What Is Suicide?

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by DeathGoth, Mar 15, 2010.

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  1. DeathGoth

    DeathGoth Member

    Sorry this is the 1st post of mine, I am not sure where to put this because its a thought about what suicide is. No other forums seemed to fit this so I put it here, if anyone wants to move it feel free.

    I have been thinking alot about killing myself, I think the only reason I haven't done it is because I am unsure on what happens on the other side when you kill yourself.

    My past, since I was 12 I realized religion wasnt what it was and was wondering if god was real, which lead me into the research of death from satanism to new age. I have come across alot of things in my life that indicate that when a person kills themselves things are not as hell'ish as one might seem. According to Near Death Experiences(NDE'S) who have had nde's from suicide is that they feel unconditional love on the other side and how god yells at them for not completely thier tasks and makes them come back. there have been last life regressions that talk about people who have committed suicide and the spirits on the other side were not to happy about thier ending thier lives and make them look over and ask why they did it and most are made to come back within 3 to 5 yrs of the suicide.

    But, some NDE's have stated some things along these lines. I guess you would call it hell as of matter of speaking, not typical bible hell but hell. where people are walking around in thier own thought muttering things and so on wondering why they killed themselves in the 1st place.(this is one that i am afraid of) that they continue on about how screwed up thier lives were and why they killed themselves.

    But through the research of NDE's and past life regressions I have also come to a conclusion, we are all here for a reason, just because the majority state it isnt good to kill yourself does it make it wrong? years ago samari's considered it a honor to kill themselves. today we have people who do suicide bombs and are honored for it.(I know sorry just making a point) Who is to say that suicide is bad, we all have a purpose here and that we all have something to do in the big scheme of things. Maybe it is some of the peoples jobs when they are here to kill themselves to give lessons(this planned pre birth, not reflecting how you feel towards an individual) to people around them to feel loss, hurt, angler and so on. This is something else that I have been thinking about also. There was a quote not so long ago that came about something like this..

    I am having thoughts like this because I have have had alot of pain in my life, I have been thinking about this, but with everything I feel that i need to be right about what I do. I am just sharing this with people who have had someone die, plan on killing themselves and so on. It is for educational reasons only. People only like to tell people it isnt good, I dont find that suicide is bad, its a way of like.

    It is the 3rd leading cause of death between people ages of 18 and 24, and it goes with people all the time. I believe also if it were such a bad idea that whoever/whatever made us would not program that into out minds to be in there at all. Suicide I believe is done however by free will(Ya contradiction I know I am giving thoughts so shoot me.) which I believe when we feel that it is our time we would know. which leads us to be suicidal and want to kill ourselves, God will tell us otherwise whether we are screwing up.

    Anyway Here are some thoughts for people both suicidal and ones who have lost others through the act, I am just trying to put into perspective of the situation so i know it is the right thing to do. Maybe another post i will share my issues for now however I will leave this post.

    Thanks for looking, if you have comments I will try and answer them for you.
    And yes my spelling and grammar sucks, thank you. I research well though.
     
  2. ozinuk

    ozinuk Well-Known Member

    Suicide to me personally is Relief.
     
  3. total eclipse

    total eclipse SF Friend Staff Alumni

    IT is the end nothingness no hope no tomorrows just the cold dark earth there is nothing after death nothing
     
  4. DeathGoth

    DeathGoth Member

    I dont think that is the case, through the years of research it leads me to conclude we have to redo things again, sometimes with a little bit of help and a tad worse off than what we are now.
     
  5. Theone

    Theone Well-Known Member

    I always find the issue of what's after death to be a weird topic... In my opinion we seem to be socially Indoctrinated to believe there has to be something after death... See I don't belive there is... It seems that people say That there is as they need comforting that this isn't everything but why.. Can't people accept that this is it... I personally find comfort in the idea that this is It... As for these stories of people having near death experiances, see I believe this is the final act of the brain, trying to fathom an explanation for what is happening.. The brains final act at comforting us...
     
  6. DeathGoth

    DeathGoth Member

    I dont think that is the case, with all the past life regressions, and people remembering past lives, I do believe there is something more out there than what we precieve.

    There have been cases of past life regressions that helped solve cases from years back.

    Little kids talking about things that should have no clue about, one recent case is of a kid I think it was in FL that he remembered flying in planes and so on, was adiment about planes and was talking all kind of pilot lingo.

    There have been cases in instances where deceased loved ones would tell a member of the family not to do this to find out later that what that person said saved them from a hairy situation.

    Well I guess when we all die will we find out sooner or later.

