What you call Karma

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Daphna, Jul 17, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    Many people trust in karma. The belief that when you do something good or bad it will come back to you.

    I believe in the same exact thing except I don't call it karma. I call it Divine justice. The law of heaven, according to the Bible, is to do unto others as you want them to do unto you. I have found this to be true. This is why I trust it so. I got what I gave and still do. What are your thoughts?
  2. poison

    poison Well-Known Member

    That is not karma. The western world has bastardized the true meaning of this word. Karma does not operate in the following fashion: "Oh wow, I didn't help that guy stranded on the side of the road. That must be why my car got a flat tire two days later." The way which we carry out our dharma, i.e., our moral duties and responsibilities, will determine karma not just for us, but for everyone in existence. Using the prior example, if you were to refuse helping someone stranded out on the road, you've contributed negatively to the world, and not only YOU have to live in the worsened condition of things, but everyone else as well.

    Karma is actually the causal system in which good events are derived from other good events and bad events from other bad events. When referring to a particular person's karma, you are making a judgment about what they contributed to the world — through their dharma, did they make it a better or worse world for everyone to live in?

    The golden rule is not exclusive to Christianity. It's a common ethical precept found in many religions, even those predating Christianity. Furthermore, it's flawed. What if I would like people to spit on my face and treat me derisively? Does that mean I should treat others like that? A better formulation would be, "Thoughtfully determine how you'd think others would like to be treated and not to be treated and then maximize treatment that they would like and minimize treatment that they'd dislike." Of course, this doesn't skirt the issue of morbid desires entirely. What if someone genuinely wanted to be eaten? Does that mean I should eat him?

    I think all this shows is that we must exercise prudence in granting the desires of others, which is something I think we all do anyhow.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2013
  3. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    I thank you for your contribution Poison. There are a few things that I would like to add myself. For one you are right that the Messiah came in the flesh only a few thousand years ago and there are many religions that predate the term. But His and His disciples teachings predate all religions according to the Bible. Which I believe whole heartedly. It begins with creation of the universe and religions beyond that didn't happen until the fall of man which was days maybe even weeks after man was already made. Obedience was first, rebellion in all its forms last.
    I would also like to point out that the golden rule is explained in depth in the first part of the Bible which is explained to have been done away with by false religious leaders, so I understand why you are not aware of this seeing the doctrines of man have replaced them even by those who claim to teach from the Bible.
    The "golden rule," found in the shorter and more popular new testament, sums up the commandments found in the old testament. It's very thorough on how we are top treat the planet, each other, and the animals. Like others commonly do you have forgotten the first half of the golden rule:
  4. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    Matthew 22:37 Yahshua Messiah said unto him, Thou shalt love Yahweh thy Mighty One with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 22:38 This is the FIRST and GREAT COMMANDMENT. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt LOVE thy neighbour as thyself. 22:40 On these TWO commandments hang ALL the LAW and the prophets.

    And the commandments found in the old testament goes into great detail on what the law includes. Even how we are to show Yahweh how we love Him, for those who choose Him:

    Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that LOVE ME, and KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

    This is repeated in Deuteronomy 5:10 as well.

    In conclusion, I personally find that the golden rule is not flawed in light of these facts. No one could decide they like pain and cause pain to another and truthfully say that they are following the golden rule. They may be following their own interpretation to it, but not actually following what they claim. Blessings...
  5. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    You really going to start cherry picking the bible, how about the parts that tell you how to beat your slave, or maybe if you rape a woman the solution is to force her to marry you and offer her father some compensation....seriously. take your bible and read it! it is pure evil in itself...

    It is your religion that insists i should love god more than i love my child....that in itself it disgusting.
    I'll set a challenge for you, read through the whole bible, taking every word literally, then see if that agrees with your current moral compass.
  6. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    I don't cherry pick at all. I have actually and do still actually read the Bible. I too challenge you. Pray for guidance and actually read the Bible front to back to see what it says for yourself. Anyone can jump to certain sites and read the same verses you bring up. But they nor their readers actually take the time to see what the Bible says. I could go through the painstaking process of explaining every verse you can muster, but it wouldn't do any good. You're mind had been made up by someone else's conclusions.

    I read the Bible for myself to see what it says from front to back and I am convinced that until others, who claim to know what it says, do the same they are basing everything on assumption. I should know I used to do the same thing until I did read it. You are free to have your opinions and assumptions, but to someone who does study and has studied the Bible for years...your references are exposed for what they are; verses taken out of context. Blessings..
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2013
  7. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    I answered you in my own post. Replying with a quote with many words is a pain to do on my phone. Blessings.
  8. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I am not what one would call a religious person - neither do I dislike religion. I believe in doing what is right. Nearly all religions essentially come down to the same tenants of being a good person - don't lie, cheat, steal, hurt others- be charitable when you can etc etc..... I do not care what name a person calls their god or if they have one to name at all- if they are a good human being then they are a good human being. I do believe in karma - good begets good and bad earns bad..... If somebody wishes to attribute that to divine purpose or reason I certainly am not going to call them wrong. My only issue with religion is the hundreds and thousands of examples throughout history of how people have chosen to interpret words of a religious text to justify acts of pure evil (not just one or two religions- the vast majority of them). If that is needed to be in a religion as it apparently is - to choose groups or segments to hate or ostracize and to see as being wrong when they are doing nothing bad then I will skip religion and stick to trying to be a good human being.
  9. Adam

    Adam SF Supporter

    Psychology: Just world fallacy: You want justice so pretend it exists.

