Discussion in 'Rants, Musings and Ideas' started by gloomy, Apr 15, 2012.
I'm just wondering what it would take for you to not care whether someone kills themselves or not.
well that would have to a very dark day i was in to not care for someone who was struggling so deeply I think it would be i was too far gone myself and i too was on a very dark path
I guess that i wouldn't care if someone i hated killed themselves, but that's impossible to say for sure at the moment because nobody i've hated has ever killed themselves.
I would always care...because it's a loss of life and it's tragic.
What if that person had brought little or no happiness into the world, or if that person hurt other people? What's the sense in living another day if you know that you're basically just one of the 7 million other people on the planet, not being particularly exceptional, not being particularly good, hurting other people, hurting the planet, going around pissed off ugly inside and depressed, tearing others down, and just generally not doing anything worthwhile? Do you honestly think that every single human life is in any way worth saving or that dying is in any way a bigger tragedy than living already is?
Most people aren't special or unique. They don't have original thoughts or ideas. They don't really do anything worthwhile. We're taught that we're all special from a young age but it's a lie-- 99% bring absolutely nothing good to the table. The world would be better off, and people would be happier, if there were fewer people in it.
If you're not living for the good of the world or other people, which is basically impossible because if you're alive then you ARE part of the problem, then all that's left to live for is yourself… and what is that, exactly? A body that will just grow old and die anyways. A collection of thoughts that even though you might think so, really aren't so different from other people's thoughts. An ego that prioritizes your impulses so that you're pretty much only ever thinking of yourself… and not even for any really valid reason, because objectively, you're not worth anything.
I guess there's always an irrational, emotional impulse that tells you that other people should be saved from themselves but when you look at it rationally, it actually makes more sense for more people to be killing themselves for the good of the planet and the good of other people who won't have to compete for the resources/food/jobs.
We have the illusion of freedom-- you can't really own anything. You can't own land, because it's taxed and they'll take it from you when you die anyways. You can't own things because they'll just break. Every idea you could possibly have has already been taken and commercialized and sold and patented… turned into some sort of wretched banality that is repeated over and over and over by people who are too stupid to think of something new. Most original art isn't even enjoyable so much as intimidating or confrontational or unnerving.
There actually is no freedom… it doesn't really exist. You're not free. You can only do things that the authorities say you're allowed to do. You can't say certain things, and if you do, they will watch you… and other people will condemn you before they even try to understand you. There are so many rude, narcissistic, nasty, selfish, self-absorbed people around that it's like a disease… and everyone just accepts it and attacks you for pointing it out, as if nobody has any right to demand a degree of self-discipline or common courtesy from anyone else.
There is nothing in this world that is good… it's all just a series of meaningless distractions and doom. I used to think it would be better to do it in a way that punished myself or at least didn't make me look like a weakling, but when I look around me, I feel like I'm actually not even that bad, and that it would be better to do it in a way that's just as painless as possible… so that I can accomplish what I set out to do and let someone else deal with the trash left behind, because it won't make a difference anyways.
Hi Gloomy - I understand your thinking. I also don't want to patronise, because you seem determined in your thinking that this is reality. If someone came along and told you that REALLY you were very valuable (even tho you couldn't believe it) and that there IS a meaning to existence - despite the horrors of what we see in the newspapers every day ........ and that there are things we can do to learn how to function better in the 'matrix' in which we find ourselves..... how would you respond?
Would you tell them to get lost straight away, or would you agree to hear them out?
Is this the point where you start talking about God's plan?
So let me get this right, you're saying that if a person can't contribute anything good to this world then they should kill themselves?
Pretty much, yeah. Well, I don't think that humans deserve to be extinct, but there are definitely far too many.
So what would one have to do to be considered a good contribution to the world?
I really don't know.
Wow, usually gloomy your posts make a lot of sense but this thread is just....i don't even know what to call it, most of the people on this website feel that they are worthless and you practically just said they should kill themselves for the good of the world, there are many children with terminal illnesses and mental and physical disabilities which require 24 hour care, should we kill them? i mean they never have or ever will give a good contribution to world, ( yeah i know that's extreme way of putting it but i think you're being ridiculous) also what's the point in making a good contribution to the world if there is no one to enjoy/experience it? People do good things for the sake of the people who need help in life.
This does make sense, it's just not particularly warm and caring.