    This I am not sure about, if your brain knows you are going to die, why should it care what you think, see, feel, believe anyway. Should it not be more along the lines of nothingness then? Although it is stated that when one dies thier brain lives another 12 minutes.. So anything can happen in that 12 minutes.
     
  7. charmane

    charmane Well-Known Member

    Wow, this is some deep thinking and kudos to you for going on a journey like this. Be careful to come to the right conclusions however. If God yells at people for killing themselves in some of the NDEs then maybe that's a clue. I think you could make a case for God or the creator or fate (or whatever you believe) making some people to be very emotional and sensitive and seekers. In this scenario, even if the thoughts of suicide are there - then the passion to seek the truth and to uncover a way out will be planted as well (as in your case). It is probable then, that the hard times and the sadness are just tools in self-discovery and recovery. I always think of that old saying "Whatever doesn't kill you will only make you stronger." You are gaining strength and wisdom from your search for deeper meaning and an answer to the fundamental question of "why are we here"? I learned a lot from your post - keep sharing.:wow:
     
  8. DeathGoth

    DeathGoth Member

    I am not doing this to scare people into thinking what god might do to them. My version of god and God in the bible are very very very different things, like night and day, or different sides of a coin persay.

    Here are what some say about things when they die.

    This may be long considering the txt I will copy/paste so sorry for that. I will also leave a link or where I found this so you guys can go through it yourself to learn something or ask questions.

    This will all be from suicides, I will not relate natraul death to this since we are specifically looking at suicides here.


    The one above is god talking to someone about why they killed themselves..

    The below us quoted from a book called "Destiny of Souls - New Case Studies of Life Between Lives" by Michael Newton
    This one here is of elders after the person has passed from a suicide in a regressions says how the elders yelled at them.

    There are alot of cases where god or elders yell at people for killing themselves because of something they wasn't supposed to do.

    But... There is one interesting case where the elders were talking to this one case in a regression, they showed her what could have happened in another timeline if she didnt kill herself.

    Something along the lines of her boyfriend at the time who killed himself prior, if he didnt he was going to die anyway from a accident.


    I think I am more afraid that I am wrong on everything I have researched since 13/14 to today.. 36.. I am doubting myself or I am actually being a pussy and not doing it for whatever reason.
    But, I think i may not be doing it because I believe strongly of the possiblilites of what can happen on the other side. Whether it get stuck in a void, screamed at by god, or whatever.

    Anyway I will continue to answer these questions the best that I can.
     
  9. Theone

    Theone Well-Known Member

    I don’t for one minute want to tell you what you believe is wrong, or you should think this way not that way, but ive got to say what you are writing about can bring different people to different conclusions....
    For example you state that people remember past lives, but you say this as it is some kind of fact, i cant, actually cant believe this myself, people who state this are in my opinion, convincing themselves of something that isn’t true... its a belief born in imagination or a dream or simply a lie... its the same with people that state they were abducted by aliens, they might convince themselves this as they want to believe it or something happened to make them believe it to be true but it doesn’t make it true..
    As for the whole idea of the "ultimate question" for lack of a better term, that being "why are we here" "what’s the meaning of life" ect ect.... ive always found this baffling as well, people say there must be a meaning of life, but why? Why cant people accept the very plausible view that life is just the result of a random occurrence of events... people say there must be a meaning of life but i believe this is simply because they NEED a meaning to there life, its a social construct... life is just what it is life..

    As you can probably tell im a complete 100% atheist but i have no problem with other people believing other things, i did not post this reply to say you are wrong i just merely wanted to note down a different opinion/ view, my belief.......
     
  10. DeathGoth

    DeathGoth Member

    Its considered statistical fact. The probablity of people who have had these instances that were tested and verified leads on the believe statistically that it can possibly be true.

    I have a saying that I tell people when I get into religious bouts, I would rather believe 10% of the worlds population that has had an NDE to 0% of the population that has seen god.

    The reason for this statement is statistics, statistically some can see this even, statistically some can be lying which I am sure they figure that out, statistically a lot of people give signs of everyone else, and statistically it all leads to that same place.

    The reason I believe in what I do is because statistically it is probable that something out there is more than what we can comprehend.

    The good thing about having opinions is chances are everyone is wrong.


    Its cool man, I didn't believe in anything for along time until I studied enough to think for myself. I don't hold that against you.

    Its cool your interested at least.
     
  11. johnnysays

    johnnysays Well-Known Member

    Maybe the reason some people need a meaning in their life is because motivation for them does not come easy. They need reasons to get up and accomplish tasks that're purposeful for them. Perhaps people who have never needed to wonder about meaning in their life have never known what it's like to not be motivated.

