that I think would affect them so profoundly. Nor do I accept the notion that me making a choice to not live with a mental illness is selfish and would pass on my misery to others.

    I think God says something similar to what some of the therapists have said to me when I leave their office. "I hope you can find more help, but maybe this is just something you have to live with."

    I don't have to. I choose too...... for now. I think you should make the same choice.
     
  15. Lost2many

    Lost2many Member

    Dewonderland, I hope this reply shows up where I meant it to go. Like "Ljt" above, I was raised Catholic and am still a frequent church goer. Like "Ljt" though, I've seen so much pain and bad things happen (especially during my previous career) that I had doubts about God, such as why so many innocent people die so young, that in addition to my vanity, I felt was was being punished for my doubts. Just today, I was wishing that God would have just let me die 35 years ago when I was in a hospital for almost a month, and then I wouldn't have failed so many people and caused as much heartache as I have. Alternately , I wish he would have given me the courage to kill myself about 25 years ago, but I just couldn't go through with it. I never would have considered your premise that an angel or spirit heard my cry and helped. That is something I really have to think about. Thank you.
     
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