I don't really have an answer for the people with disabilities and such… it's not up to me whether they should live or die, it's up to them. You seem to think that they're incapable of contributing anything good to society (otherwise you wouldn't have used them in this argument)-- but that's your opinion. I think they might still be able to contribute something… I guess they create jobs for people, or maybe they can be artists or something.
I also don't think that they should be actively discouraged from killing themselves if that's what they want to do. Seriously, if you go through your life without being able to control anything… then how can anyone begrudge you control over whether you live or die? I've read stories on this site about people being tased for trying to commit suicide. TASED. That's not the kind of society I would ever want to live in, where they even take away your own right to kill yourself. That's not something that anyone should be allowed to tell anyone else. It's not something that anyone has any business making a law about…
But really, I was mostly writing about myself here. If someone reads this and thinks that I'm suggesting they kill themselves, then I should be clear that I'm not supporting or discouraging them from doing so. I think it's a personal thing and I don't think anyone else really has the right to weigh in on it. There are arguments that can seem pretty persuasive and I know what they are and I know how to articulate them, mostly because I want to create an impression of who I am and so that I can fit in, but when it comes right down to it, I don't actually believe any of them and I don't really find any of them particularly convincing.
I suppose it's nice to have a site where people 'support' each other but in the grand scheme of things I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with suicide or that there's anything really so tragic about the world losing one of its 7 billion people… we're not an endangered species and to be honest I think that eventually we're going to hit the point where something needs to happen to restore the balance of things so really, it's quite possible that things like depression and anxiety and such are actually natural responses to the ecological imbalance that humans are responsible for.
only if you were interested, otherwise I would be banging my head against a brick wall. In the end, it's everyone's decision whether they want to be interested, or not.
You can't tell me that i think that severly disabled people can't contribute anything good because you don't know what a good contribution is, this is what you admitted, also there's a big difference between a 'good' contribution and 'something' to contribute. Perhaps this is my fault for taking your words literally as they are written (i'm not being sarcastic or anything). You said all that stuff about 'a good contribution' then said disabled people can contribute 'something' but that could apply to anyone, even bad people, bad people create lots of jobs, such as the police, victim support etc etc.
Agh… you're just trying to point out mistakes that don't even relate to what I'm saying.
I'm 'contradicting' myself because good and bad only exist as relative concepts, and in order to talk about them I have to assume that you understand that I'm adopting a certain viewpoint when discussing them. When I said that disabled people can make 'good' things, I meant that some people might consider them to be as such. Other people, people in general, not me. I was actually humoring you even when it sort of detracts from my original argument. I said 'contribute to society' but that was a mistake-- sort of like when your brain completes ideas with cliches because you're so used to saying that kind of shit that you forget to stop yourself and lose track of what you're saying. I don't think that society is in tune with nature. And I don't think that nature believes in good and evil.
I don't really care about society because I don't think that anyone really believes in it anymore anyways, and if they do, it's usually because they're naive. I also don't think that contributing to it or not contributing to it makes much of a difference or is important, unless it's a massive sweeping reform that somehow occurs before we destroy ourselves, and somehow manages to reverse everything back to a point where it's sustainable and possible to live harmonious with nature... but even then, I think at this point we're all pretty much doomed anyways. At some point, we're all going to have to get a lot less compassionate in order to survive-- it's already happening anyways, but it's eventually going to get so desperate that there won't be any time or energy left to help the weak… and they'll kill themselves or die off and nobody will care. Actually, it will be a relief.
So whatever, I don't really think that someone who contributes a lot is any different from someone who doesn't. But if it makes someone feel special that they can do something, then I guess that's their thing and I'm not going to waste any time or energy or thought trying to tear it down. Again, I don't really care. I don't identify with that sort of thing at all.
I still feel things that other people feel but I also don't really connect with that because I know that it doesn't really matter and that it isn't who I am or what I belong to.
I would fight for that person's life to the end and never give up. I would never not care. On the other hand, I have lots of people that hope and wish I wasn't here and would be gone. That's why I'm on here. No one gives a @#$% about me.
Like you I am disappointed with how the world has turned out and how manipulated we have been and how its all about sucking the life out of us, the minions, in small doses. Older people have a different perception of how society works and I cant fathom out if they were just conned in a better way and if it is some of us that are waking up to reality OR if life was indeed simpler where honest people had prominent positions and made things more palpable.
Its ridiculous to say that we are all special and contribute to society, we may be different but not special that’s a children’s fantasy that has no value in todasy world. 99% of us are completely expendable but even if your not special it does not mean that you cant do something special or represent something special to someone. Its all about perception and scale.