    Personally, I think a lot of the problems people experience is environmental. Sure, some people have broken chemistry in their brain, but the environment is so much more difficult to change. It's easy to pop a pill and expect it to work miracles, but it's much harder to change yourself and change where you live when you're having trouble just getting up in the morning. So many people have few they can turn to for support and encouragement. Life is like a prison to them. There're so many things I can think of that're so much harder to cope with than just popping a pill and depending on SSI. It's easier to pop a pill than it's to actually lose weight by changing your behaviour. That requires discipline, time, experience, and the knowledge necessary to do what's good for you. When people are looking for help, they want simple answers, not answers that require lots of effort and time. At some point we have to acknowledge this.

    I know people who're poppin bills and depending on government support just to survive. Without the government support they would very likely be on the streets. And they'd likely stay on the streets indefinitely. The streets are like a trap, and once you get caught in them it's very hard to escape from them. Then again, it's hard to escape from poppin bills and getting government checks in the mail and food stamps every month. The one thing I can think of that these people need most is change. That and a positive-reinforcement network of friends to encourage them to move in the direction of change. But change is money and time, and you don't want change to lead to bad habits or to places in life where people get trapped. It's so hard when you think about it, but living in communities has never been easy. And our society can be so private and consumer-oriented sometimes that it's suffocating; the furthest thing from community.

    I was homeless for a while and enjoyed a kind of freedom I had never known up to that point. I felt like an alien from another world. I felt foreign. It was the strangest thing I've ever done in my life. But the one thing it did show me was that: a) I want to be a part of people's lives in some way 2) I like to share laughs with others and to see other people 3) I marvel at what we accomplish. I like city environments so much more than the country because there're people in the cities, and like it or not, we're not cavemen anymore and cannot live apart from others without paying a penalty. I grew up in the country and still live in the country, but it's so distant and lonely in the country. And I'm claustrophobic. On the other hand, the beauty of nature is something you can't find in cities. It's nice to visit virgin land. I've often drove on logging roads and went to places where few go. It felt like traveling to another world. That was what it was like when I was homeless and went to some major cities. That experience with homelessness taught me that companionship with others, even though I highly value my privacy, is more important to me than anything else in this world. I need that like I need water.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2010
  12. Theone

    Theone Well-Known Member

    i think your right johnnysays, but i would say there are people that are not very motivated that still don’t need there to be an answer to life i.e. me ....... but i think your right about environmental factors......

    DeathGoth u say in response to my theory about the brains final act that...... "This I am not sure about, if your brain knows you are going to die, why should it care what you think, see, feel, believe anyway. Should it not be more along the lines of nothingness then? Although it is stated that when one dies their brain lives another 12 minutes.. So anything can happen in that 12 minutes".....

    now i of course maybe wrong and probably am wrong.... but... the brain has been known to block out horrific events from peoples memories, to forget things people would rather never remember and even to stop people from committing suicide by trying to create a rational for why they shouldn’t.... i cant tell you how many times ive been stopped from committing suicide due to my brain telling me that i would hurt those around me... creating a rational...
    the brain always try to comfort us in one fashion or another... it can create drug like effects... so why couldn't it create a safe haven from the final act of death, use images and stories we have been told to be true about the afterlife.... so we are less scared or hurt when the end comes....

    as for what you say about you not believing until you studied enough for yourself... i have no problem with this statement and if you believe it to be true that is fine but i believe i know enough about religious stories/beliefs, theories on life and death and even stories of reliving another life to say that i still believe this is IT and to say i actually find comfort/ acceptance in this belief
     
  13. charmane

    charmane Well-Known Member

    As for the whole idea of the "ultimate question" for lack of a better term, that being "why are we here" "what’s the meaning of life" ect ect.... ive always found this baffling as well, people say there must be a meaning of life, but why? Why cant people accept the very plausible view that life is just the result of a random occurrence of events... people say there must be a meaning of life but i believe this is simply because they NEED a meaning to there life, its a social construct... life is just what it is life..

    The search for an answer to the question "Why are we here?" "What does it all mean?" has fueled almost all of humankinds progress in one way or another. It is what fuels science - how do things work and why?" It's the why that is open to such vastly differing interpretations. It has fueled philosophy and religion, literature, the arts and so on. It doesn't matter what your personal conclusion is - if you conclude it's random, then that's your answer to the meaning of it all. You conclude that you are a random accidental cog in a machine with no real purpose. That's ok. But, you have been exposed to a whole lot of different thoughts and ideas from all the different disciplines to come up with your personal conclusion. Therefore you have taken part in the same search.