    How I despise it, I wish I could set up mandatory education centres and shatter this most odious delusion. As it is holding us back from reaching a more humane compassionate state of being. Unfortunately it is heavily entrenched and is pretty much responsible for a rape victim being blamed for being raped. Work flat out set up a business and it fails, even though it was a housing market crash. It is your fault and you entirely chose to now be homeless by some character flaw or not working hard enough or just liking being a bum, I suppose you want free money. Are you nice and successful but all your success was simply inherited and some one else is doing all the work while you gain the benefits? Congratulations you entirely earned all your success and every one will assume you are a hard worker even though they earned nothing. It also allows evil to thrive as people are more prone to apathy if they believe justice will prevail as the proverbial hero will rise up.

    The Misconception:*People who are losing at the game of life must have done something to deserve it. (Often results in Victim Blaming.)

    The Truth:*The beneficiaries of good fortune often do nothing to earn it, and bad people often get away with their actions without consequences.

    If you want to go deeper down the rabbit hole and cast aside your delusion at possibly the expense of a Hollywood world where good always triumphs read on.

  10. prakash

    prakash Well-Known Member

    good thought !!!!!
  11. snarrylover

    snarrylover Well-Known Member

    But isn't this also true of you? Your mind has been made up by what you have read in a book. Our minds have been made up through the process of rational thought.

    I would like to hear the context surrounding the points bhawk mentioned - slave beating, marrying rape victims. Because no matter how many times points like those are made I have never found someone to give me an answer, to explain why those things are acceptable within the Bible's context. Please explain how the Bible being in favour of awful things is taken out of context.

    It sounds like some serious brain washing is going on within religious communities if people can follow those rules blindly without applying it to the evolved society we now live in. Times have changed and the Bible is clearly outdated - it's nothing more than a book written by various people claiming to have seen something. Anyone could do that.
  12. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    Thanks for your input NYJumpmaster. It's refreshing to read how one feels with such civility and honesty. In your own words you admit that you are turning from religion by the actions of those who claim it. This is a common thing. But I do not think that it's a good thing. The text itself isn't evil, at least I can speak for the one I read and follow. It's the actions of those who use it to justify evil. For example some claim that it not only excuses but encourages polygamy. Having read it myself I know that they are full of it. Knowing what the Bible actually says as a whole in its entirety, I can pick out the ones who do actually teach and practice what it says to those who don't. It's as plain as the nose on another person's face. Making up our own mind by looking into what religions truly teach is to me, the best way to go about it. At least then I know that my decision was made knowing all the facts and not the latter.

    I thank you for your input. Blessings..
  13. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    I thank you for your input. I appreciate the effort that you put into this response. Is this response to the belief in Karma alone or does it include the golden rule? I thank you for your time. Blessings...
  14. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry but you have avoided the questions raised.
    I was challenged to read the bible and i did, it is from my reading that i discovered things as disgusting as it insisting i love god more than my own child.

    As stated by myself before on this forum, the bible has to be taken as follows
    a) literally, in which case it is abhorrent, jesus himself claimed the old testament was to be followed... or;
    b) metaphorically/allegoricaly, in which case it is open to such human interpretation that it does not hold valid literal points and is no guide to living

    You can have it either way. Not both
    Things the bible teaches us include the killing of children, rape, genocide, how to beat slaves, how to mark your slave, children being sinful until they have worked for the lord etc etc (so if a child dies does the child go straight to hell?)

    The bible is vile, it contains so many teachings that are playschool level which even god himself breaks...
    Lets do some basic studies....God kills/orders the death of over 2 MILLION people
    The devil kills 8....
    Read it, you will be surprised
    Feel free to tell me im wrong, but a least be able to back your claims up...im happy to recover the specified parts of the bible

