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what's left?

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jake.007

Well-Known Member
#1
what are you supposed to do when you realize that your life is utterly pointless and devoid of any meaning ... when you can no longer avoid the truth that your existence brings nothing but sadness, pain, disappointment to everyone around you and that nothing you do can ever change that ... i have experienced low points in my life before but never like this, when the gauze is lifted and beyond those lows is an endless sea of absolute futility ... when i can see plainly and irrevocably that there is no hope at all, ever, of making any of this better for anyone.
 

Freya

Loves SF
Admin
SF Author
SF Supporter
#2
I think that 'what you are supposed to do' depends very much on 'what happened' that has brought you to this lowest of low points. I am going to track you down on chat.
 

Walker

Admin
SF Social Media
SF Author
SF Supporter
#3
Hi Jake
I realize you've been here a while and have talked to a lot of people feeling the same way as you are right now. I imagine you know there's not a whole lot people here can say when you feel just that bad about things because you genuinely believe that in this moment. I think you also know, though, that you've helped people here, and elsewhere, and literally kept people alive so that makes your life not very pointless at all. I'm sorry that you feel that way today and I genuinely hope that you manage to get past that really soon. We don't know each other but you could inbox me if you feel like it.
 

jake.007

Well-Known Member
#4
thanks very much for responding, Walker and Freya ... i appreciate your insights (although i think you may have grossly overstated things leading to a rather false conclusion)
 

Walker

Admin
SF Social Media
SF Author
SF Supporter
#5
although i think you may have grossly overstated things leading to a rather false conclusion
That's what brains in shit places tell us, right? That others opinions are incorrect when they're actually factually accurate... or even that you've never felt this bad when that sense wears off as time goes on (hopefully this isn't the lowest you've ever felt. If it is then I really hope you get some outside help. You deserve it)
I'm sure that nothing I say is going to help in any practical sense but people are listening - and care.
 

jake.007

Well-Known Member
#6
thank you ... i appreciate you listening but really, your time is better spent on other matters. i will only infuriate you ... i honestly regret having posted and wasting your time already. my analysis of my value (not so much opinion, although one cannot really easily appraise the value of something so intangible as one's life and existence) really is not shaded by my state of mind. it is an objective consideration of relevant factors ... it is, i think, as fact- and evidence-based and accurate as if it had been performed by some third party. and i know outside help is always a very good idea, but i have tried that and it never works ... outside helpers grow weary of me quickly
 

Lara_C

Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#8
my analysis of my value (not so much opinion, although one cannot really easily appraise the value of something so intangible as one's life and existence) really is not shaded by my state of mind. it is an objective consideration of relevant factors ...
What standards are you using to judge the value of anyone's life? Are these valid measures?
 

jake.007

Well-Known Member
#9
i think you may have been misinformed about my ability to argue with people ... you were certainly misinformed as to whether that is a positive trait or skill ... there is a fine line between arguing with someone and just being a disagreeable cur
 

jake.007

Well-Known Member
#10
Lara, i get your point ... appraising the value of anything so intangible as a person's life is not an exercise given to easy formulae ... however, i think that it is possible to look at nearly every person and objectively assess the positive value they bring to their immediate family, their extended family, their friends, those with whom they come in contact on a regular (or at least frequent) basis, their own little slice of society, humanity in general, etc., and i believe that for all but a very, very small group, that positive value will be evident ... not all people will be on the mother theresa end of that spectrum, but almost all will be on the positive side. and anyone on the positive side has value and is important and worthwhile and needs to be nurtured and protected. in contrast, though, those very few people on the negative side of the midpoint (and right now, I can only really think of hitler and me) do not have value.
 

jake.007

Well-Known Member
#12
well ... i have not committed genocide, but i also have not contributed anything good to those around me ... i have not done anything that anyone could fairly say has made life better, easier, happier for another person
 

Lara_C

Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#13
well ... i have not committed genocide, but i also have not contributed anything good to those around me ... i have not done anything that anyone could fairly say has made life better, easier, happier for another person
Have you asked any of them? Maybe there's things they appreciate about you that you're ignoring?
 

jake.007

Well-Known Member
#14
it really isn't a question you can ask people. the vast majority of people are, i think, inherently good and kind and caring and do not like to hurt others. as a result, asking such a question of them will "force" a response intended to make me feel better, even if it is not an entirely truthful response. i can look around myself, fairly and objectively, and see the effect that i have on the lives of others. i can see the hurt and pain and sadness i cause. i do not need their affirmation of that fact because it is obvious, and i do not want to put them in the awkward and painful position of feeling obligated to invent some arguably positive thing they can say about me.
 

Lara_C

Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#15
the vast majority of people are, i think, inherently good and kind and caring and do not like to hurt others
. i can look around myself, fairly and objectively, and see the effect that i have on the lives of others. i can see the hurt and pain and sadness i cause.
Do you think you could be judging yourself by too high a standard of perfection? Even people who are kind and caring and don't set out to intentionally harm people still hurt each other sometimes. Do you think you have no kindness or concern for other people in you that makes you inherently bad? Have you never felt appreciation or love for anyone?
 

jake.007

Well-Known Member
#16
i know that i have no redeeming qualities ... i know that i do not care about anyone other than myself ... the first and only good thing i will have done for the people about which i am supposed to love and care will be to remove myself permanently from their lives.
 

Lara_C

Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#17
the first and only good thing i will have done for the people about which i am supposed to love and care will be to remove myself permanently from their lives.
So you do care about their happiness ? How can you be an inherently bad person then? If they would be happy at your death by suicide are they good people, better than you? Would you be happy if any of them died by suicide? Just trying to understand your thinking.
 

jake.007

Well-Known Member
#18
a single, final, long-overdue good act cannot erase the lifetime of pain and suffering i have inflicted on them (and on everyone who had the misfortune of stumbling into my life) ... but they are good and kind and caring people, and they do not deserve what i have done to them. they will not be glad to know that i have died. i'm sure they would say anything, true or not, to try to prevent it. but the truth of the matter, the incontrovertible truth that i can see so clearly, is that their lives will never be any better, will never approach what they deserve, as long as i am alive. and no, i would be devastated if any of them died (by suicide or any other cause), but they are good people and the world is less for having lost them. in contrast, the world is instantly better with my departure ... addition by subtraction.
 

Lara_C

Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#19
but they are good and kind and caring people, and they do not deserve what i have done to them. they will not be glad to know that i have died. i'm sure they would say anything, true or not, to try to prevent it. but the truth of the matter, the incontrovertible truth that i can see so clearly, is that their lives will never be any better, will never approach what they deserve, as long as i am alive.
It sounds more like they would be devastated to lose you by suicide, not happier. Do they deserve that pain?
 

jake.007

Well-Known Member
#20
they may be sad in the short term, but in the long term their lives will be immeasurably better and happier ... that is what they deserve. any "pain" they experience will be brief and fleeting.
 
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