    It is important that people still ask these questions. It gives comfort and motivation to some, it gives direction to so many. It is a lifeline for a lot of people who need to believe that things can get better if they just believe. Even if you are an atheist or agnostic you have to acknowledge the incredible power of the human brain (which they say we really use very little of). The mind (whatever that is) can do great things for people and can help them reach beyond what should be their limitations (as in people recovering from a traumatic brain or spine injury).

    A lot of people have turned off of religion (myself included). I still recognize the impact it has had on the world for better and for worse. I have not however, turned away from spirituality. I like to stay open to ideas from all disciplines as long as they don't veer way off into something my mind just can't accept. I think the search for meaning comes from all disciplines and it is what keeps us moving forward in this world. I have come to different conclusions at various times in my life and I have applied different philosophies to my life. It is all helpful and it all helps me learn and yes, cope.

    This is such a good thread - I like the debate and the deep thinking by everyone.
     
  14. DeathGoth

    DeathGoth Member

    to Theone:

    I dont want to sound like an asshole or something but I asked someone who said the same thing you did and they walked away from me.

    If you believe nothing is after we die or before we are born, if it is just that nothing, why do you live? why do you do things, why do you try and achieve things, because if you think about it in the end it is meaningless anyway, because you go into nothingness right? I dont understand this logic, why try to accomplish things if it for nothing.

    Remember I am just trying to understand this thought, because I dont understand it. I am not trying to bash you in any way i am just really dont understand..

    Thats the suck part of seeing black and white and no shades of grey i suppose.

    I have intentionally not answered your 2nd question about the brain, I can not answer that without being personal and making you feel worse off than you are so I cant answer it. I probably will not answer it, I have to leave the why on what the brain does after death up in the air..
    I will mention however this, if that is what the brain does why is it that so many others have had the same type of NDE from Plato to Socrates to Edgar Cayce to the guy on the farm. All the same.. only small differences in each.(ya researched in depth..)

    Also you should watch Waking Life, its an interesting movie, I think you may like it.

    I have nothing more to add to what I have. Thanks again for the comments.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2010
  15. Theone

    Theone Well-Known Member

    to deathgoth i don’t believe you are being an asshole and as i say i don’t wish to bash your beliefs, i am simply find this area of discussion very interesting and wanted to outline an alternative set of thoughts...

    as the answer to your questions about believing there is nothing after death... i live because although i believe life to be a random occurrence it is an amazing gift, an experience you cant really explain, can never replicate, should (although many of us here do including me) never want to end.... That’s the thing about this area of discussion, i don’t think we (humanity) should be concentrating on what’s after life as we should be trying to experience everything that’s great about life... its a once in a life time experience..... i think life in the great scheme of things is meaningless but not to me as an individual, not while im alive...

    see its fine that you don’t understand it, its probably good you believe there something after this...

    see as i said about the brain its my personal thoughts nothing more... you don’t have to worry about being personal or making me feel worse as although it doesn’t sound it i am open to other theories (though I don’t always accept them)...

    it has been an interesting thread
     
  16. DeathGoth

    DeathGoth Member

    Thats cool you do know 3 things you keep when you die right?
    Love, Knowledge and your conscience.

    Its cool to talk to you about this, it gives me much thought on some things I havent learned yet, so it gives me a way to incorporate to what others think/believe. I dont have all the answers but our conversations here I am sure will help someone else along the line whether it is worth to kill themselves or not, we have given alot of information on why or why one shouldnt do it. That is my delema and why I am not dead yet, I dont want to face a pissed off god or elder for being stupid, but sometimes when the cup gets to filled things do tend to fall out.

    I donno its keeping me from killing myself, I guess its doing its job i suppose. Like I stated before belief can be a bitch sometimes.

    I just find it hard that you are productive and want acomplishments although you believe nothing is after this, I dont get why you would add so much energy into what you believe amounts to nothing. I guess I probably wont understand it.. ever..
    We are taught to have a goal and drive for it, how can 1 have a goal and drive for something that will according to them will be worthless when they are dead.

    Anyway..

    Earlier you stated something about the brain forcing people to forget tramatic episodes in thier lives and how the possible it might be that the brain makes up these movies for people not to be scared.

    Then you stated:
    You don't think this was you not wanting to do it, nothing to do with your brain but your thoughts, and feelings for others that you didn't want to hurt. Love is a powerful thing sometimes. I don't believe it was your brain but your thought process that helped you along to make a disicion to not kill yourself, you weighed out the pros and cons and apparently the pros won because you are still here.

    I try my best to make people think, wonder, and whatever. Alot of people dont like me for it. because it bugs them.

    I appreciate that you enjoyed this conversation I learned a few cool things from you these last 48 hrs or so.
     
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