    And back to the original topic, karma....Bullsh*t

    What about the paedophiles who never get caught, they live a happy life while having destroyed the lives of others.
    Need i say more!
  15. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    Hello. I am glad that you have replied. First allow me to answer the first question. Did I too make a decision based on someone else's conclusions? When I buy an application, read a book, or search for a product review before buying an item. I take what others say into consideration. Especially when buying something expensive. In all these circumstances I turn to those who actually either played the game, read the book, or bought and own the product. I would never turn to those who only looks at the game, partially read the book, or those who have never owned the product , or just thought about it and is writing rumors instead.
    Also even though I take what is expressed in all the above I still check into it myself to form a permanent opinion. All theses examples are truly about meaningless things really. And I still take forming my opinion about them seriously. Just imagine how much more I take my faith and knowing what it truly is. To know what I am accepting as real, and true. My soul is the most valuable thing that I own. With this being said, I assure you that I have considered what's written vrs what I have witnessed and experienced in my own life and found it true. And that's not all. I have tested and tried the teachings within its pages as well and found the results to match in each circumstance. This reply is getting a little too long for my phone. I will have to continue in another post. Thank you for your patience..Blessings..
  16. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I am perhaps naive but far from inexperienced or young. The fact that I do not or you do not see evil people suffer does not mean they do not. I would like to have all imprisoned or worse - but I do believe a person own mind can met out worse punishment than any judge or jury. Likely some (or many - I do not know) have no conscience at all - but I know I have always punished myself worse than any other human could when I do what I know to be wrong. I think a very large percentage of people that never get "caught" at even small things feel the same about them. I recall things I simply said that were unkind to my wife or 20 years ago and still feel bad - karma does not mean on public display for all to see....
  17. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    Hello again Bhawk. In order to answer you to the best of my ability please do provide the verses. I truly don't mind explaining anything about its teachings or words. I prefer to do so for those who actually care to hear it vrs those who just want to argue. Seeing that you are truly interested, or seem to be. Bring it on! :)

    Also I curious about something. Did you read the entire Bible, or did you skip around??? I have found that most only read the last part of the Bible, they jump around, or they begin and then quit as soon as they read something that they find offensive. Which one have you done? If you read it all the way through. How long did it take you? I ask these things because I am honestly having a hard time believing that you have read it. It does matter if you have read it front to back because everything is pretty self explanatory. If you read it cover to cover, now just reading the last part of any book can cause misunderstandings. Even reading one part way still doesn't relay the whole message from the author. This can be said about any and all books ever written throughout history.
  18. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    I agree. It is a huge assumption that anyone gets away with anything. I have yet to meet a person that didn't suffer at all from anything. I not only believe that those who choose to do wrong pay for it in some way while they are living, but I know! I was a bad little kid and I participated in many stupid and criminal things. I always got what I gave. I stole things and was stolen from. I treated people like crap, I was treated the same way. Even now, when it's flipped. When I give to those who are in need, when I am in need I am provided for. It works both ways. It's justice that I have been trained in my life to trust through actions not just claims. When you witness and feel things in your own there is no room for doubt. I do not believe there is a human being alive who hasn't experienced what I am describing. This is why people do trust in karma or as one put it the westernized version of it. I just now know it to be divine justice from what I know in the word. I used to label it karma at one point until I found a more credible explanation. Blessings..
  19. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    What is slavery and how did one become a slave? Slaves were poor people who sold themselves or was sold into slavery as children by their parents or previous masters. It is a form of survival, and even today we sell our time for survival. So it would be honest to admit that we are still slaves on some levels. Maybe not on the same level. Slavery has been in practice for decades and even our own modern country had a slavery issue that wasn't that long ago. Sadly slavery is a reality in this life and has been before we were even born.
    Now to the Bible and its instructions on slavery. I searched and found what I believe to be the verses that many have issues with. I am touching base with slavery first. I am afraid no answer is a quick one, but I will do my best to summarize it. Now:
    Yahweh (Mighty One of the Bible), chose a man named Abraham to bless the world through His descendants. Why Abraham believed Yahweh and was faithfully obedient to His ways. It can be kind of hard to explain when you aren't familiar with Yahweh's ways or His character, but I will do what I can. In short, Yahweh chose twelve families that all linked back to Abraham to be Yahweh's special people to reveal who Yahweh is and what He requires from the entire world. Also the original saving pan that was established through animal sacrifice. I am sure this is a whole other can of worms as well. But one subject at a time please.

    It may be shocking to you but eventually these twelve families sold themselves to be slaves in Egypt. Everything was fine at first then not so great when a ruler that hated them came into power. Yahweh freed His people from their oppression and He revealed Himself to them through the man known as Moses. It was through Moses that all the law, statutes, and decrees were given. Including the laws on slavery. You see; when anyone choose to worship Yahweh it was not only a lifestyle change but a cultural one as well. Those who worship Him must do so by completely dedicating their lives to His way of living. He has His own time frame, calender, holy days, and justice system. He made sure to touch base with every subject His people would need instruction in, in order for them to be saved and to save the world as well. That was and is the mission today, that never changed.
  20. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    Leviticus 25:44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen (those outside of the familes), that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. 25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. 25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

    Here they are told that they are allowed to own slaves, but they are instructed they can only own slaves outside of their families. Seeing they were all descendents of one man that left only the people outside of their family. Yahweh has bought them to be His servents, they were not to sell themselves as slaves for this reason. The whole chapter says as much along with other topics.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.